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GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 11:53:09 AM

subrob1967

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Because socialized medicine just don't work! But, as usual, the Progressives want to ignore history, because they think they know better...

quote:

“Europe’s message to the world is no longer that the socialist dream of the cradle-to-grave welfare state is an easy achievement,” Morris said. “Rather, it is the shouted warning that it is a fool’s paradise. The bills are coming due and the only real alternatives — serious financial reform of government or national bankruptcy — are not pleasant.”

Morris added that the British government, “unlike the Obama administration, is hearing the warnings, identifying its greatest vulnerabilities, and trying to race ahead of the deluge.

As the White House’s model for health reform hits roadblock after roadblock, a Gallup poll released Wednesday shows that small business owners are losing confidence in Obama’s plan. Forty-eight percent point to potential health care costs and another 46 percent point to government regulations as reasons to abandon the president’s agenda.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/17/as-obama-pushes-new-regulations-uk-eyes-privatizing-its-health-care/#ixzz1mlUn7EAd

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/17/as-obama-pushes-new-regulations-uk-eyes-privatizing-its-health-care/#ixzz1mlUPeQeQ

< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 2/18/2012 11:54:46 AM >

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 1:08:49 PM

DomKen

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Dearest completely uninformed OP,

The UK has a fully socialized health care system. That is almost all hospitals and clinics are owned by the state and almost health care workers work directly for the government. This system has never worked terribly well and is not a model for most people who advocate changing the way US health care is delivered. Most people in the US who envision changing US health care, the vast majority of the US population based on decades of polling, see a single payer system where doctors and hospitals remain unchanged except that almost all payments would come from a single tax supported entity.

IOW the con website simply lied.

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 1:47:50 PM

SoftBonds

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Well, the interesting question is whether the US should have a single provider system (aka the US Veteran's hospital system and Military Medical care), like GB. A single payer system (aka Medicare for all), like Canada, or a universal requirement for health insurance (Romneycare), like Austria.
Right now we have a communist system, created by Reagan. Yes, I said Communist, from each according to ability to pay, to each according to need. I say that because Reagan made sure all hospitals have to care for anyone who shows up at their door, and paying for that care has to be shifted to the people who have money or insurance. Who would have thought that Reagan would create a communist health care system?
Note that during the debate over Obamacare/Romneycare (based on the system Nixon proposed), Republicans claimed that under Britain's Socialized Health Care system, Stephen Hawking would have been left to die. This was a rather embarrassing gaffe as Stephen Hawking is British, so the OP shouldn't feel too bad about Cons lying to him about health care.

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 1:52:13 PM

subrob1967

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Wrong, as usual...
Berwick... Obama's main man
Leading Lefty Talking Head Bashier
Dumbass Michael Moore, hero of the progressive movement
Some no name loser in Salon
Not to mention Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi praising it when ramming Obamacare down our throats...

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 1:55:12 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

Wrong, as usual...
Berwick... Obama's main man
Leading Lefty Talking Head Bashier
Dumbass Michael Moore, hero of the progressive movement
Some no name loser in Salon
Not to mention Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi praising it when ramming Obamacare down our throats...

That's not Obama care Rob <Zip>

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 1:57:28 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

Because socialized medicine just don't work! But, as usual, the Progressives want to ignore history, because they think they know better...

The friggin Daily Caller AGAIN?????
Jesus at least read "news" that's spell-checked.
If TWO Drs in the UK said "let's privatize" the DC would call it a movement.

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 1:58:26 PM

Moonhead

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Actually, the current GB government (well, two thirds of it, anyway) is looking to privatise the NHS because they think they can make some money by flogging off the bits that can be run at a profit to investment companies. Socialised medicine "not working" isn't an issue at all.

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 2:47:02 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

Actually, the current GB government (well, two thirds of it, anyway) is looking to privatise the NHS because they think they can make some money by flogging off the bits that can be run at a profit to investment companies. Socialised medicine "not working" isn't an issue at all.

So they want to cash in on the higher profit regions of commercial medicine?
Yeah, after seeing Drs praising the quality and delivery of their trade on either 60 minutes or frontline less than a year ago, I figured there wasn't some sudden failure.

What do you anticipate that will mean for the consumer?

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 2:51:40 PM

Moonhead

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What it'll mean for the consumer depends on whether they manage to get anywhere with it or not this time. There've been a couple of previous attempts to sneak privatisation in by the back door that mercifully came to nothing.

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 3:06:40 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Wrong, as usual...
Berwick... Obama's main man

This guy was running the office that handled payouts under Medicare and Medicaid and nthing in this article suggests he ever supported a full socialization of US health care

quote:

Leading Lefty Talking Head Bashier

Martin Bashir is a British socialist. A real one from Europe. He's to the left of me and certainly not an American.

quote:

Dumbass Michael Moore, hero of the progressive movement

This is a page of fact checks for his movie. Moore's opinion on what should be in the US is expresed no where on that page and britain is only mentioned twice, the price of prescriptions in the UK and when the NHS was implemented.

quote:

Some no name loser in Salon

What do you know. You atually did post a single link of some author who likes the NHS. Now go back and read my first post where I was explicitly clear that ony most people preferred a single payer over a single provider system.

quote:

Not to mention Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi praising it when ramming Obamacare down our throats...

