Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women

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MsMacComb -> Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 2:19:02 AM)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20060531/hl_hsn/domesticviolencetakesheavytollonwomen

meatcleaver -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 2:30:53 AM)
If 44% of women experience domestic violence, perhaps the figures are telling us that marriage and couples living together is not a socially worthwhile model. I've never hit a woman in my life but when I was married I felt the claustrophobia and frustration of living with someone and wouldn't do it again. In many ways I still love my first wife and we are great friends and I think not being under the same roof helps that. We did actually split when we were friends and lovers so our relationship didn't actually descend into mutual blame game.

Kedikat -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 2:34:03 AM)
While I agree that women are by far the victims of partner violence. I have seen some of the definitions of violence or abuse that are very broad. Raised voice, as abuse or violence? I would like to see the crieria of the study. Not that it would disprove that women are more often victims, but what is considered abuse? And what percentage of men would be considered abused with the same criteria exactly applied. I hate seeing the numerical results of studies, with no information on the definitions and methods. And studies of one gender/race/sect conducted with no results of the same data from the general world of people. If being green were a terrible burden we could pity the plants and try and help them. But what of the frogs?

Kedikat -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 2:37:56 AM)
By the way..... I have never hit a woman, but have been hit by them. I only ever screamed at a woman, after trying every other way for a longggggg time, and being screamed at often. I never felt abused, I felt sorry for their inability to try and solve things in better ways. And said so long sweetheart.

meatcleaver -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 2:47:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kedikat By the way..... I have never hit a woman, but have been hit by them. I only ever screamed at a woman, after trying every other way for a longggggg time, and being screamed at often. I never felt abused, I felt sorry for their inability to try and solve things in better ways. And said so long sweetheart. Years ago I used to work in the probation service and I can tell you that while female violence rarely hits the headlines and though it is not as wide spread as male violence, it is not uncommon.

meatcleaver -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 2:49:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Kedikat By the way..... I have never hit a woman, but have been hit by them. I only ever screamed at a woman, after trying every other way for a longggggg time, and being screamed at often. I never felt abused, I felt sorry for their inability to try and solve things in better ways. And said so long sweetheart. Years ago I used to work in the probation service and I can tell you that while female violence rarely hits the headlines and though it is not as wide spread as male violence, it is not uncommon. Men who are the victims are not necessarily small and weak and can be quite big and hard but just refuse to strike back.

champagnewishes -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 5:08:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kedikat While I agree that women are by far the victims of partner violence. I have seen some of the definitions of violence or abuse that are very broad. Raised voice, as abuse or violence? I would like to see the crieria of the study. Not that it would disprove that women are more often victims, but what is considered abuse? And what percentage of men would be considered abused with the same criteria exactly applied. I hate seeing the numerical results of studies, with no information on the definitions and methods. And studies of one gender/race/sect conducted with no results of the same data from the general world of people. If being green were a terrible burden we could pity the plants and try and help them. But what of the frogs? The Justice system allows for such a broad interpretation in deeming what is abuse, it would be interesting to know specifically what parameters were used in this study. These numbers are useless without this information. The only value such a potentially broad study has is in its shock value. To take it one step further, not only raising your voice to a partner is one form of abuse, if unmentionables are within hearing distance at the time this occurs, you have now committed child abuse...and these figures will eventually get filtered into another study. I can understand how a broad determination works to the advantage of the courts. What is appalling is the serious consequences and sentences these crimes carry irregardless of their nature but simply by the very guise of falling within the broad definition of abuse. Until the time an attorney can plea-bargain with the DA or you go to trial, you have felony charges pending.. It is my opinion that the courts have opened themselves up to people eager to find a quick and inexpensive divorce. One phone call alleging abuse sets the wheels in motion. One does not even have to file formal charges. Abuse cases in Orange County are skipped past the police department and get sent directly to the DA's office. The DA has up to one year to decides whether there is sufficient evidence to press charges. Evidence typically is the statement taken by the police from the alleged victim while you were being cuffed and placed in their car awaiting a one way trip.... Screaming abuse on a Friday morning will guarantee your spouse a three day jail stay unless they are able to post bond. A restraining order is mandatory and automatically in effect on any potential abuse case…you are handed that paperwork prior to even being processed.. The judge on call will give an OK to a temporary restraining order without due process of the law. Congratulations...you have just evicted your spouse from your home compliments of the Justice system. Bonus...check with family court...your children have now been placed in the sole custody of the alleged victim while you are facing criminal charges...double bonus...run and file that divorce paperwork...with your spouse in jail pending criminal charges, all family court matters are extended indefinitely until which time matters are being resolved in criminal court. This is a great way to make the Family Court Judge privy to the “criminal acts” of your spouse. In the meantime, you now have plenty of bonding time with the children while emptying all joint bank accounts. Wow…pass go and collect $200.00… the restraining order now includes your children. You are not allowed any contact with your children until which time you are able to file, at great expense, an emergency court investigation in hopes of enlightening someone to the fact you are not the monster your spouse has made you out to be. So what is abuse? The person whose leg was broken the week prior and did not call the police? Or the person who called the police after being subjected to loud yelling upon bringing their new friend into the family house? Both fall within the legal definition of abuse...but unless the police are called, one is abuse and the other is simply stupidity.

