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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, the PhD is not in military subjects either, since there is no knowledge of the difference in tactics and strategy.

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ORIGINAL: Edwynn



Again, the rape concomitant with invasions is not a reproductive strategy and never was, at most it was part of the strategy of conquest, though at least as many times or more rather just the inevitable result, certainly nothing that needed a plan or a strategy on its own. And never was rape itself or even any putative reproduction strategy the impetus to conquest.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Oh, I think you are assimilating arguements not in evidence and then inferring rather nonsensical ideas into them.

What I approve of as a Gorean is not what we are discussing in terms of rape.

Slave rape is a different animal, in fact there was a thread on it in the Gorean Forum not to long ago.  (you see one of the biggies on this one, in this world, she would have to agree to be my slave first, and that is more than empirical conclusion, that is fact).

So, she knows it may or may not come, at my whim, and she has to agree (by inferrence) to that and many other things,  way before I start ripping off her clothes, (or if I really like them (not usually) having her disrobe, and saved for later).

The PhD is not in philosophy either, and you can quote me.

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ORIGINAL: xssve

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ORIGINAL: Edwynn



Again, the rape concomitant with invasions is not a reproductive strategy and never was, at most it was part of the strategy of conquest, though at least as many times or more rather just the inevitable result, certainly nothing that needed a plan or a strategy on its own. And never was rape itself or even any putative reproduction strategy the impetus to conquest.

Once again, strategy, used in the biological sense, does not equate to a conscious design or plan, it's more like an algorithm - if it works, it's passed on, that's all, and the better it works, the more it's passed on.

The vast majority of species that employ r strategy do not possess the neural density to make much in the way of plans about anything, for example, it's called a "strategy" nevertheless, a bit of anthropomorphism perhaps, but you'll have to take that up with the biological community.

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Also, genes, reproduction, etc. are always 'just along for the ride' within the host or the population and necessarily follow and are subjected to whatever circumstances thereby. It could be said that the reproductive process is capable of success in surviving a great amount of error, misdirection, and outright folly on the part of the host, yes. But this is because overall genetic strategy and reproductive strategy within that can survive a period of rape, along with a multitude of other anomalies, not because any of these anomalies are themselves a 'strategy'; they are not strategies, they are anomalies.

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ORIGINAL: xssve

Well I did look into the Gor forum a few hours ago, before getting embroiled in this fascinating throwdown, but I was more struck by an observation of Aswad's in the patriarchy thread about domestication - that appears to have begun with animals around 12 to 15kya, although the taming of shrews looks like it will take at least twice that long to complete.



I missed the slave rape thread, I'll have to live with that somehow.

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Assuming the most strict and narrow use of the biological term to be as you claim, why is that one particular definition to be held as ruling over any and all other considerations of the term 'success'? Allow me to grant, for sake of argument, that one specific meaning; given that, the total of survival of a species involves all aspects of the environment and of the actions of the animals within a species, within that environment. If survival occurs after some particular action, this may count as success in your very limited definition, but does not imply much less necessarily translate to survival, or success, of that species.

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Assuming the most strict and narrow use of the biological term to be as you claim, why is that one particular definition to be held as ruling over any and all other considerations of the term 'success'? Allow me to grant, for sake of argument, that one specific meaning; given that, the total of survival of a species involves all aspects of the environment and of the actions of the animals within a species, within that environment. If survival occurs after some particular action, this may count as success in your very limited definition, but does not imply much less necessarily translate to survival, or success, of that species.

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ORIGINAL: xssve

There are Two very significant events in human history that could have led to the selection of a "rape gene" - the first is bipedalism and the loss of estrus in women, which meant that all the usual methodology for mating went right out the window, and nobody knows what the fuck to do, other than it apparently had no equivalent effect on male libido.

Just a hypothesis, take it or leave it.

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ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

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Assuming the most strict and narrow use of the biological term to be as you claim, why is that one particular definition to be held as ruling over any and all other considerations of the term 'success'? Allow me to grant, for sake of argument, that one specific meaning; given that, the total of survival of a species involves all aspects of the environment and of the actions of the animals within a species, within that environment. If survival occurs after some particular action, this may count as success in your very limited definition, but does not imply much less necessarily translate to survival, or success, of that species.

You are incorrect. The entire definition of species is at heart a genetic definition. If you pass on your genes or those related to you (i.e. an ant ensuring that his queen's genes survive) you are a success by the definition of genetic success, which is how the term was being used.
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Rape, by the biological definition of genetic success, works. Or at least it does unless abortion is reasonably easily available and culturally encouraged as a response to rape..

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ORIGINAL: Edwynn


Obviously, there is genetic success in the immediate term, which I referred to in the first part of the post. What I said after that is that genetic success and long term species success are not necessarily one and the same thing.

What is implicated by that is that genetic success alone is a poor choice as point of primary consideration in the discussion of rape or any other social anomaly when considering success of a species.