Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Turning gold into straw


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Turning gold into straw Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Turning gold into straw - 2/8/2012 8:18:40 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline
A few days ago, I posted in a thread that the repubs would find a way to take the positive employment numbers and spin it as if John Boehner personally created those jobs. Instead, they did me one better, claiming that the numbers are proof positive that Obama should not be president. One should never underestimate the creativity of the Republican Party
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/06/rnc-chairman-reince-priebus-condemns-january-jobs-report-says-improving-economy-should-make-president-obama-un-electable/





_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/8/2012 8:26:45 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
They are still serving this backward-logic........and the cons are still eating and asking for 2nds,long after everyone else has moved on.


I guess this is a symptom of a party in decline.....hoping for bad times, as a campaign strategy.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/8/2012 8:27:02 AM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/8/2012 8:38:54 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
Wall Street is pushing for 13,000 as well for the first time in years.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/8/2012 8:42:00 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
"you spin me right round baby right round", its getting nauseous on the dog n pony show.
They cant deny the improvement, so now they are saying its not fast enough, meanwhile their apology for a candidate selection is running its course nicely. The whole thing should be up for oscar nomination or maybe the razzies. They should all be lined up and zapped for fucking with the world.
To be so completely embarrassed by your whole political party must be sheer hell.
There isnt one who is capable of taking over the job, even IF they wanted it


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/8/2012 8:47:18 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
"You incompetents aren't digging everyone out of the hole we put the nation in, fast enough."

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/8/2012 9:18:24 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
There is a fantasy narrative in the alternate reality conservatives live, that imagines McGrampop would have done better if elected 3 years ago,just by virtue of him being a republi-con (or something dumb like that).

Of course the fantasy narrative doesn`t say exactly how but that matters little in fantasy-land.

All of the con-didates have said they would have let Detroit fail,especially Mittens, who wrote a NY Times Op/Ed calling for allowing Detroit to fail.

Should Willard win the nomination,he`s going to have to answer to that Op/Ed and defend it.


Great thread title,semi-sweet.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/8/2012 10:32:06 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

A few days ago, I posted in a thread that the repubs would find a way to take the positive employment numbers and spin it as if John Boehner personally created those jobs. Instead, they did me one better, claiming that the numbers are proof positive that Obama should not be president. One should never underestimate the creativity of the Republican Party
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/06/rnc-chairman-reince-priebus-condemns-january-jobs-report-says-improving-economy-should-make-president-obama-un-electable/







They keep talking about "jobs" but where are these jobs?
And *when* will they be coming to S. Carolina?
We have a very high unemployment rate in this state some of it due to NAFTA and CAFTA from which they've never recovered from but where are the jobs "that you can pay a mortgage on."

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/8/2012 12:14:02 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
Well pops.....

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/georgia-businessman-refuses-to-hire-until-obama-is-fired/


With the attitude of some of your Obama hater buddies.....not until 2016.......

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/8/2012 9:31:27 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

"You incompetents aren't digging everyone out of the hole we put the nation in, fast enough."


Well put



_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/8/2012 10:01:58 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

where are the jobs "that you can pay a mortgage on.


Lets see, those jobs would be in Germany, The Netherlands, France; you know all those terrible countries that have awful socialist stuff like universal health care and real vacation time.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/9/2012 1:22:20 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
COSTELLO: I want to talk about the unemployment rate in America.

ABBOTT: Good Subject. Terrible Times. It’s 8.3%.

COSTELLO: That many people are out of work?

ABBOTT: No, that’s 16%.

COSTELLO: You just said 8.3%.

ABBOTT: 8.3% Unemployed.

COSTELLO: Right 8.3% out of work.

ABBOTT: No, that’s 16%.

COSTELLO: Okay, so it’s 16% unemployed.

ABBOTT: No, that’s 8.3%…

COSTELLO: WAIT A MINUTE. Is it 8.3% or 16%?

ABBOTT: 8.3% are unemployed. 16% are out of work.

COSTELLO: IF you are out of work you are unemployed.