Level -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 5:13:18 AM)
Would it help in abuse cases (and rape cases) if there were a law in place that said "if you are found guilty of filing a false complaint, you have to serve the same sentence the other person would have if they were found guilty"?

Lashra -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 5:19:17 AM)
I feel very sorry for these women and can only hope that they can find a way out of their abusive situations. Domestic violence isn't a gender thing, I know of women (My own Grandmother as a matter of fact) who beat the shit out of their husbands. No one deserves to be abused and hopefully more programs will be developed to help people get out of these situations and get the abusers the help they need to break the cycle. ~Lashra

leakylee -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 5:23:01 AM)
There should be, because you get to many people doing just that. Filing false charges of abuse, which causes almost as much emotional trauma as the actaul abuse would. But then on the flip you have women that stay in these relationships, that subject their children to it. These children see it year after year, they learn from what they see. It is cycle that is hard to break. So even if the kids are not directly abused, not the direct focus, who suffers in the long run? Is that woman guilt of subjecting her children to that environment by not getting the hell out? lee

meatcleaver -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 5:25:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Would it help in abuse cases (and rape cases) if there were a law in place that said "if you are found guilty of filing a false complaint, you have to serve the same sentence the other person would have if they were found guilty"? There was a case in England a few years ago of a man jailed seven years for rape. It was then discovered the woman had lied ( I forget how) and she was only given a one year jail sentence. That seemed rather odd to me.

