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Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 1:30:09 PM   
MsLadySue


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Now, before anyone kicks my butt after reading this, I did not write this article. Unfortunately I don't know who the original author is because it's something I copied last year and forgot to add the name. I did not put this under Politics topic on purpose.

This may result in some good discussion or it may cause havoc. I hope it will be taken as an interesting read and not a condemnation of any race or religion. It is intended to start an interesting discussion, nothing more.

So many letter writers have explained how this land is made up of immigrants. Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out to people why today's Canadian is not willing to accept the new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to Canada, people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in Halifax and be documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the ground.

They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times. They made learning English a primary rule in their new Canadian households and some even changed their names to blend in with their new home. They had waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture.

Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no labour laws to protect them. All they had were the skills, craftsmanship and desire they had brought with them to trade for a future of prosperity.

Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. Canadians fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from Germany, Italy, France, Japan, Czechoslovakia, Russia, Sweden, and so many other places.

None of these first generation Canadians ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from. They were Canadians fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan. They were defending the Freedom as one people. When we liberated France, no one in those villages was looking for the Ukrainian-Canadian or the German-Canadian or the Irish-Canadian. The people of France saw only Canadians.

And we carried one flag that represented our country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be a Canadian. They stirred the melting pot into one red and white bowl.

And here we are in 2011 with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes a Canadian passport and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country.

I'm sorry, that's not what being a Canadian all is about. Canadians have been very open-hearted and open-minded regarding immigrants, whether they were fleeing poverty, dictatorship, persecution, or whatever else makes us think of those aforementioned immigrants who truly did ADOPT our country, and our flag and our morals and our customs. And left their wars, hatred, and divisions behind.

I believe that the immigrants who landed in Canada in the 1800's and early 1900's deserve better than that for the toil, hard work and sacrifice those legally searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags, fighting foreign battles on our soil, making Canadians change to suit their religions and cultures, and wanting to change our countries fabric by claiming discrimination when we do not give in to their demands.


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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 2:16:58 PM   
xssve


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It's a tough issue, but when in Rome, etc. There is a significant distinction between immigration and colonization - although the Chinese for example seem to always manage to make it a home away from home without generating too much ill will - I guess I don't know too much about what's going on in Canada at the moment w/regard to immigration.

The US is a little different, we historically and democratically abuse every new wave of immigrants regardless of what they want or where they came from.

< Message edited by xssve -- 2/3/2012 2:17:41 PM >

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 4:13:45 PM   
MsLadySue


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Here they let in everyone to immediately go on our healthcare/welfare/whatever they can get system. I don't know what happened to the sponsorship system that was once in place, where the family was to take care of their own when they moved here. Our govenment seems to think we have a never ending supply of money to dole out to others. Wish they would have as much consideration for 'born in Canada' Canadians ... the homeless, those with so little education they work jobs that barely pay them enough to keep a roof over their head.

If I want to learn how to speak French I have to pay for it. New immigrants can get language training free.

I could say much more but if I elaborate, not only will I get royaly mod smacked, but other posters (if there are any) will rake me over the coals.

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 4:58:13 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Really? A friend of mine married a Canadian and had to wait forever to get proper medical care, no instant social insurance for her!

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 5:36:33 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLadySue
And here we are in 2011 with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes a Canadian passport and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country.


Nup.  I've heard similar said about new immigrants to the UK, and I've always believed it to be nasty, hateful bullshit.  I've always thought, 'How would *you* feel, if you were a new immigrant, whose first language wasn't that of the your host country; if you looked different and had different habits and customs?' 

I think I'd find the experience so very hard.  I'd feel miserable, lost and like an alien.  'My home no longer exists for me'.  I can't imagine how bad that could feel.  (Actually, I can, a bit, because I've had nightmares about it.)

At bottom, though, MsLadySue, I hate the sort of wanker who propounds ideas like you've cited.  They just pick on the people who are already having it the toughest, not the ones who are causing life to be tough for so many people.  They are cowardly, bullying scum - or, perhaps even worse, they are the small, low people who are supporters of cowardly, bullying scum.

