RE: No one to debate any more

RE: No one to debate any more (Full Version)

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TreasureKY -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 5:54:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Sorry Firm thats not how I read any of those,nor Treasure's either...when someone suggests that it is impossible to have a conversation,or a debate with me,I make certain assumptions about how they feel about what I am bringing to the table.When you mischaracterize my position where the religious right is concerned(that post is still up,go back and read it) twisting my actual position to such a degree as to present a caricature of what I truly feel....I take offence...as a matter of fact I take great offence. Particularly when the folks making such distortion claim to be holders of values that they somehow lead them to think puts them in possession of some sort of moral high ground.Keep laying claim to being above your own biases while your party moves towards ,if not nominating,sending Santurom to the convention in a position to demand editing and tweaking of your parties platform/ Mike... unfortunately, my posts to you were removed because they quoted your own. However, my point then and now is not to say you are incapable of debate; merely that by stooping to the level of suggesting that proper medication for mental health issues is missing, you appear to be following with the seemingly large crowd of posters here who would rather insult and denigrate than actually debate. The OP asks why no one from the right here wants to debate. I gave an answer. It appears you didn't like that answer. If you believe I mis-characterized the more prolific of the left leaning posters here, and erringly placed you in that category, then I invite you to present your position as to how I am wrong. That you chose to insult Firm rather than address his points will be a hard issue to overcome, however. My question is, can you defend your actions? Were you right to say what you did? Did you attempt to debate on an intelligent level? Did you try to defend your position with facts or reason? Or did you simply refuse to debate and dismiss Firm's position with insinuations that he has a mental illness?

FirmhandKY -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 5:56:52 PM)
At least one more post is now gone as well. We've all been "bumped up". I suspect the entire flavor of the thread will be seriously damaged due to the deletes. Not that that is always a bad thing, but in this case, when the discussion is about why debates go bad, and bad posting styles and examples are given in the ongoing discussion, it does tend to disrupt. Firm

slvemike4u -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:02:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Sorry Firm thats not how I read any of those,nor Treasure's either...when someone suggests that it is impossible to have a conversation,or a debate with me,I make certain assumptions about how they feel about what I am bringing to the table.When you mischaracterize my position where the religious right is concerned(that post is still up,go back and read it) twisting my actual position to such a degree as to present a caricature of what I truly feel....I take offence...as a matter of fact I take great offence. Particularly when the folks making such distortion claim to be holders of values that they somehow lead them to think puts them in possession of some sort of moral high ground.Keep laying claim to being above your own biases while your party moves towards ,if not nominating,sending Santurom to the convention in a position to demand editing and tweaking of your parties platform/ Mike... unfortunately, my posts to you were removed because they quoted your own. However, my point then and now is not to say you are incapable of debate; merely that by stooping to the level of suggesting that proper medication for mental health issues is missing, you appear to be following with the seemingly large crowd of posters here who would rather insult and denigrate than actually debate. The OP asks why no one from the right here wants to debate. I gave an answer. It appears you didn't like that answer. If you believe I mis-characterized the more prolific of the left leaning posters here, and erringly placed you in that category, then I invite you to present your position as to how I am wrong. That you chose to insult Firm rather than address his points will be a hard issue to overcome, however. My question is, can you defend your actions? Were you right to say what you did? Did you attempt to debate on an intelligent level? Did you try to defend your position with facts or reason? Or did you simply refuse to debate and dismiss Firm's position with insinuations that he has a mental illness? I'm not even going to read the rest of this prior to firing off a reply,I never meant to imply Firm wasn't recieving the right meds for a MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE.....I never knew Firm had a mental health issue. With that said,and understanding that this is how you all saw it.....allow me to offer my heartfelt apologies. I knew Firm had "health" issues,nothing more that that...and I was asking an honest question because I felt Firms response to me was a little off from what I know of Firm. I do hope You,and He believe me on this matter.....I would never,I repeat never have done anything so damm low,and certanly would never do it in a malicious manner....as a matter of fact I am sorry you thought I could have done that ,I just would do such a thing. It just never would have occurred to me to do so,that just aint me Treasue.....seriously,that ain't me[&o]