givemyall -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 5:46:52 AM)
I was in a very abusive relationship, it wasnt abusive to start with which was the clever bit on his part. I was very outgoing, very outspoken and not the sort of person that would expect herself to be placed in that situation. Everything was fine in the relationship, we had a few normal problems and we seemed to deal with them ok. I was living a long way from home in a new area where I only knew my partner. It all started when he asked me a little question, 'have you got your deodorant on?' - simple enough and of course the answer is yes, but just think about the doubt it put in my mind - ohhh my god do I smell etc. Anyway, things went on as normal until he made another comment on the same sort of lines but a little more personal. With all the little comments I started to feel a little insecure about myself - remember at this point that I had no friends to ask for advice, my only form of communication was the phone - he then started having a go at me for using that. I had no money and was reliant on him at that point and he was making me feel useless. He then hit me very hard one night and then apologized the next day, in high insight I should have walked away at that point - but I dont think I was capable of it - I was so down on myself. The abuse got worse and worse, he put me through windows, locked me in the apartment which was on the 3rd floor - generally used me as his locked up punchbag. On the numerous times he took me to the hospital I still refused to speak up about him - I was so scared of what would happen to me afterwards, because I honestly believed that no one would want me - I was such a horrible person apparantly. I got away from this relationship when believe it or not I got arrested for breach of the peace, vandalism and assault - he had smashed my head into another window and I bit through his hand - I spent the night in the cells and got taken to the court the next morning - I told my scottish lawyer everything and he spoke to the procurator fiscal (sp) on my behalf - they released me without charge. I ended up in hospital that night with a ruptured ectopic pregnancy that landed me on life support - it was one hell of a shock and I think it brought me to my senses - deodorant became the least of my problems! What I am trying to say here is that I dont think anyone goes into one of these relationships as a 'victim' and its not so easy to walk away. Although, before this happened, I guess I was guilty of thinking that the women that put up with violent relationsips were a little silly to let it happen. Im not glad this happened to me, but im happy to have learnt a little more understanding about certain situations. This is the first time I have spoken out about this in public, oooh and it makes me feel soooo much better - sorry to have rambled

mistoferin -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 5:50:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: champagnewishes The Justice system allows for such a broad interpretation in deeming what is abuse, it would be interesting to know specifically what parameters were used in this study. These numbers are useless without this information. The only value such a potentially broad study has is in its shock value. To take it one step further, not only raising your voice to a partner is one form of abuse, if unmentionables are within hearing distance at the time this occurs, you have now committed child abuse...and these figures will eventually get filtered into another study. I can understand how a broad determination works to the advantage of the courts. What is appalling is the serious consequences and sentences these crimes carry irregardless of their nature but simply by the very guise of falling within the broad definition of abuse. Until the time an attorney can plea-bargain with the DA or you go to trial, you have felony charges pending.. It is my opinion that the courts have opened themselves up to people eager to find a quick and inexpensive divorce. One phone call alleging abuse sets the wheels in motion. One does not even have to file formal charges. Abuse cases in Orange County are skipped past the police department and get sent directly to the DA's office. The DA has up to one year to decides whether there is sufficient evidence to press charges. Evidence typically is the statement taken by the police from the alleged victim while you were being cuffed and placed in their car awaiting a one way trip.... Screaming abuse on a Friday morning will guarantee your spouse a three day jail stay unless they are able to post bond. A restraining order is mandatory and automatically in effect on any potential abuse case…you are handed that paperwork prior to even being processed.. The judge on call will give an OK to a temporary restraining order without due process of the law. Congratulations...you have just evicted your spouse from your home compliments of the Justice system. Bonus...check with family court...your children have now been placed in the sole custody of the alleged victim while you are facing criminal charges...double bonus...run and file that divorce paperwork...with your spouse in jail pending criminal charges, all family court matters are extended indefinitely until which time matters are being resolved in criminal court. This is a great way to make the Family Court Judge privy to the “criminal acts” of your spouse. In the meantime, you now have plenty of bonding time with the children while emptying all joint bank accounts. Wow…pass go and collect $200.00… the restraining order now includes your children. You are not allowed any contact with your children until which time you are able to file, at great expense, an emergency court investigation in hopes of enlightening someone to the fact you are not the monster your spouse has made you out to be. So what is abuse? The person whose leg was broken the week prior and did not call the police? Or the person who called the police after being subjected to loud yelling upon bringing their new friend into the family house? Both fall within the legal definition of abuse...but unless the police are called, one is abuse and the other is simply stupidity. champagnewishes, I would really like to know where you got the information that you based this post upon. As someone who worked for a good number of years in a Domestic Violence shelter, both with clients and law enforcement, your depiction seems to be about 180 degrees off of what I saw the reality to be. I know of noone who has ever been jailed for raising their voice. Evidence does not come from a victim statement, and unless there is visible evidence of abuse or admission of the abuser, arrests are not generally made. Actually, at least in this state, the victim has no say whether they wish to prosecute or not, that decision is up to the state. The Prosecutor's office has final say on whether or not they will enforce the charges and seek conviction. They are very selective as they wish to maintain a high rate of conviction of the cases that they follow through on (they are elected officials afterall), so therefore an amazing number of cases are either dropped or plea bargained. Removing an abuser from a home is not quite as easy as you have made it out to be, having children removed from a home practically takes an act of Congress. Could it really be so different in California?

