RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (Full Version)

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BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (2/29/2012 6:29:09 PM)

Let's see what happens if I were to suppose a what if. What if we were not made in the image of God? This would imply that our world is not a region of overlap. This Hell and there is no helping hand from above to get us out of this mess.

I concede that I am regarding the existence of God as a given. I know that God exists so this does not pose a problem for me personally. You are claiming that this arrangement yields a more elegant solution, but in order to embrace this so-called more elegant solution you have to deny the facts that I've presented to you. In order for your theory to work, your universe would have to be deterministic; otherwise, the one to one correspondence that your theory relies upon does not exist. What evidence do you have that the universe is deterministic?

Christians are big hypocrites, aren't they? Is it possible that Christians have been barking up the wrong tree? where the real proof of God's existence is not where they thought it could be found?




xssve -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (2/29/2012 7:04:25 PM)

What facts?




SoftBonds -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (2/29/2012 7:07:51 PM)

Shhhhh xssve, BeneevolentM is having a deep and meaningful conversation with God and Pinhead. We don't want to interrupt.




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (2/29/2012 7:24:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

What facts?


I knew this Bible passage would come in handy. See post 189 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4046838.




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (2/29/2012 7:39:09 PM)

I am beloved of God. He even made it explicit here with all of you as witnesses.

quote:

Luke 10:9 New American Standard Bible (1995) http://nasb.scripturetext.com/luke/10.htm

... say to them, 'The kingdom of God has come near to you.'


It is better to serve God and win a friend for eternity, than it is to have temples erected in your name.

God shall always be with me. What need do I have for viagra ultimate? If it is the Will of God, as God wills it to be.




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/1/2012 5:04:39 PM)

The following is an excerpt from a letter that I just wrote. I thought that everyone here might find what I wrote, at a minimum, entertaining and perhaps thought provoking.

quote:


... together with some other switches such as the /FU switch are likely needed. Someone had to have a sense of humor or lack thereof in naming that switch. ... I hate to make a Pinhead of the Hellraiser franchise analogy, but Microsoft is Pinhead. What is going to be the path of least resistance for you? Certainly, the web browser based technologies, but they will get you stuck in a kind of prison downstream.


Is sex, for example, evil? It certainly has an evil character that needs to be suppressed. The instruments of suppression that are available to man tend to be violent and I believe this is partially motivated by what xssve wrote in post 174 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4046592: "... I don't think they were talking about a homeschoolers - 'Philosophy' literally means, 'a love of knowledge' it will not steer you wrong, although it is not for the many."

What xssve wrote has grave implications. Unless the people can be philosophers, they must be told the difference between right and wrong, forcefully. Is this not what many here are complaining about? Is this a deficit in the authorities or a deficit in people? It appears to me that there is plenty of sin to go around.

What is wrong with homeschoolers? Are not your views aristocratic in a sense similar to how the Church is aristocratic? You need a teacher with credentials in order to discover enlightenment? There is a strong tendency for this to be true. Abraham is remembered for being the father of the faith for a reason, not because his faith (closeness to God, not mere belief in God) was ordinary. Such men are rare. Typically, but not always a teacher is needed. You need someone to show you the way.




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/1/2012 8:57:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM post 93 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4041630

It is heresy not to be in possession of the truth. This is an inherently conservative principle that is also adhered to by academia. There is a silver lining, a caveat. If you are indeed in possession of the truth; it isn't heresy. I think this is what everyone including the Church has since discovered.


I regret how I put this. I expressed too much of my own personal doubts and I was also attempting to appease the crowd, too much appeasing. I really wish I had put this differently because it is bothering my conscience. The Church wanted Galileo Galilei to publish a book that was balanced on the topic which was not altogether unreasonable when you consider what the mission of the Church is. If Galileo Galilei had done as instructed, the truth would have come out that the competing theory was wrong and Galileo Galilei would still have gotten credit anyway. There is reason to believe that Galileo Galilei needlessly embarrassed the Church at a bad time.




xssve -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/1/2012 10:04:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

The devil is rejection: all that god rejects, belongs to the devil by the rule of binary duality.


I don't see the point. How is this germane?
It devils you eh?




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/1/2012 10:42:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

The devil is rejection: all that god rejects, belongs to the devil by the rule of binary duality.


I don't see the point. How is this germane?
It devils you eh?


Sensing a trap I did follow up that post with two additional posts that addressed the matter more fully. What can I tell you? People usually see the world through their eyes. You have got to admit I do better than the average fundy. You only wish it devils me, but if you wish to expand further it is fine with me.