TreasureKY -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:11:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u I'm not even going to read the rest of this prior to firing off a reply,I never meant to imply Firm wasn't recieving the right meds for a MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE.....I never knew Firm had a mental health issue. With that said,and understanding that this is how you all saw it.....allow me to offer my heartfelt apologies. I knew Firm had "health" issues,nothing more that that...and I was asking an honest question because I felt Firms response to me was a little off from what I know of Firm. I do hope You,and He believe me on this matter.....I would never,I repeat never have done anything so damm low,and certanly would never do it in a malicious manner....as a matter of fact I am sorry you thought I could have done that and known all that perhaps I should have. It just never would have occurred to me to do so,that just aint me Treasue.....seriously,that ain't me[&o] Apologies gladly accepted, Mike. That you would appear to stoop so low is what threw me somewhat. Even though there have been disagreements between you and Firm, from previous interactions here, this seemed way out of character for you. I will clarify that Firm has neither health or mental health issues. He did suffer from a persistent eye infection late last year and did end up having minor surgery in December to correct a tear duct that had become blocked by scar tissue. He's fine now and disgustingly healthy. (Said with tongue in cheek because I've been in bed sick with a bug for the past three days.) [;)]

kdsub -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:13:08 PM)
quote: There isn't much reason to debate any more Sure there is Firm...When an argument or counter point makes sense...well it makes sense...But when in the heat of an argument few will acknowledge this fact but will often moderate their stand at a later time. Otherwise I've changed my mind on a few occasions and I don't think I am any different then most. I just didn't always tell the person who changed it...[:D] Butch

slvemike4u -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:16:21 PM)
This is an imperfect medium...made more so by speedy posting,any way you parse it I stepped on my crank there...but I swear,as stupid as it was to ask any question about his meds(and in retrospect I don't know how I could) please understand it was an honest question that this idiot should never ,ever have asked,Regardless of my lack of malicious intent my self censor failed me there,and it never occurred to me how it would SOUND. I am a schmuck and I do apologize

VideoAdminDelta -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:21:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u By the way,just a general note...why any of those posts were pulled is beyond me,were there disagreements contained therein...shit yeah,but it was adult disagreements conducted in an adult manner on an adult web site.....how any of them violated any tenet of the TOS is far,far beyond me. Just my 2 cents [8\|] This is the announcement that I made earlier on the thread: quote: ORIGINAL: VideoAdminDelta This is a reminder that if your post quoted a post that had to be removed, your post has to be removed as well. Thank you. Any TOS and /or forum guideline that has been broken to start the snowball effect of having to remove posts for quoting is best handled on the other side. Thank you.

kdsub -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:21:16 PM)
Mike join the club...I seem to have been stupidly doing the same a lot lately. Butch

FirmhandKY -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:21:39 PM)
No problems, mike. I rarely take offense, anyway. Firm PS. More posts gone. [8\|]

slvemike4u -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:29:31 PM)
When it dawned on me how it "sounded",how it could be "read" (actually it never "dawned " on me,not till Treasure hit me over the head ,and rightly so,with it)it also became clear that you should have taken offense Firm,and had every right to do so. Again I am sorry.

SilverBoat -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:38:39 PM)
Considering how many posts wound up deleted from this thread, would it or would it not fall beyond the TOS to speculate as to whether anticipating/provoking that sort of action by the Mods was another tactic in which certain posters engaged? And after considering the matrix of posts that were/weren't removed that did/didn't quote/requote posts that were removed ... Hrmm ... There may be another reason entirely why the 'debates' here go as they do ... ...

FirmhandKY -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:58:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverBoat Considering how many posts wound up deleted from this thread, would it or would it not fall beyond the TOS to speculate as to whether anticipating/provoking that sort of action by the Mods was another tactic in which certain posters engaged? And after considering the matrix of posts that were/weren't removed that did/didn't quote/requote posts that were removed ... Hrmm ... There may be another reason entirely why the 'debates' here go as they do ... Well, I read all and responded to most of what was pulled. I told one poster to "Screw them and their complaining" (paraphrased slightly, in the interests of not challenging anyone) and it was pulled and I got a gold message. I can't fault them pulling what they pulled. And, in the long run, it's the only way to try to achieve a semblance of order and sanity. My point was, however, that it could be somewhat counter to the topic of this particular thread. In a large sense, however, it's needed. Part of the problem is that some people are very good at cruising just below the radar, and dancing around the lines of the TOS with great skill. In particular, there are several posters who are quite "skilled" in the passive-aggressive category of insinuating dastardly things about other posters, but who then vociferously claim innocence if called on it. They poison the pool, but it would likely take more moderation than is healthy or available in order to do something about it. Realistically, the best option is that the culture of all the other posters together to frown on such things. In other words, we ourselves have to refrain from doing such things, and "shun" (in a sense) those posters who do, rather than feeding them praise. Firm EFS

slvemike4u -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 6:59:11 PM)
Well,I have publicly apologized,I have administered 40 lashes,if only figuratively allow me to re-visit for a moment one of the comments that drove me t my silliness. Firm,you asserted that I hold the view that any man of faith is/or should be disqualified( I am paraphrasing here,I have nothing else to go on save my imperfect memory)from public office. This is a patently false assertion,I voted for Obama,and will undoubtedly do so for re-election,Does this not,all by itself put false that assertion ?