Kedikat -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 6:19:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: givemyall I was in a very abusive relationship, it wasnt abusive to start with which was the clever bit on his part. I was very outgoing, very outspoken and not the sort of person that would expect herself to be placed in that situation. Everything was fine in the relationship, we had a few normal problems and we seemed to deal with them ok. I was living a long way from home in a new area where I only knew my partner. It all started when he asked me a little question, 'have you got your deodorant on?' - simple enough and of course the answer is yes, but just think about the doubt it put in my mind - ohhh my god do I smell etc. Anyway, things went on as normal until he made another comment on the same sort of lines but a little more personal. With all the little comments I started to feel a little insecure about myself - remember at this point that I had no friends to ask for advice, my only form of communication was the phone - he then started having a go at me for using that. I had no money and was reliant on him at that point and he was making me feel useless. He then hit me very hard one night and then apologized the next day, in high insight I should have walked away at that point - but I dont think I was capable of it - I was so down on myself. The abuse got worse and worse, he put me through windows, locked me in the apartment which was on the 3rd floor - generally used me as his locked up punchbag. On the numerous times he took me to the hospital I still refused to speak up about him - I was so scared of what would happen to me afterwards, because I honestly believed that no one would want me - I was such a horrible person apparantly. I got away from this relationship when believe it or not I got arrested for breach of the peace, vandalism and assault - he had smashed my head into another window and I bit through his hand - I spent the night in the cells and got taken to the court the next morning - I told my scottish lawyer everything and he spoke to the procurator fiscal (sp) on my behalf - they released me without charge. I ended up in hospital that night with a ruptured ectopic pregnancy that landed me on life support - it was one hell of a shock and I think it brought me to my senses - deodorant became the least of my problems! What I am trying to say here is that I dont think anyone goes into one of these relationships as a 'victim' and its not so easy to walk away. Although, before this happened, I guess I was guilty of thinking that the women that put up with violent relationsips were a little silly to let it happen. Im not glad this happened to me, but im happy to have learnt a little more understanding about certain situations. This is the first time I have spoken out about this in public, oooh and it makes me feel soooo much better - sorry to have rambled Glad you got it out. Every year there are more options to escape this sort of thing put in place. But just having a place to go and support once there, seems to not be enough. So many folks linger till a bitter end before fleeing. What could have got you out sooner? Or was it totally up to you reaching the breaking point ( beyond what I would consider that point )? In Canda in general, there are very immediate escape routes. You don't even have to press charges and such. Just get to a shelter. Did you know what shelter was there? I suppose you did not go into the relationship as this sort of victim. But do you think there might be some who are in such a mode of being? A victim that requires victimizing? I have not met anyone to this extreme, but I have met some " drama queens " that seem to feed off of life being such a distress for them. Not all females either.

givemyall -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 6:41:45 AM)
Yes I do think that there are drama queens out there that thrive in this type of environment - I cant say that I understand them, but I am sure that there is a deep seated reason as to why they behave in this manner. I was aware that there was help, but this man that I was with had made me believe that what was happening was my fault, it would have been the case of why would I ask for help when its me causing the problem. As I said, what he did was very clever and its very scary to think that his line of work was within psychiatry.