ABBOTT: No, you can’t count the "Out of Work" as the unemployed. You have to look for work to be unemployed.

COSTELLO: BUT THEY ARE OUT OF WORK!!!

ABBOTT: No, you miss my point.

COSTELLO: What point?

ABBOTT: Someone who doesn’t look for work, can’t be counted with those who look for work. It wouldn’t be fair.

COSTELLO: To who?

ABBOTT: The unemployed.

COSTELLO: But they are ALL out of work.

ABBOTT: No, the unemployed are actively looking for work… Those who are out of work stopped looking. They gave up and if you give up, you are no longer in the ranks of the unemployed.

COSTELLO: So if you’re off the unemployment rolls, that would count as less unemployment?

ABBOTT: Unemployment would go down. Absolutely!

COSTELLO: The unemployment just goes down because you don’t look for work?

ABBOTT: Absolutely it goes down. That’s how you get to 8.3%. Otherwise it would be 16%. You don’t want to read about 16% unemployment do ya?

COSTELLO: That would be frightening.

ABBOTT: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: Wait, I got a question for you. That means there are two ways to bring down the unemployment number?

ABBOTT: Two ways is correct.

COSTELLO: Unemployment can go down if someone gets a job?

ABBOTT: Correct.

COSTELLO: And unemployment can also go down if you stop looking for a job?

ABBOTT: Bingo.

COSTELLO: So there are two ways to bring unemployment down, and the easier of the two is to just stop looking for work.

ABBOTT: Now you’re thinking like an economist.

COSTELLO: I don’t even know what I just said!


_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/9/2012 1:37:08 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline


try 15.1% The least you could do is get the accurate U6 number.

2012 15.1

http://www.portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp

"You spin me right round, baby right round like a record, baby Right round round round"

Oh, and you really should give credit to the writer of the Abbott and Costello bit.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/9/2012 1:39:18 AM >


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/9/2012 6:28:45 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

A few days ago, I posted in a thread that the repubs would find a way to take the positive employment numbers and spin it as if John Boehner personally created those jobs. Instead, they did me one better, claiming that the numbers are proof positive that Obama should not be president. One should never underestimate the creativity of the Republican Party
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/06/rnc-chairman-reince-priebus-condemns-january-jobs-report-says-improving-economy-should-make-president-obama-un-electable/



They keep talking about "jobs" but where are these jobs?
And *when* will they be coming to S. Carolina?
We have a very high unemployment rate in this state some of it due to NAFTA and CAFTA from which they've never recovered from but where are the jobs "that you can pay a mortgage on."

Most favored nation trading status. Sending between 7-9 million jobs to China and more since, to Vietnam and parts east. Yea, I agree. Cut $trillions in taxes, go to two wars, inflation down.....

...so where are the jobs ?

They ain't there partner. Or I should say...they ain't here. Those jobs are way over there and from now on. I am here to make some fucking money and that means looking for slave labor or something that looks very much like it and until the US is finally organized as real fascist capitalist, must go overseas for my labor.

Fuck jobs. Slaves had jobs.

The last thing I do as an employer...is create a job. Demand for my product or service will possibly create a single job but first I will just have my current staff do more and may, may hire a single employee, likely part-time at minimum wage...IF there is too much demand for my existing staff.

But don't hold your breath.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/9/2012 6:35:14 AM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

COSTELLO: I want to talk about the unemployment rate in America.
ABBOTT: Good Subject. Terrible Times. It’s 8.3%.
COSTELLO: That many people are out of work?
ABBOTT: No, that’s 16%.
COSTELLO: You just said 8.3%.
ABBOTT: 8.3% Unemployed.
COSTELLO: Right 8.3% out of work.
ABBOTT: No, that’s 16%.
COSTELLO: Okay, so it’s 16% unemployed.


Wow ... and I thought whoever was teaching you anything was having to resort to Bert and Ernie.



_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/9/2012 6:37:48 AM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

We have a very high unemployment rate in this state some of it due to NAFTA and CAFTA


Do you know WHO to greatest advantage of NAFTA?



