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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/12/2012 3:31:02 PM

BenevolentM

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"... the truth will make you free."(1) If Atheists are lovers of truth, I infer from this passage the following prophecy: One day both Atheist and Christian will be saved. There is a parable concerning a son who returned home and his return was welcomed by the father. His brother was uncertain if he should be welcomed. There is scriptural evidence to support the aforementioned thesis. Given that God is an Almighty God, the outrageous is not beyond His purview.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I agree. Admittedly, by saying this I am being fairly cocky, as in confident. Verily I say to you, such evidence exists. The catch is, you have got to believe. Call it the Great Cosmic Fuck Job.

This view is consistent with what is described in the Book of Genesis. Our world was in a sense created by God and Satan. God was the Creator, then came Satan who screwed it up; thus, creation by committee.

What I am claiming here in my exegesis is that the necessity to believe is evil much as the Atheists believe it to be so. The devil mocks us for denying the truth: Moronic mice trapped in a maze, this is man.

(1) John 8:32 New American Standard Bible 1995 http://nasb.scripturetext.com/john/8.htm

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 41

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/12/2012 3:40:09 PM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
It occurred to me that what I wrote deserves its own thread.

I beg to differ.

But,... out of morbid curiosity, which bit did you think deserved its own thread?

quote:

I want to know if Atheists would embrace God if they had proof of His existence?

I think Boxwine kind a nailed this with -

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoxwineForBrunch

if a unicorn started hanging out in my backyard i'd feed it. i'd even buy fancy steaks and shit for it because unicorns are awesome.

is that the question?

I'd do the same. And if yoda popped in for a cup of tea I'd get the best china out. If smurfs set up home in by back-yard I'd give them space.

What the fuck??????????

_____________________________

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Post #: 42

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/12/2012 4:08:01 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

If god is proved then it pretty much eliminates the faith requirement to get into heaven. Without faith all religion ceases to exist.

Religion as we presently understand it. Some have faith in ET. If ET should land on the White House lawn tomorrow, would ET cease to exist?

Since faith in et is not the bassis for et's existence et would not cease to exist...that is pretty straight forward logic and endemic in my statement for you to twist it into a contradictory meaning is more than a little disingenuous.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 43

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/12/2012 4:52:53 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Since faith in et is not the bassis for et's existence et would not cease to exist...that is pretty straight forward logic

If there is a God, faith is not the basis of its existence. THAT is straightforward logic.

K.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 44

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/14/2012 12:39:12 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FemmeDominion

I don't know that "God" desires to be worshiped. Just sayin'

That is an interesting question. What is worship? If having to believe is evil, maybe worship is also evil and the reason why some reject it. They reason why should I have to embrace an evil thing? Like laws being enacted that you must have sex with ET on a yearly basis.

(in reply to FemmeDominion)

Post #: 45

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/14/2012 12:51:20 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoxwineForBrunch

if a unicorn started hanging out in my backyard i'd feed it. i'd even buy fancy steaks and shit for it because unicorns are awesome.

So this is how you would treat a woman? Suppose you wanted to ride the unicorn and she told you, if you wish to ride me, then put out. Would you? Suppose the unicorn was a Domme and thought you should worship her, saying am I not beautiful? Would you refuse. She would tell you that unicorns are special.

< Message edited by BenevolentM -- 2/14/2012 12:55:50 PM >

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Post #: 46

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/14/2012 1:34:15 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Most everyone can't seem to wrap their heads about the possibility something other than the material exists.

Actually, the bulk of western civilization is concerned with pursuits that are not material. Money, power, status and so forth are examples of such. And given the number of people that are outright addicted to the various MMOs out there, it should be trivial to consider the possibility that this universe may simply be a simulation of precisely the same nature as an MMO. If the real (i.e. outside) universe is huge, then maybe every computer "out there" has the power to run a couple of universes like ours. This universe could be a screensaver, and we'd never know.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 47

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/14/2012 3:42:29 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Since faith in et is not the bassis for et's existence et would not cease to exist...that is pretty straight forward logic

If there is a God, faith is not the basis of its existence. THAT is straightforward logic.

K.

If there is a god? Faith is the bassis of it's existence. That is straight forward logic.
If there is a god. Faith is not the bassis of it's existence. That is straight forward logic.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 48

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/14/2012 3:46:01 PM

pyroaquatic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FemmeDominion

I don't know that "God" desires to be worshiped. Just sayin'

Ditto.

God could care less about our plights or worship.

Hypothetically 'God' would need nothing, want nothing, and do absolutely nothing to get absolutely everything.

In fairness my presuppositions are null since we are not at the end of this particular equation yet. To be completely objective in a universe in which we are completely subjective is only likely when we are dead.

If there is such a thing as death.

Of course my theory denotes that 'God' committed suicide and we are currently rebuilding out of the dust of the aftermath. But that is my silly stance on this.

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to FemmeDominion)

Post #: 49

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/14/2012 4:05:00 PM

BenevolentM

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For a Valentine's Day message from BenevolentM see http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4033021.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 50

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/14/2012 4:15:13 PM

hardcybermaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Most everyone can't seem to wrap their heads about the possibility something other than the material exists.

Actually, the bulk of western civilization is concerned with pursuits that are not material. Money, power, status and so forth are examples of such. And given the number of people that are outright addicted to the various MMOs out there, it should be trivial to consider the possibility that this universe may simply be a simulation of precisely the same nature as an MMO. If the real (i.e. outside) universe is huge, then maybe every computer "out there" has the power to run a couple of universes like ours. This universe could be a screensaver, and we'd never know.

Health,
al-Aswad.