Kedikat -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 6:56:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: givemyall Yes I do think that there are drama queens out there that thrive in this type of environment - I cant say that I understand them, but I am sure that there is a deep seated reason as to why they behave in this manner. I was aware that there was help, but this man that I was with had made me believe that what was happening was my fault, it would have been the case of why would I ask for help when its me causing the problem. As I said, what he did was very clever and its very scary to think that his line of work was within psychiatry. That line of work is native to all of us as human beings. But some are specialists for good or bad. And some without the diploma on the wall can be best at utilizing the knowledge, for good or bad. After browsing your profile, I am wondering how I might manipulate you all the way here.

pinkee -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 7:04:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kedikat While I agree that women are by far the victims of partner violence. I have seen some of the definitions of violence or abuse that are very broad. Raised voice, as abuse or violence? I would like to see the crieria of the study. Not that it would disprove that women are more often victims, but what is considered abuse? And what percentage of men would be considered abused with the same criteria exactly applied. I hate seeing the numerical results of studies, with no information on the definitions and methods. And studies of one gender/race/sect conducted with no results of the same data from the general world of people. If being green were a terrible burden we could pity the plants and try and help them. But what of the frogs? FBI crime statistics would not be of any use, but possibly the Violence Against Women's Act has a reporting proviso. Too lazy to research it. Frankly, this whole topic is misnamed; Men are victims of domestic violence as well. Also, i'm not certain if the Act has a definition of "domestic violence" or if it is in the eyes of the police who respond. Again, very lazy today. pinkee

champagnewishes -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 2:23:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin champagnewishes, I would really like to know where you got the information that you based this post upon. As someone who worked for a good number of years in a Domestic Violence shelter, both with clients and law enforcement, your depiction seems to be about 180 degrees off of what I saw the reality to be. I know of noone who has ever been jailed for raising their voice. Evidence does not come from a victim statement, and unless there is visible evidence of abuse or admission of the abuser, arrests are not generally made. Actually, at least in this state, the victim has no say whether they wish to prosecute or not, that decision is up to the state. The Prosecutor's office has final say on whether or not they will enforce the charges and seek conviction. They are very selective as they wish to maintain a high rate of conviction of the cases that they follow through on (they are elected officials afterall), so therefore an amazing number of cases are either dropped or plea bargained. Removing an abuser from a home is not quite as easy as you have made it out to be, having children removed from a home practically takes an act of Congress. Could it really be so different in California? mistoferin, i appreciate the fact that you question the plausibility of my post. Five years ago, i would have had serious doubt as to the validity of such an occurrence happening. Rereading my post which was made in the wee hours of the night, i find i probably was not clear on many of the details that transpired. The bottom line is domestic violence is not a new problem, but an old one that law enforcement have been reluctant to acknowledge. It was not until such high profile cases such as the OJ Trial, that law enforcement officials began to see a need to adopt policies specific to domestic violence in order to not only prevent such incidents but to protect their departments from any liability that may arise down the road by not taking effective action. In an effort to communicate the seriousness of domestic violence, a "zero tolerance" policy was adopted...(I am only aware of the policy that was adopted by Orange County law enforcement agencies, not law enforcement agencies in general). Although this may sound very clear cut on the surface the reality is these policies are ambiguous. Males alleging abuse is new area of consideration. There is a lack of presidents for charging these cases. I was first made aware of this policy one night when my ex returned home intoxicated. I am a very passive person and go to great lengths to avoid confrontation. When things began to escalate, i called 911. I wasn't afraid of the ex nor did i truly believe i was in any physical harm. I needed an intervention. I explained all of this to the officers when they arrived. We were placed in opposite sides of the house and questioned. I explained i was in no harm, he had not touched me physically but i had felt extreme measure had been needed to cool the situation down. Yes i realize police officers are not marriage counselors but at 3:00 am i felt i had no other resources available. As i became increasingly distraught, i called 911 for help. I was then told that my spouse claimed i had pushed him. (After everything was said and done, he swears he made no such claim) Unless i had something more concrete in regards to his actions, they would have no choice but to take me downtown. I panicked and told them i had feared he may have done bodily harm. A high priced attorney with 32 years of trying court cases in OC was able to get the charges dropped. This was an eye opening experience but paled in comparison to later events. Forward three years...I became a victim at the hands of my husband and then a victim of the criminal system. Call me naive, I had faith in the system and even as a series of unbelievable events unfolded before me, i continued to believe that justice would be served. How wrong i was. What i witnessed was a team of attorneys use an ambiguous policy to their advantage as they proceeded with the task they were being paid top dollar to do. Everything happens for a reason and i realized the reason after everything was said and done. Through several court ordered classes, i met other woman who were in similar situations...albeit not to the degree i had become a victim, but a victim none the less. They were not victims of physical abuse but victims of the system's shortcomings and of their opportunistic spouses with their high priced attorneys. Not easy to remove someone from their home? It was very easy as once i posted bail and was released from jail, a restraining order was in place preventing me from going within 100 yards of my own house. The children were not removed but the restraining order covered contact with all occupants residing at that address. I was also prohibited from removing any contents of the house...clothing, money, personal belongings....my car. My options limited after paying an attorney 5k. I could plead guilty to a charge of domestic violence, take four 52 week classes at my own expense, community service and informal probation or i could pay an additional 10k to go to trial with the possibility of facing one year in jail. I had already dropped a bundle on a divorce attorney. I had no place to live, no vehicle and no access to my bank accounts...i had no option. I stood before a judge and pled guilty to a charge for a crime i did not committ. At that point, i realized what had transpired. I never stood a chance from the very beginning. Keep in mind that everything occurring in criminal court has an equal or greater effect on decisions being made in family court. To this day, i am still hit with the reprocussions of this event. I have a great need to turn my negative situation into something positive. I was emotionally and mentally abused by the end of my experience… My own self worth had vanished as i faced the realization that i was a criminal. I can’t help but feel other’s would have collapsed under such an experience. I will not find peace until i am able to help others who find themselves caught up in the nightmare of abuse that I found myself in….and so nicely done, within a legal manner .