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 5:57:54 PM   
Lucylastic


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Ive seen the exact same diatribe for the UK, America, Canada and Australia.
As an immigrant to Canada, its low on facts, its low on truth and its high in racism.


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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 6:01:31 PM   
MsLadySue


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I work for the government and I see how it works. Mind you, I do my job whether I like the rules or not but it's not easy to see the reverse discrimination going on.

It's a problem when the 'laws' of their homeland are put into practice here, such as a man his second wife and son who murdered his first wife and two daughters because they felt those women were living too freely and shaming his family by doing so. Thankfully the three murderers were charged and convicted of first degree murder and will receive 25 years without parole for their actions. It would be nice if people coming to this country would at least obey the laws of their new home.

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 6:02:45 PM   
outhere69


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It's a chain letter, and a very similar one that's tweaked up for America is over at snopes.  I did find a Canadian who posted a rebuttal over at History Is Boring, and there's a wee excerpt below:

"Canadians have not always “been very open-hearted and open-minded regarding immigrants” fleeing anything at all. We had no rules set aside for refugees; instead, we treated them as we would have any other immigrant. Canada was overwhelmingly anti-Semitic in the 30s, and this combination was – literally – death for Jews seeking asylum from the Nazis. We were not alone in our anti-Semitism, but that does not excuse it. Those fleeing poverty usually only found more of the same in Canada, and were deported by the thousands during the Depression."


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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 6:03:38 PM   
Lucylastic


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sharia has no place in canadian law, what the Shafia family did was horriffic and they should get deported as soon as they do ther time in jail
Bastards

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 6:15:43 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLadySue
It's a problem when the 'laws' of their homeland are put into practice here, such as a man his second wife and son who murdered his first wife and two daughters because they felt those women were living too freely and shaming his family by doing so. Thankfully the three murderers were charged and convicted of first degree murder and will receive 25 years without parole for their actions. It would be nice if people coming to this country would at least obey the laws of their new home.


Could we get some proportion on this?  For instance, what proportion of immigrants have committed crimes like this versus indigenous people who've committed similarly ghastly crimes on the basis of whatever crackpot worldview they claim to live by? 



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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 6:24:17 PM   
Yachtie


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There's a difference between emigration from country X to Y and mass migration. Immigration is controllable within the host country; language, learning it's history, assimilating into its customs, etc. Every western nation is demonstrable of that. Dealing with mass immigration is a wholly different animal, where the host country/culture is overwhelmed due to the inability of society to shape it within its identity.

One of the things that highly aided the demise of the Roman Empire was the mass immigration of foreigners. They did not adopt that of their host country, they brought what they left and continued it wholly.

In today's parlance, one sees the waving of foreign flags, the celebration of foreign holidays, multi-lingual government, etc. Much of what Rome experienced is the same as today, primarily being economic. But today there is something added, being the concept of universal tolerance and equality. Thus you see the introduction of foreign laws into the host country.

No nation has ever survived such mass immigration.



< Message edited by Yachtie -- 2/3/2012 6:31:13 PM >

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 6:32:35 PM   
BoxwineForBrunch


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my twice-great paternal grandfather owned a number of textile factories in an insignificant state in new england from which he would periodically shit can most of his workers only to replace them with immigrants for pennies on the dollar. family legend also says he was the first to figure out that if you hired workers from enough different countries the language barrier plus ancient ethnic grudges would keep them from unionizing, but i suspect he got that idea from somebody else (my father's family has never been creative). all the while he was prominent in regional politics and talked up a "fuck the immigrants" platform that emphasized how much worse the then-current wave of immigrants was than the GOOD immigrants who had come to this great land in the past and settled in and worked hard and by god done things right.

he wasn't a racist, mind you. no one has been a racist for a century and a half now. it's just that, you see, we worry....it is so much HARDER for immigrants with dark colored skin to blend in than it was for those with light skin. that isn't racist it's just...a sad fact. and we worry, you see. it is harder for immigrants from strange cultures to blend in than it was for good white sturdy protestant white immigrants from white reasonable white white cultures to blend in. protestant work ethic and whatnot don't you know. we're not racist but we sure wish it was like the good old days and say just between you and me i think we can agree this country was so much better before that kind started coming over and i don't mean anything against the good ones, you know, but a few bad apples give the whole batch a terrible name and it's so awfully hard to tell them apart....say can i freshen your drink and while we're on the subject i've been giving it some thought and you know, this sounds just awful but hear me out...don't jump on me now just hear me out this is just my idea but if you think about it don't you think the slaves in the south really sort of had it better under slavery than now i mean that's just how some people were made to live....

seriously, fuck racist, jingoist, nationalist bullshit and fuck people who try to gussy up the only real ethos that has ever guided capitalist societies which is "i got mine, fuck you."