Heath insurance reform (what you call Obamacare) is not socialized medicine. It is simply some new regulations dealing with how health insurance companies must behave. The only people who will get their health care from a tax supported entity, besides those who do already, are those people with conditions such that insurers refuse to insure them.

You really should become well informed rather than believing the lies spread on con sites.

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 6:35:22 PM

Edwynn

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~FR~

Even if it were the case that the NHS was a complete failure (which it is in fact far from), it is but one European country's health care system. Every other developed economy has a national approach to health care, a good many of them that could be called socialised medicine. Having one failure out of all that, even two or three, would not indict all of socialised health care, anymore than the financial deregulation fiasco in the US implicates all of the market system as economically unworkable. In whatever process, implementation is key.

Denmark and Sweden, as two example, have high taxes, all health care paid for, 400+ days of parental leave at half pay, etc. and have positive national net savings after all that, because the high taxes are more than made up for by not having to pay separate insurance premiums, free daycare, half pay parental leave meaning mom can keep her job and hold her place in advancement in the company and still spend far more time with the child, etc. The US paycheck deducts for taxes and insurance and retirement. In Denmark the tax deduction covers all of it, and more efficiently too. In the US I'm not sure when we'll ever get back to national private net savings being in the black.

But then in the US, that's not the point, is it?

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/18/2012 7:02:22 PM >

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 6:44:04 PM

frazzle

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there is no attempt, to privatise the NHS. stop trying to be american

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 7:04:11 PM

PeonForHer

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What? Blimey, Frazzle - you must be the only person in Britain who doesn't think that this is about privatisation!

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 7:10:13 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Because socialized medicine just don't work! But, as usual, the Progressives want to ignore history, because they think they know better...

You're looking at the UK through glasses that are too American, subrob. Your terms don't don't fit. In the UK the supporters of privatising like to call themselves 'progressives'. These will call supporters of the NHS-as-it-is 'traditionalists'. The NHS in current form has its faults, but it's got pretty strong support on both left and right.

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 7:11:25 PM

frazzle

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Doctors actually picking whats best for the patients..........disasterous, shouldnt happen, i'll ask my MP instead

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/18/2012 7:19:14 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: frazzle

Doctors actually picking whats best for the patients..........disasterous, shouldnt happen, i'll ask my MP instead

For a second, I thought, 'Ah - I've got Frazzle wrong'. But you were actually being sarcastic . . . .

Doctors do want what's best for patients - which is why only a tiny proportion of them want Lansley's reforms.

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/19/2012 4:45:31 AM

Moonhead

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It is rather weird the way a lot of American rightists come out with thess arguments as though the NHS is the only socialised medicine system on earth, really. You'd think the Canadian or Cuban ones might be handier for pointing out what a worthless and destructive system funding medicine through taxation is, really...

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/19/2012 6:40:53 AM

Edwynn

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Yes, those Cubans, who flew plane load after plane load of doctors and medical workers to Haiti after the earth quakes. The country north of there, with the highest priced medical care in the world sent a few doctors to the island too, here and there, as they felt the notion, make sure the PR department go with them. Hurry up and be done with it though, we still have the law that will arrest you (US citizen) for going to Cuba, we don't want you nuzzling up to them while we're on a PR mission in Haiti.

Photo op. Good stuff.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/19/2012 6:48:28 AM >

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/19/2012 8:57:55 AM

Fellow

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quote:

Because socialized medicine just don't work! But, as usual, the Progressives want to ignore history, because they think they know better...

How does history proves socialized medicine does not work?
I think, based on simple finance economics, either fully market based private system or socialized system would work better than the current USA mixed system. The current medical system actually mimics the US economy as a whole (crony capitalism) where government subsidies are essential to profitability. Also, simple logic tells fully private market-based system would deliver better quality care.

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RE: GB Looking To Privatize Medicine - 2/19/2012 9:04:28 AM

SoftBonds

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It is rather weird the way a lot of American rightists come out with thess arguments as though the NHS is the only socialised medicine system on earth, really. You'd think the Canadian or Cuban ones might be handier for pointing out what a worthless and destructive system funding medicine through taxation is, really...

I think the reason is two-fold.
1. Bashing the Canadian system in the US leads to hearing a lot of folks who have friends in Canada saying "Actually, they quite like it." The border is rather porous so lots of folks travel back and forth. It is safer to bash the British system since few Americans will know someone who knows better.
2. The Canadian system pays private doctors and hospitals for care, the British system just has the government own the hospitals and pay the doctors, so it is probably scarier to Conservatives.

That said, GB and Canada still pay about $3000 US per capita per year. The US pays about $7000. And while some specialists in the US are better at some things, if you look at healthcare outcomes (life expectancy, infant mortality, etc.), the US is behind all the industrialized nations with Socialized Medicine. So some rich Canadians may go to the US for optional/experimental procedures, but Canada has to have immigration policies to keep Americans from emigrating just for the health care.

Oh, and the way the US pays for Health Care costs businesses disproportionately, I think it was GM that mentioned that about $3000 of the cost of US cars is the cost of US healthcare. Cars made in Japan/Korea/Germany (with Socialized Health Care), don't have that cost.

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