_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/9/2012 6:41:14 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
Boy they really get specific with their U categories, but no where does it say how they come up with these numbers. Once you stop collecting unemployment, you have no more contact with the system. So how do they know if you are still looking, if you are discouraged, or you just gave up on it. I am also curious as to how they know which part time workers are doing it because that is the schedule they want or doing it because they can't find full time work which would dump them into U6. Not that I don't trust the government to be honest, just wondering.


The Bureau of Labor Statistics measures employment and unemployment (of those over 16 years of age) using two different labor force surveys conducted by the United States Census Bureau (within the United States Department of Commerce) and/or the Bureau of Labor Statistics (within the United States Department of Labor) that gather employment statistics monthly. The Current Population Survey (CPS), or "Household Survey", conducts a survey based on a sample of 60,000 households. This Survey measures the unemployment rate based on the ILO definition. The data are also used to calculate 5 alternate measures of unemployment as a percentage of the labor force based on different definitions noted as U1 through U6:

U1 : Percentage of labor force unemployed 15 weeks or longer.
U2 : Percentage of labor force who lost jobs or completed temporary work.
U3 : Official unemployment rate per ILO definition.
U4 : U3 + "discouraged workers", or those who have stopped looking for work because current economic conditions make them believe that no work is available for them.
U5 : U4 + other "marginally attached workers", or "loosely attached workers", or those who "would like" and are able to work, but have not looked for work recently.
U6 : U5 + Part time workers who want to work full time, but cannot due to economic reasons.

Below is the overview of these six measures.

U1:

This is the proportion of the civilian labor force that has been unemployed for 15 weeks or longer. This unemployment rate measures workers who are chronically unemployed. During business-cycle expansions, this rate captures structural unemployment. However, during lengthy business-cycle contractions, this rate is also likely to include a significant amount of cyclical unemployment. U1 tends to be relatively small, in the range of 1-2 percent.
U2:

This is the proportion of the civilian labor force that is classified as job losers (workers who have been involuntarily fired or laid off from their jobs) and people who have completed temporary jobs. During business-cycle expansions, this rate is likely to capture some degree of frictional unemployment. However, during business-cycle contractions, this rate is most likely to consist of cyclical unemployment. U2 is larger than U1, but still remains substantially less than the official unemployment rate (U3).
U3:

This is the official unemployment rate, which is the proportion of the civilian labor force that is unemployed but actively seeking employment.
U4:

This is the official unemployment rate that is adjusted for discouraged workers. In other words, discouraged workers are treated just like other workers who are officially classified as unemployed, being included in both the ranks of the unemployed and the labor force. It is technically specified as the proportion of the civilian labor force (plus discouraged workers) that is either unemployed but actively seeking employment or discouraged workers. The addition of discouraged workers generally adds a few tenths of a percentage point to the official unemployment rate.
U5:

This augments U4 by including marginally-attached workers to the unemployment rate calculation. Marginally attached workers are potential workers who have given up seeking employment for various reasons. One of these reasons is that the workers believe such effort would be futile, which places them in the discouraged worker category. Those who have other reasons for not seeking employment are placed in the broader marginally-attached workers category. The addition of marginally-attached workers adds a few more tenths of a percentage point to the official unemployment rate.
U6:

This augments U5 by including part-time workers to the unemployment rate calculation. The addition of part-time workers adds a full 2-3 percentage points to the official unemployment rate. This measure of unemployment is perhaps the most comprehensive measure of labor resource unemployment available.







Who is counted as unemployed?

Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work. Actively looking for work may consist of any of the following activities:

Contacting:
An employer directly or having a job interview
A public or private employment agency
Friends or relatives
A school or university employment center
Sending out resumes or filling out applications
Placing or answering advertisements
Checking union or professional registers
Some other means of active job search





Who is not in the labor force?

