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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 5:49:34 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

My religious beliefs do not prohibit either birth control or abortion. To which I say, the government has no right to pass laws which restrict my ability to obtain, and or pay, for either.



That's terrific but many Christians (and Jews and Muslims and Hindus) believe that birth control is a sin and therefore, a prohibition and for the government to force them to indulge in it (by way of financially supporting it) is a violation of the first amendment.


The problem with their beliefs is that theirs seek to limit other people's freedom and liberty, and mine don't. So, IN AMERCIA, where Freedom and Liberty are the DEFAULT FUCKING OPTIONS, my opinion prevails.





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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 5:55:33 PM   
dcnovice


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There's something kind of cute about the institution that gave us the Inquisition carrying on about religious freedom.

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 6:02:30 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Stern...where did I mention religion in my post... My answer has nothing to do with any religious belief. If you are going to give something free why not make it something useful like a free prostrate screening...or pap smear.

Rubbers or birth control pills are not essential for health... get my point?

Butch

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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 6:15:45 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

You know, if we DNA tested every man, and then made child support for the kids being born out of wedlock automatic (at say 30% of the guy's pay), I'm pretty sure Birth Control would be a right in every state...


Im curious. If the kids were living with him, would his support stop at 30%?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 6:20:24 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I respect your point of view as well...but it is not your place or mine to change some religious dogma or the actions of its followers simply because we don't agree.

The very people you speak of are usually minors still under the control of their parents. Access to free birth control drugs would still be controlled by others.

I am for free healthcare for all including contraceptive devices...but if reality says I must pick some services that are free and some that are not then birth control would be low on the list.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 6:26:39 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

You know, if we DNA tested every man, and then made child support for the kids being born out of wedlock automatic (at say 30% of the guy's pay), I'm pretty sure Birth Control would be a right in every state...


Im curious. If the kids were living with him, would his support stop at 30%?

Of course not...
I see your point and agree with it. Still, if guys who go around having their fun, saying they don't like how rubbers feel, and who dump women when they find out the woman is pregnant knew they were looking at that kind of chunk coming out of their wallets, they would probably think twice about their actions...
I don't know if the world will ever be fair, my proposal would make the world "more fair," and make a lot of men care more about proper birth control, which I think is a good thing.

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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 7:29:54 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

That's terrific but many Christians (and Jews and Muslims and Hindus) believe that birth control is a sin and therefore, a prohibition and for the government to force them to indulge in it (by way of financially supporting it) is a violation of the first amendment.

Let's be very clear: If the government were trying to outlaw birth control, I would be at the front of the pack, supporting you but by virtue of trying to force churches, to fund birth control, they are restricting those religions' rights to freely practice their religion.


2005 poll...

2. Birth control/contraception is supported by 93 percent of all adults, including 90 percent of Catholics and 88 percent of born-again Christians, the "very religious" and Evangelicals.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/vault/Harris-Interactive-Poll-Research-New-Finds-Different-Religious-Groups-H-2005-10.pdf

Im not sure where your "many" claim comes from.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 7:58:11 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

You know, if we DNA tested every man, and then made child support for the kids being born out of wedlock automatic (at say 30% of the guy's pay), I'm pretty sure Birth Control would be a right in every state


I have heard, but never seen a really hard example, that some states DO require the naming of the father as a condition of receiving public assistance. RI did for a while in the late 80s early 90s I think. But I also seem to remember a big flap over it in the courts.
  


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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 8:08:30 PM   
DomMeinCT


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

That's terrific but many Christians (and Jews and Muslims and Hindus) believe that birth control is a sin and therefore, a prohibition and for the government to force them to indulge in it (by way of financially supporting it) is a violation of the first amendment.

Let's be very clear: If the government were trying to outlaw birth control, I would be at the front of the pack, supporting you but by virtue of trying to force churches, to fund birth control, they are restricting those religions' rights to freely practice their religion.


2005 poll...

2. Birth control/contraception is supported by 93 percent of all adults, including 90 percent of Catholics and 88 percent of born-again Christians, the "very religious" and Evangelicals.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/vault/Harris-Interactive-Poll-Research-New-Finds-Different-Religious-Groups-H-2005-10.pdf

Im not sure where your "many" claim comes from.


I'll add to that that "many" Jews do not believe birth control is a sin, and even some adherents of the Orthodox arm of the faith are permitted to use birth control. http://judaism.about.com/od/sexinjudaism/a/birthcontrol.htm

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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 8:27:11 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:


There's something kind of cute about the institution that gave us the Inquisition carrying on about religious freedom.


Frescos? Lot's Of Gold Leaf?



_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 8:30:43 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline 		My bad Butch ... I was replying to searching4mysir and musta clicked the wrong reply . Nah we're on the same page in this thread... weird huh? OR IS IT?


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/18/2012 8:30:53 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I respect your point of view as well...but it is not your place or mine to change some religious dogma or the actions of its followers simply because we don't agree.

The very people you speak of are usually minors still under the control of their parents. Access to free birth control drugs would still be controlled by others.

I am for free healthcare for all including contraceptive devices...but if reality says I must pick some services that are free and some that are not then birth control would be low on the list.

Butch

I don't believe religious groups are objecting because they want something else covered that is not being covered. I think they just don't want to cover birth control. They aren't choosing between different services. The battle is simply about whether contraception is covered or not. And so if I read your response correctly, you would support including contraception rather than excluding it.

_____________________________

~ ftp

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/19/2012 5:02:29 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		oh I agree with you when it comes to religion and their reasons...I was just telling you my reasoning and why I think it was a poor political move at this time.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/19/2012 5:51:27 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I respect your point of view as well...but it is not your place or mine to change some religious dogma or the actions of its followers simply because we don't agree.

The very people you speak of are usually minors still under the control of their parents. Access to free birth control drugs would still be controlled by others.

I am for free healthcare for all including contraceptive devices...but if reality says I must pick some services that are free and some that are not then birth control would be low on the list.

Butch

I don't believe religious groups are objecting because they want something else covered that is not being covered. I think they just don't want to cover birth control. They aren't choosing between different services. The battle is simply about whether contraception is covered or not. And so if I read your response correctly, you would support including contraception rather than excluding it.


Why do you think an employer who provides as a benefit access to group healthcare rates has any say in the relationship between:

A) An Insurance Company and their Customer, the Insured.

B) An Insured Patient and their Physician.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/19/2012 7:58:26 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Why do you think an employer who provides as a benefit access to group healthcare rates has any say in the relationship between:

A) An Insurance Company and their Customer, the Insured.

B) An Insured Patient and their Physician.

Farglebargle, was this addressed to me? As should be clear from all my posts on this thread I believe contraception should be covered. I believe we as a society have to make a commitment to the concept of family planning and access to birth control. I'm not sure why you are asking me this. (I'm not in favor of any restrictions on communication between doctors and patients, etc. - and please don't get me started on the communication restrictions that already exist on abortion.)

_____________________________

~ ftp

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RE: Religious freedom or hypocrisy? - 2/19/2012 9:36:56 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Maybe. Who knows? Probably not.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 56
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