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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 7:08:59 PM   
VideoAdminGamma


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Hi everyone! Posters can either stay on the topic, or look for another post to comment on. I thank everyone in advance for their cooperation.

Thank you for your contribution to the forums,
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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 7:11:53 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Maybe I'm just one of those wierd non FOX or MSLSD watching people that makes up my own mind who actually has a degree in biology. (grad work as well).

Am I propaganda proof? Nope. I just don't swallow the crap as readily as most.

As for my assertion that oil is finite and important to our industrial survival, will you dispute that?

Will you also dispute that if we were able to become independent of OPEC things would be a lot more prosperous in this country?

OPEC is right now performing serious CBT on the American public. We can drill our brains out and be free of their shackles for a few decades or we can become independent of petroleum based energy and be free of them forever.

Propaganda isn't just a left wing practice. Believe it or not, the Right does it as well and there's a lot of folk here who swallow it as readily as a 5# brown eating one of my cone-head olive wolly buggers.

Hill,

I'm not trying to argue global warming, the pros and cons of the use of oil and its impact on the US.

I'm simply saying that the piece does tend to reinforce a certain belief system.  And, I believe, much of that belief system is from a certain political perspective and ideology, hence it can be qualified as "propaganda".

Of course, "propaganda" is neither good nor bad.  You could even truthfully call it "education" (or "re-education"), or any other word or phrase that concerns affecting peoples' minds.

My point was that, yes indeed, you could classify the article as a well done piece of propaganda, and yes, you can consider it re-education.

Just as you can about a lot of articles from all sides of the political spectrum.

Firm


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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 7:17:40 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Unless you read a different article, there was no "Global Warming". There was no "AGW" mentioned at all. There was only "Changing climate.


William,

It was the sob stories about the starving owls and the one that was shot right before the climate change part that makes it propaganda.

It invokes an emotional response.

Everyone feels bad for the poor little owls and the problem must be that climate change is evil. Therefore if we must stop the climate change.



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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 7:20:55 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Maybe I'm just one of those wierd non FOX or MSLSD watching people that makes up my own mind who actually has a degree in biology. (grad work as well).

Am I propaganda proof? Nope. I just don't swallow the crap as readily as most.

As for my assertion that oil is finite and important to our industrial survival, will you dispute that?

Will you also dispute that if we were able to become independent of OPEC things would be a lot more prosperous in this country?

OPEC is right now performing serious CBT on the American public. We can drill our brains out and be free of their shackles for a few decades or we can become independent of petroleum based energy and be free of them forever.

Propaganda isn't just a left wing practice. Believe it or not, the Right does it as well and there's a lot of folk here who swallow it as readily as a 5# brown eating one of my cone-head olive wolly buggers.

Hill,

I'm not trying to argue global warming, the pros and cons of the use of oil and its impact on the US.

I'm simply saying that the piece does tend to reinforce a certain belief system.  And, I believe, much of that belief system is from a certain political perspective and ideology, hence it can be qualified as "propaganda".

Of course, "propaganda" is neither good nor bad.  You could even truthfully call it "education" (or "re-education"), or any other word or phrase that concerns affecting peoples' minds.

My point was that, yes indeed, you could classify the article as a well done piece of propaganda, and yes, you can consider it re-education.

Just as you can about a lot of articles from all sides of the political spectrum.

Firm


Serious question. Would you say the title of this thread has fuckall to do with the article?

I'll go so far as to guess that the OP didn't even make up the title but was spoon fed it by some propagandist.

Maybe I'm just too analytical.

Author says (x is happening) (Y caused x) (Z is the ramifications)

(A MAY have caused Y but that is pure speculation)

Again, even Exxon/Mobile doesn't dispute that things are changing. Hell, they're making plans to drill in places that are now covered with ice and hoping to make a big profit. I have daffodils blooming right now in my front yard. Historically, that's a March occurance.

The Russians are right now looking to extend territorial claims to seabed that has been under the ice cap for millenia so they can exploit the mineral wealth.

I go back to my initial claim that some people in their ignorance see a liberal behind every tree.



< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/28/2012 7:31:22 PM >

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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 7:45:20 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

If anyone posting knew fuck-all about population biology, (loong and short tern fluctuations) it would make a lot more sense to you.

Perhaps I know more than you realize, Hill.

Doesn't invalidate the observation.

Bottom line, an interesting article with a propaganda spin:

He said snowy owl populations are believed to be in an overall decline, possibly because a changing climate has lessened the abundance of vegetation like grasses that lemmings rely on.