Western civilisation is defined by its ridiculous over use of materials. Have a look around you, oh and be healthy too

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vanilla burger flipper

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 51

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/14/2012 4:21:10 PM

kitkat105

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Probably not, you know. I was raised an an Agnostic Catholic and an Atheist. No religion was ever forced on me.. they said it was up to me to decide for myself if I wanted to participate in one. I went through a period between 16-18, desperate, to find a religion that 'fit' me because I thought it'd make life easier. (Dying for help but not knowing how to find it).

I never could find 1 that fit. If you lack faith, it's impossible. But to this day, I still find the idea of religion somewhat romantic and appealing.

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(in reply to hardcybermaster)

Post #: 52

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/14/2012 4:25:48 PM

hardcybermaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitkat105

Probably not, you know. I was raised an an Agnostic Catholic and an Atheist. No religion was ever forced on me.. they said it was up to me to decide for myself if I wanted to participate in one. I went through a period between 16-18, desperate, to find a religion that 'fit' me because I thought it'd make life easier. (Dying for help but not knowing how to find it).

I never could find 1 that fit. If you lack faith, it's impossible. But to this day, I still find the idea of religion somewhat romantic and appealing.

nah fuck it. Religion trades on guilt and fear. You are far better without it

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vanilla burger flipper

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Post #: 53

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/15/2012 12:32:12 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

Religion trades on guilt and fear.

As it seems to me, people who think that their idea of religion represents the One Twue Understanding may fairly be called bigots regardless of whether they're for it or against it.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 2/15/2012 12:50:38 AM >

(in reply to hardcybermaster)

Post #: 54

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/15/2012 5:44:59 AM

Moonhead

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FR:
Yet more "atheism is a religion, just like bald is a hair colour" stuff, then...

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(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 55

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/15/2012 10:44:42 AM

hardcybermaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

Religion trades on guilt and fear.

As it seems to me, people who think that their idea of religion represents the One Twue Understanding may fairly be called bigots regardless of whether they're for it or against it.

K.

Thank you for your kind words. Last time I looked over 3.5 billion people said they followed either the christian or islamic faiths. Now while I agree that some of the basic ideas of not killing/stealing etc and of being good to people,loving your family etc are great and 100% right there is also the fact that most branches of these two faiths also preach about heaven and hell.
Be a good boy/girl and you will go to heaven, be bad and you are sent to hell to burn for eternity. That's not very scary is it? Of course quite often you get the chance to repent your sins too.
So no guilt or fear at all is there?

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Post #: 56

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/15/2012 11:11:27 AM

fucktoyprincess

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To me the issue is not really about embracing God or not.

I honestly feel that if each of us spent less time worrying about what religion different people are following (or whether they are following a religion at all), and spent more time just trying to live a life where they do not cause harm to others (you know, harm of the non-consensual kind) then the world would ultimately be a better place.

I am only interested in a deity that cares about how I've led my life, how I've treated others and not whether or not "I believed". A deity that is going to "punish" people who led good, decent lives and never harmed others, but who did not "believe" in the "correct deity" doesn't strike me as much of a spiritual being. True spirituality ought to be measured by how we behave, particularly with regard to others, not by what we "believe".

I do not fear death. I am happy to let my life stand on its own merits. To me the concept of having chosen the "wrong" deity or refusing to choose any deity is simply not a spiritual inquiry. Spirituality is how one chooses "to be".

_____________________________

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(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 57

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/15/2012 11:22:57 AM

FallynAngyl

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would i worship a god if one was proven to exist?
No.

that's that whole humans have free will thing, I choose not to follow a religion, i choose not to follow social norms, i would not, i repeat NOT
worship anything or anyone.

i find the idea of worshiping a god as silly as worshiping santa, or the easter bunny.

< Message edited by FallynAngyl -- 2/15/2012 11:23:42 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 58

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/15/2012 11:30:39 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

In "Think there is a god and what is your evidence?" I wrote:

quote:

In theory, Atheists would have fewer difficulties, but what you said "I sure as hell won't worship it, but I will believe it because it has been proved."(1) suggests that you do not have a clue. Permit me to explain. Suppose God were a person that knew you better than you know yourself and had the means to fabricate anything including a perfect body, male or female. Are you saying that God would not have what it takes to seduce you if it were so inclined? As an Atheist you have a duty to acknowledge that your reasoning is flawed. Could you resist and why would you want to?

It occurred to me that what I wrote deserves its own thread. I want to know if Atheists would embrace God if they had proof of His existence? It seems likely to me that many of the so called faithful will be cast into Hell due to their unwillingness to accept, as ironic as this may seem, His Word? If God were to appear to them today, they would shun Him. There is a presumption that the nature of God can be discerned by observing His followers.

I cannot blame you if you are skeptical.

(1) I was quoting hardcybermaster. For my original post that included the quote see http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4026915.

I am going to answer before reading what anyone else wrote.

My answer is.......... I don't care. I am sick to death of people caring about other people's personal religious faith or lack there of. I am sick to death of people trying to SHOVE their own personal religious belief system onto others. I am sick to death of people using their religious belief system as a weapon and tool against others. I am sick to death of people demanding their religious beliefs be a part of how MY countries government governs.

I am not an atheist persay but I fully support anyone that identifies as such and understand their belief. I am not any religioun but I fully support the right of all religiouns to exist.

All I ask is that the atheists and religious people stop trying to shove their shit into my life and keep it to themselves.

I will be more than happy to do the same. My religious beliefs are mine.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 59

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/15/2012 1:45:16 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

Last time I looked over 3.5 billion people said they followed either the christian or islamic faiths.

Well that's a nice dance step, but you said religion trades on guilt and fear. Religion, period. Not Christianity and Islam.

Last time I looked, that would leave somewhere around a couple of billion people in for a helluva surprise.

K.

(in reply to hardcybermaster)

Post #: 60

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