quote:

ORIGINAL: Pavel

So yeah.  Why in the spiritual sense, do bad things happen to good people?

quote:

(As an aside for you non-religious people, or folks with beliefs in conflict, please, please please be polite.  The world has enough people burned at the stake/beheaded/thrown to the lions, etc, etc because we can't tolerate other people's faith.  Let's at least pretend to be civil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

I have studied physics, I have studied mathematics, I have studied astrology, I have studied theology.
I lay all my cards at the table of proven science. Yes, I am an atheist. I do not believe that there is a higher power guiding all of us. I don't believe in the devil, I don't believe in angels, I don't believe in 'one all powerful god'. My experience in my short life span has shown me that both god and the devil are used to place blame when things go wrong.
My life is what I make it. I don't attribute my luck to god, and I don't blame the devil when something goes wrong. I place all responsibility at my own feet.
I got where I am today because of ME; and if I fall flat on my face tomorrow, the blame lies with ME also.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

 Until that day arrives, I believe in what I can see, touch, hear, and taste.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pavel

Back when I was a much more pious/self righteous/confused person, my youth pastor told me a joke about "What's the dyslexic atheist looking for?" with the punch line being "dog."  Hence the title of this post.  That and really, who would willingly check a post called "thoughts on God?"

Carrying on in good order however.  I've noticed a fair pile of posts relating to religion and the like on this board in the last few days, and I'm going to jump on the bandwagon.  I'm not exactly a theology student, and I got twitchy in Phil. 101, but I've always been curious as to how people in different faiths and belief systems reconcile when bad stuff happens to good people.
This particular topic was spurred by an article (by the AP) that ran in the Seattle Times tonight that focused on the reactions of people in Indonesia to recent natural disasters and the like.  The reoccurring theme seemed to follow that A. Allah was upset at <insert perceive national failing> and was punishing people (of course, this logic always confused me.  If God/Goddess/Allah/Batman really was pissed off, wouldn't he/she be better off frying the heathens, than his/her possibly slightly lost followers?) or B. Allah was testing the faithful (while this logic is borne out in the Bible, in the story of Job in particular, why would a diety that knows your heart, soul, mind, shoe size really, really need to make your life suck to know that you loved/had faith/didn't eat meat on the wrong day.)


So yeah.  Why in the spiritual sense, do bad things happen to good people?

(As an aside for you non-religious people, or folks with beliefs in conflict, please, please please be polite.  The world has enough people burned at the stake/beheaded/thrown to the lions, etc, etc because we can't tolerate other people's faith.  Let's at least pretend to be civil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pavel

Back when I was a much more pious/self righteous/confused person, my youth pastor told me a joke about "What's the dyslexic atheist looking for?" with the punch line being "dog."  Hence the title of this post.  That and really, who would willingly check a post called "thoughts on God?"

Carrying on in good order however.  I've noticed a fair pile of posts relating to religion and the like on this board in the last few days, and I'm going to jump on the bandwagon.  I'm not exactly a theology student, and I got twitchy in Phil. 101, but I've always been curious as to how people in different faiths and belief systems reconcile when bad stuff happens to good people.
This particular topic was spurred by an article (by the AP) that ran in the Seattle Times tonight that focused on the reactions of people in Indonesia to recent natural disasters and the like.  The reoccurring theme seemed to follow that A. Allah was upset at <insert perceive national failing> and was punishing people (of course, this logic always confused me.  If God/Goddess/Allah/Batman really was pissed off, wouldn't he/she be better off frying the heathens, than his/her possibly slightly lost followers?) or B. Allah was testing the faithful (while this logic is borne out in the Bible, in the story of Job in particular, why would a diety that knows your heart, soul, mind, shoe size really, really need to make your life suck to know that you loved/had faith/didn't eat meat on the wrong day.)


So yeah.  Why in the spiritual sense, do bad things happen to good people?

(As an aside for you non-religious people, or folks with beliefs in conflict, please, please please be polite.  The world has enough people burned at the stake/beheaded/thrown to the lions, etc, etc because we can't tolerate other people's faith.  Let's at least pretend to be civil.

Crikey and here was me thinking the thread was all about "Dog The Bounty Hunter"...... Ahh well back to the glass of port..

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

The reason I don't belong to a Christian-based faith is because I don't want to and cannot believe in a god or a dog who intentionally allows harm to come to innocent people, because all things happen for a reason, or to teach us a lesson, etc.  I don't understand how god could justify or approve of the heinous murder of an innocent person.  Furthermore, the murdered person who could be a caring, loving person who never harmed anyone, yet could still be hellbound, and the murderer could be forgiven and sent to heaven when his time comes.  Yes, it's my opinion... but I don't want to believe anything like that.  Others should believe whatever they choose to believe.