FirmhandKY -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 7:02:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Well,I have publicly apologized,I have administered 40 lashes,if only figuratively allow me to re-visit for a moment one of the comments that drove me t my silliness. Firm,you asserted that I hold the view that any man of faith is/or should be disqualified( I am paraphrasing here,I have nothing else to go on save my imperfect memory)from public office. This is a patently false assertion,I voted for Obama,and will undoubtedly do so for re-election,Does this not,all by itself put false that assertion ? mike, I was dredging up an earlier conversation we had on the subject, months ago. We walked down that path of logic, and you came to a point in which you were no longer sure about what you believed, exactly, and you wanted to think about our discussion. I didn't know if you had arrived at a final conclusion, but figured that you would correct me if I were wrong, or if you had changed your mind. You want me to attempt to find the thread? Firm

tj444 -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 7:08:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Part of the problem is that some people are very good at cruising just below the radar, and dancing around the lines of the TOS with great skill. In particular, there are several posters who are quite "skilled" in the passive-aggressive category of insinuating dastardly things about other posters, but who then vociferously claim innocence if called on it. They poison the pool, but it would likely take more moderation that is healthy or available in order to do something about it. Realistically, the best option is that the culture of all the other posters together to frown on such things. In other words, we ourselves have to refrain from doing such things, and "shun" (in a sense) those posters who do, rather than feeding them praise. Firm Yes, and imo, some of them are trying to provoke an insult war in an effort to get the other poster(s) to lose control and break the TOS and get themselves banned while they are not.. jmo I dont bother with the offensive posters or respond to their posts, they can be as snarky and insulting as they want.. they just show people what they are all about, imo..

SilverBoat -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 7:16:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Part of the problem is that some people are very good at cruising just below the radar, and dancing around the lines of the TOS with great skill. In particular, there are several posters who are quite "skilled" in the passive-aggressive category of insinuating dastardly things about other posters, but who then vociferously claim innocence if called on it. They poison the pool, but it would likely take more moderation that is healthy or available in order to do something about it. Realistically, the best option is that the culture of all the other posters together to frown on such things. In other words, we ourselves have to refrain from doing such things, and "shun" (in a sense) those posters who do, rather than feeding them praise. Firm Yes, and imo, some of them are trying to provoke an insult war in an effort to get the other poster(s) to lose control and break the TOS and get themselves banned while they are not.. jmo I dont bother with the offensive posters or respond to their posts, they can be as snarky and insulting as they want.. they just show people what they are all about, imo.. Yeah, context within context, hypocritical projection and cleverly twisted denial, maybe coupled with some sort of secretive protectionist influence, that does seem to be the case at times. I've seen it often at other sites, and the exceptions to that have been very rare indeed. Perhaps some peoples' lives are truly so miserable that the only things they have left on which to boost themselves are furtively glorying in deceptive online aggravations and small-pond omnipotence. [sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]

slvemike4u -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 7:34:28 PM)
I don't know what profit there would be in that tonight Firm,I'm tired and my ass is dragging....perhaps another time,but I will tell you emphatically I do not believe faith in and of itself should be used as a reason to exclude someone from public life.I do believe that the attempt to impose that faith,even if just the morality of any given faith,is indeed reason for removal. I hope that clarifies things between us,even if just a little bit. p.s. honest,I can't recall the discussion you are referencing

FirmhandKY -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 7:44:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u I don't know what profit there would be in that tonight Firm,I'm tired and my ass is dragging....perhaps another time,but I will tell you emphatically I do not believe faith in and of itself should be used as a reason to exclude someone from public life.I do believe that the attempt to impose that faith,even if just the morality of any given faith,is indeed reason for removal. I hope that clarifies things between us,even if just a little bit. p.s. honest,I can't recall the discussion you are referencing No problems, mike. We can discuss it later (or not). Treasure found the thread, however. Here is one of my posts where I discuss it in detail, but you might have to read back to get more context. Palin Attended Church Event With Samurai Sword Ceremony And, apparently, it was "several months ago". In late 2009, to be exact. [:D] Firm

TheHeretic -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 7:44:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverBoat Considering how many posts wound up deleted from this thread, would it or would it not fall beyond the TOS to speculate as to whether anticipating/provoking that sort of action by the Mods was another tactic in which certain posters engaged? And after considering the matrix of posts that were/weren't removed that did/didn't quote/requote posts that were removed ... Hrmm ... There may be another reason entirely why the 'debates' here go as they do ... ... Except it was going on before the recent changes in how the mods move among us, Silverboat.

Anaxagoras -> RE: No one to debate any more (2/12/2012 7:50:16 PM)
Geez, can't we all get on by agreeing that we are all poopie-heads? [:D]

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