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 6:39:17 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLadySue

Now, before anyone kicks my butt after reading this, I did not write this article. Unfortunately I don't know who the original author is because it's something I copied last year and forgot to add the name. I did not put this under Politics topic on purpose.

This may result in some good discussion or it may cause havoc. I hope it will be taken as an interesting read and not a condemnation of any race or religion. It is intended to start an interesting discussion, nothing more.

So many letter writers have explained how this land is made up of immigrants. Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out to people why today's Canadian is not willing to accept the new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to Canada, people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in Halifax and be documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the ground.

They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times. They made learning English a primary rule in their new Canadian households and some even changed their names to blend in with their new home. They had waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture.

Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no labour laws to protect them. All they had were the skills, craftsmanship and desire they had brought with them to trade for a future of prosperity.

Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. Canadians fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from Germany, Italy, France, Japan, Czechoslovakia, Russia, Sweden, and so many other places.

None of these first generation Canadians ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from. They were Canadians fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan. They were defending the Freedom as one people. When we liberated France, no one in those villages was looking for the Ukrainian-Canadian or the German-Canadian or the Irish-Canadian. The people of France saw only Canadians.

And we carried one flag that represented our country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be a Canadian. They stirred the melting pot into one red and white bowl.

And here we are in 2011 with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes a Canadian passport and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country.

I'm sorry, that's not what being a Canadian all is about. Canadians have been very open-hearted and open-minded regarding immigrants, whether they were fleeing poverty, dictatorship, persecution, or whatever else makes us think of those aforementioned immigrants who truly did ADOPT our country, and our flag and our morals and our customs. And left their wars, hatred, and divisions behind.

I believe that the immigrants who landed in Canada in the 1800's and early 1900's deserve better than that for the toil, hard work and sacrifice those legally searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags, fighting foreign battles on our soil, making Canadians change to suit their religions and cultures, and wanting to change our countries fabric by claiming discrimination when we do not give in to their demands.


Comments?



Waaaaaaaaaaay the fuck too long.

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 6:45:22 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

There's a difference between emigration from country X to Y and mass migration. Immigration is controllable within the host country; language, learning it's history, assimilating into its customs, etc. Every western nation is demonstrable of that. Dealing with mass immigration is a wholly different animal, where the host country/culture is overwhelmed due to the inability of society to shape it within its identity.

One of the things that highly aided the demise of the Roman Empire was the mass immigration of foreigners. They did not adopt that of their host country, they brought what they left and continued it wholly.

In today's parlance, one sees the waving of foreign flags, the celebration of foreign holidays, multi-lingual government, etc. Much of what Rome experienced is the same as today, primarily being economic. But today there is something added, being the concept of universal tolerance and equality. Thus you see the introduction of foreign laws into the host country.

No nation has ever survived such mass immigration.




Are you saying that this is what happened with the various nations of Native North Americans when the masses of Europeans migrated there a few centuries ago?

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 6:52:25 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

There's a difference between emigration from country X to Y and mass migration. Immigration is controllable within the host country; language, learning it's history, assimilating into its customs, etc. Every western nation is demonstrable of that. Dealing with mass immigration is a wholly different animal, where the host country/culture is overwhelmed due to the inability of society to shape it within its identity.

One of the things that highly aided the demise of the Roman Empire was the mass immigration of foreigners. They did not adopt that of their host country, they brought what they left and continued it wholly.

In today's parlance, one sees the waving of foreign flags, the celebration of foreign holidays, multi-lingual government, etc. Much of what Rome experienced is the same as today, primarily being economic. But today there is something added, being the concept of universal tolerance and equality. Thus you see the introduction of foreign laws into the host country.

