RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid

RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (Full Version)

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ArtCatDom -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/1/2006 12:57:45 PM)
What about Buckland's big blue book? That seems to a very prevelent text among pagans I've known. (That is to say, I'm curious both on your personal take on it as well as what you view its influence to be.) meow

ArtCatDom -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/1/2006 12:59:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Your probablt right fergus, I'd also add the plethora of DIY books on the market many of which are badly written copied of good teaching texts written by credable practitioners and the modern attitude of the youth of "I want it and I want it now!!!" many refuse to join recognised covens and dont want to be involved in a proven structured system.. shudders Llewellyn .... meow

ArtCatDom -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/1/2006 1:02:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinkee i was raised as a Roman Catholic and am still devote. However, i have put in a call to my favorite priest, to explain/discuss why i am considering converting to Judaism. <My reasons are personal.> Btw, i have not found a very good site on Judaism on the 'net and would prefer not to sound totally ignorant when i first speak to the Rabbi. Can A/anyone recommend a site? Thank Y/you. pinkee Overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism Good run down (Orthodox viewpoint): http://www.jewfaq.org/ Reformed Judaism: http://rj.org/ Almost anything else you'd like to know about it: http://judaism.about.com/ meow

fergus -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/1/2006 7:45:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear I have a gut feeling fergus that you one hell of a teacher be.. Hats off to you.. Wow. thanks! I take that as a HIGH compliment! fergus

fergus -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/1/2006 7:49:18 PM)
Art Cat Dom, Buckland is good. YOu only really need ONE Buckland book as he recycles quite a lot. The blue book is as good a choice as any - another good Buckland one is "Wicca for Life". But like most Wicca from a book ... it can onyl take a person so far. The book learning is good. Learning from a teacher(s) is good ... but nothing replace experiential learning when it comes to spiritual matters. For me, a good Wicca book is fine for the nuts and bolts (the red candle goes here). The BEST books are mythology. Learn about your culture and gods from the source. A good book to help piec together WHY it is important is Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces. fergus

ArtCatDom -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/1/2006 8:52:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fergus Art Cat Dom, Buckland is good. YOu only really need ONE Buckland book as he recycles quite a lot. The blue book is as good a choice as any - another good Buckland one is "Wicca for Life". But like most Wicca from a book ... it can onyl take a person so far. The book learning is good. Learning from a teacher(s) is good ... but nothing replace experiential learning when it comes to spiritual matters. For me, a good Wicca book is fine for the nuts and bolts (the red candle goes here). The BEST books are mythology. Learn about your culture and gods from the source. A good book to help piec together WHY it is important is Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces. fergus The more you post, the deeper my respect grows. Joseph Campbell is fantastic (even though I'm inclined to agree with much of Vonnegut's criticisms). Definately, definately, recommended reading for anyone with an interest in mythology, folklore and religion. meow

Kiokuffiib11 -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/1/2006 8:58:11 PM)
I like DJ Conway's Wicca the complete Craft. It touches on some areas. I don't agree with all her views, but, pretty much alot of her info is very helpful. Also, Buckland's Complete book of Witchcraft has some interesting info in it. But I wouldn't go too much off it, unless you're Gardinarian (SP).

perverseangelic -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/1/2006 9:21:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom shudders Llewellyn .... meow Not -all- Llewellyn books suck. I'm not a Cunningham devotee but his book on Herbs and the one on Gems I rather like. They're fairly comprehensive and useful. Granted, Llewellyn has -also- published a book called _We are All Celts_ (or something) dealing with the fact that human life began in the "celtic cradle of life" in Ireland. I take anything they've published with a grain of salt, but I can't toss 'em out the window all together.

twicehappy -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/2/2006 4:40:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fergus DRUID - the Priestly class of the Ancient Celts. Much is supposed, and not alot known about the ancient druids. There is ALL SORTS of info on the net and in the book stores. Have at it ;) Today - Still a pagan Priest with a stron Celtic vein. Modern Druidry has a showdy past that can go as far back as the masonic orders - though true connection to antiquity is HIGHLY unlikely. Modern Druidry in America starts with Isaac Bonewits in the 1960 and the organization he founded - ADF http://www.adf.org/core/ p.s. religion is like farts. Your own are okay, everyone else's stinks Fergus, 1st from my Mistress (ShiftedJewel) and i you are still a cute one. Some folk’s info is a little off on druidry though. My family on the female side are originally from Ireland, we can trace back 334 years of our history through both verbal and written tradition. We have been practicing druids for the entire traceable time period. We simply define ourselves as holders of the tree knowledge. Basically the knowing of for the most part natural things. Even to this day and age there are women in my family who are considered to be healers and midwives. My granny delivered so many babies in the hills of West Virginia she lost track. There are of course other parts observed but way to lengthy to get into here. The family as a whole when they had to on the surface practiced Catholicism, quite convenient actually most of the religious holidays coincide.