I do believe that if you are a good person, goodness will follow you, and vice-versa. However, we often cannot control what  harm others, nature, or accidents/outside forces do to us.  I believe everyone is responsible for their actions, and what is beyond our own control, is ultimately beyond anyone's/anything's control

Reply was to no one in particular, just the fast reply thing to address the OP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacknblueballs

MistressLorelei's and ArtCatDom's comments both got me to thinking.

The primary reason why i do not subscribe to the Christian-based faith has to do with free will.  God says something along the lines of "worship me, of your own free will.  the temptation to do 'bad' is there, but you should rise above and worship me."  This sounds all nice and good.  However, this god is holding a proverbial gun to my head when this is asked of me.  It is difficult to claim i am offering god my free-willing worship when the alternative - should i decide with my free will to not worship god - is damnation.  God is kind of like a school yard bully:  "You want to give me your lunch money, right?  Willingly, right?  Cuz if you don't, I'm gonna pound the snot out of you."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

I acknowledge and commend you for your beliefs.
 
As I said, I lay my cards at the table of science. One day, IF it is ever shown to me, beyond a doubt, that there is scientific evidence that a higher entity exists, my stance will probably be re-evaluated. Until that day arrives, I believe in what I can see, touch, hear, and taste.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Crikey and here was me thinking the thread was all about "Dog The Bounty Hunter"...... Ahh well back to the glass of port..

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom



Hmm, just some thoughts.

Nothing can be shown beyond all doubt, especially in science.

Much of science is predicated on observations and theories that you cannot perceive with the senses listed.

Again, just some thoughts.

*meow*

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom



Hmm, just some thoughts.

Nothing can be shown beyond all doubt, especially in science.

Much of science is predicated on observations and theories that you cannot perceive with the senses listed.

Again, just some thoughts.

*meow*

I don't think science as ever claimed to prove things beyond doubt but enough to convince us at least temporarily that natural laws react in certain ways, at least enough for many of us to fly in an aeroplane and the like.

Now if a prophet told you to flap your arms and jump off a tall building, I wouldn't recommend it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

I acknowledge and commend you for your beliefs.
 
As I said, I lay my cards at the table of science. One day, IF it is ever shown to me, beyond a doubt, that there is scientific evidence that a higher entity exists, my stance will probably be re-evaluated. Until that day arrives, I believe in what I can see, touch, hear, and taste.

Hmm, just some thoughts.

Nothing can be shown beyond all doubt, especially in science.

Much of science is predicated on observations and theories that you cannot perceive with the senses listed.

Again, just some thoughts.

*meow*

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

I acknowledge and commend you for your beliefs.
 
As I said, I lay my cards at the table of science. One day, IF it is ever shown to me, beyond a doubt, that there is scientific evidence that a higher entity exists, my stance will probably be re-evaluated. Until that day arrives, I believe in what I can see, touch, hear, and taste.

Hmm, just some thoughts.

Nothing can be shown beyond all doubt, especially in science.

Much of science is predicated on observations and theories that you cannot perceive with the senses listed.

Again, just some thoughts.

*meow*

On the contrary, the senses are extremely scientifically based and proven, beyond a doubt.
And yes, while science is based on observations and theories; it is also backed by research and factual data.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

I acknowledge and commend you for your beliefs.
 
As I said, I lay my cards at the table of science. One day, IF it is ever shown to me, beyond a doubt, that there is scientific evidence that a higher entity exists, my stance will probably be re-evaluated. Until that day arrives, I believe in what I can see, touch, hear, and taste.

Hmm, just some thoughts.

Nothing can be shown beyond all doubt, especially in science.

Much of science is predicated on observations and theories that you cannot perceive with the senses listed.

Again, just some thoughts.

*meow*

On the contrary, the senses are extremely scientifically based and proven, beyond a doubt.
And yes, while science is based on observations and theories; it is also backed by research and factual data.

quote:

atheist is simply a parallel term for a parallel group of often extremely overbearing and zealous undoubters who will judge you as atheist if you do not agree with their heartfelt undoubts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

quote:

atheist is simply a parallel term for a parallel group of often extremely overbearing and zealous undoubters who will judge you as atheist if you do not agree with their heartfelt undoubts.

I have to disagree with you. I do not judge any person by their own beliefs. In fact, I embrace others ideals, even when they conflict with mine. I see all sides of the coin; I choose to stand on my side, and others choose to stand on theirs. But that does not mean that I do not see, and comprehend,  all sides.
 
From the sounds of it though, you are having quite the time trying to see past your own superiority. Shame, your arguments could have been constructive; instead they come across as sounding as nothing more than the ramblings of a fanatic.

quote:

Secular humanists (the most vocal and famous of atheists) are generally just as evangelical and irrational as any religious fundementalists.

Very true. I will not argue that point.