This winter's snowy owl outbreak, with multiple sightings as far south as Oklahoma, remains largely a mystery of nature.

"There's a lot of speculation. As far as hard evidence, we really don't know," Holt said.

And if Holt, a researcher who has spent two decades in the Arctic studying the owls "doesn't know" and calls it "speculation", then, why does his words, and the end of the article lead the gentle reader to conclude that "global warming" or "AGW" or "Climate Change" or whatever it is called today a factor in this?

Firm


I agree. This relates perfectly with a president who the right believes is a socialist [sic] , that he possibly an anti-colonialist along with speculation he is a muslim from Kenya.

That the right continues to demonstrate and abundance of overall ignorance is...largely a mystery of politics and for 30 years or more.

As for hard evidence...there is plenty.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 1/28/2012 7:47:59 PM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:16:15 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

If anyone posting knew fuck-all about population biology, (loong and short tern fluctuations) it would make a lot more sense to you.

Perhaps I know more than you realize, Hill.

Doesn't invalidate the observation.

Bottom line, an interesting article with a propaganda spin:

He said snowy owl populations are believed to be in an overall decline, possibly because a changing climate has lessened the abundance of vegetation like grasses that lemmings rely on.

This winter's snowy owl outbreak, with multiple sightings as far south as Oklahoma, remains largely a mystery of nature.

"There's a lot of speculation. As far as hard evidence, we really don't know," Holt said.

And if Holt, a researcher who has spent two decades in the Arctic studying the owls "doesn't know" and calls it "speculation", then, why does his words, and the end of the article lead the gentle reader to conclude that "global warming" or "AGW" or "Climate Change" or whatever it is called today a factor in this?

I agree. This relates perfectly with a president who the right believes is a socialist [sic] , that he possibly an anti-colonialist along with speculation he is a muslim from Kenya.

That the right continues to demonstrate and abundance of overall ignorance is...largely a mystery of politics and for 30 years or more.

As for hard evidence...there is plenty.

A gratuitous political attack against those who disagree with you, in an attempt to stir shit, if I ever saw one.

I guess it's better to express that venom here, than on your neighbors.

Firm


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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:20:25 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

A gratuitous political attack against those who disagree with you, in an attempt to stir shit, if I ever saw one.

I guess it's better to express that venom here, than on your neighbors.

Firm


I'm glad someone was able to figure out what he was trying to say.

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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:25:26 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Serious question. Would you say the title of this thread has fuckall to do with the article?

Yes.

He is making a point about that kind of reporting.  In that sense, and for that reason, the title is perfectly valid.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'll go so far as to guess that the OP didn't even make up the title but was spoon fed it by some propagandist.

Perhaps.  Most likely not.  But your assumption says as much about you, as it does about him, yanno, Hill.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Maybe I'm just too analytical.

Author says (x is happening) (Y caused x) (Z is the ramifications)

(A MAY have caused Y but that is pure speculation)

Sometimes being too analytical can be a shortcoming when it comes to this type of "up is down, left is right, front is back" type of thinking.  This kind of non-linear, come-at-it-sidewise methodology isn't always A>B therefore C.

There is a logic to it, but it is the logic of emotions, association and irrationality.  At our core, men aren't rational animals as much as we like to think we are.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Again, even Exxon/Mobile doesn't dispute that things are changing. Hell, they're making plans to drill in places that are now covered with ice and hoping to make a big profit. I have daffodils blooming right now in my front yard. Historically, that's a March occurance.

The Russians are right now looking to extend territorial claims to seabed that has been under the ice cap for millenia so they can exploit the mineral wealth.

Gist for another thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I go back to my initial claim that some people in their ignorance see a liberal behind every tree.

Well, there are liberals behind every tree.  Isn't that why they are called "tree huggers"? 

Firm


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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:26:10 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Bravo Firm, but hardly fair - youre hardly the "twue believer" target audience

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Typical example:

A lovely article about

quote:

Snowy owls soar south from Arctic in rare mass migration

Is filled with mindless far-left propaganda

Question is, who can spot the major inconsistency... 


An especially plentiful supply of lemmings last season likely led to a population boom among owls that resulted in each breeding pair hatching as many as seven offspring. That compares to a typical clutch size of no more than two, Holt said.


Greater competition this year for food in the Far North by the booming bird population may have then driven mostly younger, male owls much farther south than normal.


...


He said snowy owl populations are believed to be in an overall decline, possibly because a changing climate has lessened the abundance of vegetation like grasses that lemmings rely on

Firm



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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:27:27 PM   
VideoAdminGamma


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Stay on topic. If you would like a copy of your post, and did not receive mail, just let me know.