ArtCatDom -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/2/2006 5:32:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kiokuffiib11 I like DJ Conway's Wicca the complete Craft. It touches on some areas. I don't agree with all her views, but, pretty much alot of her info is very helpful. Also, Buckland's Complete book of Witchcraft has some interesting info in it. But I wouldn't go too much off it, unless you're Gardinarian (SP). DJ Conway is an entertaining writer. However, unless you're familiar with the topics she's writing about, it is often difficult to seperate the wheat from the chaff. You can find the same information from other sources without the gilding. Again though, she is an entertaining read and I admit with only small effort you can have a relatively complete set of "nuts and bolts" by reading a couple of her books. My only real issue with her (because really the inaccuracies are harmless) is that her Celtic and Norse Magic books have produced a legion of people who think they believe & practice ancient celtic and norse traditions. The ironic thing about the big blue book is I know far more people of other traditions (including solitary witches) who own it and use it than Gardinarians. (This may be due to the view that Buckland violated secrecy rules and his "betrayal" in forming Saex-Wicca.) Being honest, Buckland lost a lot of my respect when I discovered the "Gypsy" books. They have only a vague resemblence in limited parts to anything the Roma practice and believe. Plus, he's from the other side of the pond and should be damn well aware of the use of the word "Gypsy". (It would be the equivilant of a European author writing a book about African or Afro-Carribean magic and calling it "Nigger Witchcraft and Magic".) meow EDIT: typo

ArtCatDom -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/2/2006 5:35:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: perverseangelic quote: ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom shudders Llewellyn .... meow Not -all- Llewellyn books suck. I'm not a Cunningham devotee but his book on Herbs and the one on Gems I rather like. They're fairly comprehensive and useful. Granted, Llewellyn has -also- published a book called _We are All Celts_ (or something) dealing with the fact that human life began in the "celtic cradle of life" in Ireland. I take anything they've published with a grain of salt, but I can't toss 'em out the window all together. Oh I do not disagree at all. Some Llewellyn books have been absolutely fantastic! It's just unfortunate they have to publish so much ... hm, "material of minimal quality". [:D] meow

Moloch -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/2/2006 6:13:58 AM)
quote: Plus, he's from the other side of the pond and should be damn well aware of the use of the word "Gypsy". (It would be the equivilant of a European author writing a book about African or Afro-Carribean magic and calling it "Nigger Witchcraft and Magic".) meow EDIT: typo kick's ArtCat in his bad knee I trademarked that analogy, you could have atleast quoted the autor. Or did I it was blurry after a couple of shmirnoffs.

Alumbrado -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/2/2006 6:44:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse quote: ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom Do him the courtesy of reading over his posts before jumping the gun. It's no grand secret that Gardner was a member of the OTO (at the least he was initiated into the group, I admit my knowledge of the extant of participation is lacking). He also clearly admits the influence of Crowley on Gardner (and therefore obstensibly, Wicca): http://www.collarchat.com/m_400296/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#401111 meow I did indeed read and it doesn't change the fact that whilst indeed there is an obvious influence he is incorrect in stating that the rede was worded without the harm none proviso in a Wiccan context. Do a little research, and you will find that it wasn't until the 1970s that Gardner's plagiarized wording was promoted as the standardized dogma for the new religion of Wicca...before then it was whatever the people claiming to be Wiccan made of it...and plenty of them initially included Crowley as one of their references. And claiming that the only 'real' Wiccans are the ones who do and say everything according to one doctrine sounds exactly like something a fundamentalist Baptist would say...or a Catholic..or a Muslim...or.... One of the reasons I have no use for any of the made up superstitions and power trips masquerading as religion...whether they are thousands of years old, or cobbled together in the 1950s.... they are all exactly the same....bigots and hypocrites preaching a creed they don't follow, and trying to use their 'beliefs' as a weapon. And they all, of course, claim to be different.[8\|]

ArtCatDom -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/2/2006 6:59:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Do a little research, and you will find that it wasn't until the 1970s that Gardner's plagiarized wording was promoted as the standardized dogma for the new religion of Wicca...before then it was whatever the people claiming to be Wiccan made of it...and plenty of them initially included Crowley as one of their references. And claiming that the only 'real' Wiccans are the ones who do and say everything according to one doctrine sounds exactly like something a fundamentalist Baptist would say...or a Catholic..or a Muslim...or.... One of the reasons I have no use for any of the made up superstitions and power trips masquerading as religion...whether they are thousands of years old, or cobbled together in the 1950s.... they are all exactly the same....bigots and hypocrites preaching a creed they don't follow, and trying to use their 'beliefs' as a weapon. And they all, of course, claim to be different.[8\|] Just for reference, the famous "eight words" couplet we all know was publicly put forward by Valiente in the 60s in a speech and circulated in numerous newsletters as a result at that time. (That is what I uncovered with my research.) meow

fergus -> RE: Pagan, heathen, witch, Wiccan, Druid (6/2/2006 9:50:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: perverseangelic quote: ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom shudders Llewellyn .... meow Not -all- Llewellyn books suck. I'm not a Cunningham devotee but his book on Herbs and the one on Gems I rather like. They're fairly comprehensive and useful. Granted, Llewellyn has -also- published a book called _We are All Celts_ (or something) dealing with the fact that human life began in the "celtic cradle of life" in Ireland. I take anything they've published with a grain of salt, but I can't toss 'em out the window all together. Agreed. It is not that Llewelyn sucks, it is just that they have no quality control. Their first question is "will the book sell?". Well, that means that a Llewelyn book is hit or miss ... not automatically good or bad. Hence, buyer beware. fergus

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