No nation has ever survived such mass immigration.




Are you saying that this is what happened with the various nations of Native North Americans when the masses of Europeans migrated there a few centuries ago?


In essence, though the method there would be better characterized as conquest pure and simple. The difference being i.e. the EU is not by strict definition being invaded (example Norman Conquest) but the results are of great similarity.


< Message edited by Yachtie -- 2/3/2012 6:56:02 PM >

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/3/2012 7:17:40 PM   
ashjor911


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as i want to immigrant,
i will wait & see what others say before i made my call.


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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/4/2012 1:24:15 AM   
popeye1250


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Well, things aren't what they "used" to be.
The U.S. is a mature country and we really don't "need" anymore immigration. Especially from third world countries where a sixth grade education is like college there and the average person has little to no skills.
If we need Doctors, Nurses, Engineers we can import them for a time until we don't and then have them return to their home countries. I don't understand why everytime we let someone in it should involve U.S. Citizenship.
Also, we need to end any immigration from Mexico, Central America and the Carribean countries as they're the biggest offenders of our laws.
It's not the 1800's anymore when we needed millions of unskilled laborers. Now we have about 25 million illegal aliens here who are wreaking havoc and cost us $113 B last year and unless our government starts enforcing our laws.
In the 1880's 90% of doctors didn't go to college and if you needed a tooth pulled you went to the barber. A horse and buggy worked very well in those days but not today.
Look at China and Japan, two advanced economic powerhouse countries who don't have any immigration.
If immigration is such a "good" thing then why aren't all countries doing it?

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/4/2012 6:18:13 AM   
xssve


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quote:

seriously, fuck racist, jingoist, nationalist bullshit and fuck people who try to gussy up the only real ethos that has ever guided capitalist societies which is "i got mine, fuck you."
True, a lot of racism is opportunism, political and social, on the right, condescension and feminism on the left.

It all looks like racism from a distance, but that accusation often just masks real issues - i.e., feminisn, which sounds like an accusation, is really just that women are still second class citizens in most cultures around the world, the men don't always adjust to it easily - I mean the whole Sharia thing, the "war on terror" is literally about that, the irony being that the whole "clash of civilizations" meme on the right is essentially a defense of feminism: the radical Salafism/Sharia movement are the social conservatives here, the right standing for liberal values.

Of course, underlying that, is the simple fact that more women in the workforce means a looser labor market, which drives wages down while increasing profits, while the radical Salafists would rather be poor and keep the women at home.

The rest is mostly NIMBYism, and, like you say, I got mine, Jack.


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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/4/2012 6:29:24 AM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well, things aren't what they "used" to be.
The U.S. is a mature country and we really don't "need" anymore immigration. Especially from third world countries where a sixth grade education is like college there and the average person has little to no skills.
If we need Doctors, Nurses, Engineers we can import them for a time until we don't and then have them return to their home countries. I don't understand why everytime we let someone in it should involve U.S. Citizenship.
Also, we need to end any immigration from Mexico, Central America and the Carribean countries as they're the biggest offenders of our laws.
It's not the 1800's anymore when we needed millions of unskilled laborers. Now we have about 25 million illegal aliens here who are wreaking havoc and cost us $113 B last year and unless our government starts enforcing our laws.
In the 1880's 90% of doctors didn't go to college and if you needed a tooth pulled you went to the barber. A horse and buggy worked very well in those days but not today.
Look at China and Japan, two advanced economic powerhouse countries who don't have any immigration.
If immigration is such a "good" thing then why aren't all countries doing it?
Yeah, those damn Mesican women and their foreign ways, their skintight designer jeans, plunging necklines and short shorts - damn them!

Um, no, we need maids and tradesmen - service workers also - when we were at or near peak employment in the Ninties, the Two occupations that were the hardest to fill were office managers (Silicon Valley) and construction workers (everywhere).

That anti-immigration rhetoric is why the pubs tanked the economy rather than risk wage inflation.

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RE: Immigration as it used to be - 2/4/2012 11:39:04 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

It's a chain letter, and a very similar one that's tweaked up for America is over at snopes. 


This one?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/newimmigrants.asp

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

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