Labor force measures are based on the civilian noninstitutional population 16 years old and over. Excluded are persons under 16 years of age, all persons confined to institutions such as nursing homes and prisons, and persons on active duty in the Armed Forces. The labor force is made up of the employed and the unemployed. The remainder—those who have no job and are not looking for one—are counted as "not in the labor force." Many who are not in the labor force are going to school or are retired. Family responsibilities keep others out of the labor force.

Source : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/9/2012 6:41:15 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
the finger paint gave it away?


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/9/2012 6:41:21 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

COSTELLO: I want to talk about the unemployment rate in America.

ABBOTT: Good Subject. Terrible Times. It’s 8.3%.

COSTELLO: That many people are out of work?

ABBOTT: No, that’s 16%.

COSTELLO: You just said 8.3%.

ABBOTT: 8.3% Unemployed.

COSTELLO: Right 8.3% out of work.

ABBOTT: No, that’s 16%.

COSTELLO: Okay, so it’s 16% unemployed.

ABBOTT: No, that’s 8.3%…

COSTELLO: WAIT A MINUTE. Is it 8.3% or 16%?

ABBOTT: 8.3% are unemployed. 16% are out of work.

COSTELLO: IF you are out of work you are unemployed.

ABBOTT: No, you can’t count the "Out of Work" as the unemployed. You have to look for work to be unemployed.

COSTELLO: BUT THEY ARE OUT OF WORK!!!

ABBOTT: No, you miss my point.

COSTELLO: What point?

ABBOTT: Someone who doesn’t look for work, can’t be counted with those who look for work. It wouldn’t be fair.

COSTELLO: To who?

ABBOTT: The unemployed.

COSTELLO: But they are ALL out of work.

ABBOTT: No, the unemployed are actively looking for work… Those who are out of work stopped looking. They gave up and if you give up, you are no longer in the ranks of the unemployed.

COSTELLO: So if you’re off the unemployment rolls, that would count as less unemployment?

ABBOTT: Unemployment would go down. Absolutely!

COSTELLO: The unemployment just goes down because you don’t look for work?

ABBOTT: Absolutely it goes down. That’s how you get to 8.3%. Otherwise it would be 16%. You don’t want to read about 16% unemployment do ya?

COSTELLO: That would be frightening.

ABBOTT: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: Wait, I got a question for you. That means there are two ways to bring down the unemployment number?

ABBOTT: Two ways is correct.

COSTELLO: Unemployment can go down if someone gets a job?

ABBOTT: Correct.

COSTELLO: And unemployment can also go down if you stop looking for a job?

ABBOTT: Bingo.

COSTELLO: So there are two ways to bring unemployment down, and the easier of the two is to just stop looking for work.

ABBOTT: Now you’re thinking like an economist.

COSTELLO: I don’t even know what I just said!


So what are we going to do about this ? I have an idea...let's cut $4 trillion in taxes to our buddies, then borrow to pay for starting two wars, then we borrow to pay for and pass a 1/2 $trillion drug benefit and see what happens.

Good idea, the checks...er jobs should be rolling in. Either way...if they don't, fuck 'em...we are here to make some fucking money and don't give a fuck about jobs even with unemployment at 6% and 12% are out of work and over two terms, will establish a new record low for job creation.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/9/2012 7:27:46 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline
For all of you who have posted how the unemployment rate is calculated, thanks but already know that. I agree, it is a skewed number to look at after 5 years of recession. However, the article I posted talks about jobs added to the economy, which is not so easy to skew. A job is either created, or it isn't. Easy squeazy.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Turning gold into straw - 2/9/2012 9:48:25 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

They keep talking about "jobs" but where are these jobs?

Had you read the link you would know.


And *when* will they be coming to S. Carolina?

Do you need a job? I thought you had bragged about how well off you were.

We have a very high unemployment rate in this state some of it due to NAFTA and CAFTA from which they've never recovered from

Did only demopubs vote for nafta and cafta?

but where are the jobs "that you can pay a mortgage on."

I understand that haliburton is hiring and paying quite well.


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 2/9/2012 9:50:05 AM >

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Turning gold into straw Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109