caitlyn -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 2:57:21 PM)
Most of the cases where someone is actually arrested for verbal abuse, are in instances when this person has previously be involved in physical abuse or made death threats. Once someone has beat the holy shit out of you once or twice, they really only have to yell after that.

mistoferin -> RE: Domestic Violence Takes Heavy Toll on Women (6/1/2006 3:21:44 PM)
Please do not misunderstand what I am about to say. I do not doubt the validity of your story. I have seen unimaginable things in the court systems....and I am not their biggest fan. However, I can certainly not make any type of informed judgement of the legal stance of the state of California in regard to issues of Domestic Violence based solely upon your personal experience. I am sorry that you had the experience you did....it is certainly not right. However, unless I read wrong arrests were made because the two of you made statements like "She pushed me" and " I was in fear of great bodily harm", not for verbal abuse. Zero tolerance policies were not put in place because of OJ Simpson, although that event in California may have had some influence. They were put in place because cops were tired of risking their lives going into domestic disputes only to have the woman, bruised and bleeding, refuse to prosecute once she began to contemplate the loss of income she would sustain while her mate was in jail, or how she would not be able to cover his absence and would surely face embarassment. They were put in place because prosecutors were tired of women calling their office within a few days of the arrest to have the charges dropped....once the fear level dropped, or he had called home to say how sorry he was and it would NEVER happen again, or when they realized that he WOULD one coming home when day and that might prove to be the worst day of their lives. They were tired of putting victims on the stand who refused to testify. They were tired of having the abusers bailing themselves out and going home and retaliating against the victim for having them arrested. So they created zero tolerance laws, most states now have them in some form, to take the decision to prosecute out of the hands of the victim and eliminate all of the "what ifs". As I said, I am sorry that you had the experience you did. It is not what is typical though in my experience and I have seen hundreds if not thousands of cases first hand.

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