Thank you for your contribution to the forums,
VideoAdminGamma

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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:32:22 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Serious question. Would you say the title of this thread has fuckall to do with the article?

Yes.

He is making a point about that kind of reporting.  In that sense, and for that reason, the title is perfectly valid.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'll go so far as to guess that the OP didn't even make up the title but was spoon fed it by some propagandist.

Perhaps.  Most likely not.  But your assumption says as much about you, as it does about him, yanno, Hill.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Maybe I'm just too analytical.

Author says (x is happening) (Y caused x) (Z is the ramifications)

(A MAY have caused Y but that is pure speculation)

Sometimes being too analytical can be a shortcoming when it comes to this type of "up is down, left is right, front is back" type of thinking.  This kind of non-linear, come-at-it-sidewise methodology isn't always A>B therefore C.

There is a logic to it, but it is the logic of emotions, association and irrationality.  At our core, men aren't rational animals as much as we like to think we are.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Again, even Exxon/Mobile doesn't dispute that things are changing. Hell, they're making plans to drill in places that are now covered with ice and hoping to make a big profit. I have daffodils blooming right now in my front yard. Historically, that's a March occurance.

The Russians are right now looking to extend territorial claims to seabed that has been under the ice cap for millenia so they can exploit the mineral wealth.

Gist for another thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I go back to my initial claim that some people in their ignorance see a liberal behind every tree.

Well, there are liberals behind every tree.  Isn't that why they are called "tree huggers"? 

Firm


I'll take em 1 by one.

The reporting on the article is pure facts and the author even made a point of not drawing possibly invalid conclusions.

My assumptions of the OP and motivations are based on observations of several thousand very consistent and predicatable posts. With a thousand data points pointing linearly in one direstion, you can make a very good prediction where # 1001 will be located.

My analysis of the situation has zero emotion. I realize that isn't a common thing.

Russian and Big oil looking to exploit seabed resources in areas previously (and presently) icebound is definitely good for another thread.

Lastly. If they're hugging trees, they're wrapped all around em, not behind em silly.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/28/2012 8:44:14 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:33:51 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Unless you read a different article, there was no "Global Warming". There was no "AGW" mentioned at all. There was only "Changing climate.


William,

It was the sob stories about the starving owls and the one that was shot right before the climate change part that makes it propaganda.

It invokes an emotional response.

Everyone feels bad for the poor little owls and the problem must be that climate change is evil. Therefore if we must stop the climate change.

Very good analysis, Aylee.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:39:14 PM   
SternSkipper


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Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

Again. NOWHERE does the article say "Global Warming"

NOWHERE does it say anything manmade caused it.


Wish I'd been on earlier. Would have been a good investment to start a pool on how many times you were going to have to repeat yourself before it sunk in.
   And since when does this become an opportunity to 'interrogate' folks for opposing views? And for what purpose. The attempted misuse of the article by the op was pointed out and adequately quantified. Somebody got twitchy cause the word climate was used, and they espoused a theory that was based on their apparent misunderstanding of the article rather understanding it.



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RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:39:16 PM   
coyotesub315


Posts: 8
Joined: 1/21/2011
Status: offline 		As far as the article  went, it was nowhere near as bad or as blatant in pushing any one political view.  I will say that both ends of the political spectrum do like to push their particular brand of insanity, but it is nothing new. look up "yellow journalism" if you don't believe me.

As for the rest of this thread,  it seems to fall into the normal right versus left argument That just annoys  the daylights out of me. And to be clear, it is the "everything side A says is true and everything side B says is false, and anyone supporting the other side is a radical or brainwashed."

Both sides have good and bad ideas, and both sides use a lot of smoke and mirrors.  Use multiple sources people, preferably ones that have different views, and then make up your own mind.  

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:42:52 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Unless you read a different article, there was no "Global Warming". There was no "AGW" mentioned at all. There was only "Changing climate.


William,

It was the sob stories about the starving owls and the one that was shot right before the climate change part that makes it propaganda.

It invokes an emotional response.

Everyone feels bad for the poor little owls and the problem must be that climate change is evil. Therefore if we must stop the climate change.



That's the problem with my background. If an organism becomes over populated, it starves. End of story. Scavengers have a field day. There's no emotion to population biology or any other subgrouping. We don't anthromorphize our research subjects. When I was on a beach cutting tissue samples out of a dead beached whale and someone would look and say awwwww he's so cuuuuute, I'd pull blood soaked arms with a handfull of stomach contents out, dump em in the cooler and look at her like she grew a second head. "It's not cute lady. It's a 12 meter Physeter catodon with 20 kilos of squid beaks in it's stomach that I need to collect now would you please step away."

The author is a biologist and you and the OP are placing your emotions and motivations on him. Strawmanning from thousands of miles away.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:49:08 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'll take em 1 by one.

The reporting on the article is pure facts and the author even made a point of not drawing possibly invalid conclusions.
...

My analysis of the situation has zero emotion. I realize that isn't a common thing.

(I've concatenated two of your sentences to reflect my understanding.  If I'm taking it wrong, please correct.)

You aren't really the "target audience" of the article.  You have expertise in the field, and lots of issues that you know about, you will fill in, or disregard the generalities because you realize how much data has to be or could be behind the fuller story.

You miss the emotional appeal to people who don't have your expertise.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

My assumptions of the OP and motivations are based on observations of several thousand very consistent and predicatable posts. With a thousand data points pointing linearly in one direstion, you can make a very good prediction where # 1001 will be located.

hmmm ...

There are several ways I could respond to this.  Let me try three:

1.  Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

2.  Does it matter what the "motivations" of the OP are?  Personally, I'd recommend that if he angers you, or you feel his posts aren't worth reading - don't.  I have several people on hide, and my experience in the forum is the better for that.

3.  I personally believe that you have followed along with a group of other posters into a false constructed social understanding of the OP.   Or at least you have bought into the reality of a group of other posters who have taken it upon themselves to savage him an a regular basis, mis-interpret almost everything he says, fail to fully consider anything he does says and who treat him badly at every opportunity.  Scapegoating in other words.

On the opposite side, I don't feel like he always takes the best route to get his point across, either, so it's not completely one sided.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Lastly. If they're hugging trees, they're all around em, not behind em silly.

Damn.  Missed that.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:51:35 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
And the pictures reinforce that emotional response. Who could possibly ever hurt those poor little endangered snowy owls which havent been studied? Well, aside from the evil heartless Hawaiian authorities.

Think of those big sad owl eyes. Its much like the latest Coca-cola ad campaign - maybe if we all just drink enough Coca-cola (or Kool-Aid) we can save them from global warming...



quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Unless you read a different article, there was no "Global Warming". There was no "AGW" mentioned at all. There was only "Changing climate.


William,

It was the sob stories about the starving owls and the one that was shot right before the climate change part that makes it propaganda.

It invokes an emotional response.

Everyone feels bad for the poor little owls and the problem must be that climate change is evil. Therefore if we must stop the climate change.

Very good analysis, Aylee.

Firm



< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/28/2012 9:02:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 8:57:13 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


The author is a biologist and you and the OP are placing your emotions and motivations on him. Strawmanning from thousands of miles away.

The author is Laura Zuckerman, a reporter.  She wrote the article.

She quotes a biologist, Holt.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 9:02:17 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And the pictures reinforce that emotional response. Who could possibly ever hurt those poor little endangered snowy owls which havent been studied? Well, aside from the evil heartless Hawaiian authorities.

Think of those big sad owl eyes. Its much like the latest Coca-cola ad campaign - maybe if we all just drink enough Coke (or Kool-Aid) we can save them from global warming...



quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Unless you read a different article, there was no "Global Warming". There was no "AGW" mentioned at all. There was only "Changing climate.


William,

It was the sob stories about the starving owls and the one that was shot right before the climate change part that makes it propaganda.

It invokes an emotional response.

Everyone feels bad for the poor little owls and the problem must be that climate change is evil. Therefore if we must stop the climate change.

Very good analysis, Aylee.

Firm



You should have seen those cute little whales and manatees I used to carve up on the beach. People especially loved it when I'd reach into the bottom of the sample cooler and pull out a ziplok bag with a sandwich in it.

It's animals. They live, they die, they fuck, they eat each other and some of em are tasty.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Reuters Reeducation Kamp - 1/28/2012 9:05:28 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

It is.  But not on Sanity's part, I don't think.

His title is in relation to the fact that the article (and the Reuters News Service) is engaging in propaganda, and is part of the indoctrination process of the "left" in getting their ideas accepted.  Not based on facts, but on "feelings".

Re-education, in a totalitarian sense.

It makes sense.  You don't have to agree, but it is a logical observation, if you understand the historical use of the term.

Firm



the fact that you gotta explain something that simple and draw pictures no less is disturbing.

agreed its totally political! 


_____________________________

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