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/1/2012 11:25:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM Post 206 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4048133

... I hate to make a Pinhead of the Hellraiser franchise analogy, but Microsoft is Pinhead. What is going to be the path of least resistance for you? Certainly, the web browser based technologies, but they will get you stuck in a kind of prison downstream.


Why is Microsoft Pinhead? Microsoft in my opinion is Pinhead because it does not seek to be a hypocrite. It sees what it wants and goes for it. It wants you to chose between two paths when in fact there is only one. The split is created artificially by Microsoft in its puritanical, non-hypocritical pursuit of money and market dominance.




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/1/2012 11:50:00 PM)

What would a moral person in business do? As a matter of Church law an employer has certain obligations toward their employees.(1) The Church is also universal so what it demands of an employer may seem minimal. There are other reasons for this as well. What would a moral person in business do? Would they be out there just for the money? or would moral considerations come into play? If moral considerations were to influence a person's behavior, that person is a hypocrite. After all, in this example, you are a business man. Your job is to make money. Many are not accustomed to thinking of this as hypocrisy, but formally speaking it is. This example should help make it more clear how an assault on hypocrisy is an assault on morals.

(1) SternSkipper may feel that this is not so since he has pointed out here or in another thread how he felt the Church sought to cheat him of an honest living by claiming that it did not have to abide by minimum wage laws. I can think of a few reasons why the Church took this position, one of which is when you work for the Church you are in effect taking a vow of poverty. I am uncertain that SternSkipper understood this because my impression was he thought it was just another job.




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/2/2012 1:02:21 AM)

What xssve wrote in post 147 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4044895 was most interesting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

In acentric-centripetal species, the Great Apes for example, to which group we belong, the formations are looser, the centripetal defensive formation is not enforced until a threat actually appears, at which point the Alpha males will rush to distract the predator, allowing the females and young to escape.


An Alpha male rushing in to pursue a perceived threat. This is rich.

The acentric-centripetal, centripetal-acentric divide reminds me of Pinhead.


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

The looser restrictions on acentric behaviors has benefits to the group in terms of innovation - creativity - which is really defined by doing something that nobody else is doing or has ever done - the very polar opposite of conformity which is simply reproducing behavior by rote, imitation, which, of course, also has it's place, as an innovation that is successful, will then be imitated, contributing to group fitness, while unsuccessful behavirors will tend to be ignored - i.e., it works almost exactly like selection on the genetic level, only in terms of abstract behavior, creativity and imitation on a more abstract, behavioral level.

And, it's why humans evolved from acentric-centripetal hominids, and not centripetal-acentric hominids, acentric-centripetalism is the more adaptive mode, and we are nothing if not highly adaptive.


Centripetal-acentric reminds me of so-called Grey Aliens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

But, these are the ancestors of our current political divisions, the centripetal right, including the religious right, imitative, and scornful of creativity, but acting in an organized fashion, and the Left, creative and adaptive but all over the map, from feminism to animal rights to gender bending, to alternate mind states via psychoactive chemistry or ritual practice, etc., etc., and so on.

Diversity vs. conformity - the essential difference being that humans preserve adaptations not only through behavioral imitation, but through cultural modes of communication: oral history, literature, art, music, etc. - pure abstractions that may or may not even have behavioral antecedents.


I thread the needle. Did I just accuse the religious right of being a bunch of Grey Aliens?

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

It's empirically implausible for example, that Jesus actually awoke from the dead, literally, so if we accept that as fact for the sake of argument, there is no behavioral antecedent for rising from the dead, ...


What is obvious to me is your view of the world is two-dimensional. In other words, I'm accusing you of being a Flatlander. You peer out in the pitch darkness of night, see nothing, and conclude that you are safe, because there is nothing out there. How do you explain this in terms of evolutionary theory? Your power of reason told you this?




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/2/2012 4:04:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

I thread the needle. Did I just accuse the religious right of being a bunch of Grey Aliens?


Evidently, something made me slap happy.




MrBukani -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/2/2012 4:16:21 AM)

I do not like double standards in general. But certain double standards are crucial in self defense. That is not hypocritical, but could easily be seen as such.




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/2/2012 4:40:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I do not like double standards in general. But certain double standards are crucial in self defense. That is not hypocritical, but could easily be seen as such.


Philosophers study their ideas. Could it have more to do with jealousy than truth? Doesn't your objection to double standards derive from a feeling? Are feelings objective?




MrBukani -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/2/2012 5:49:53 AM)

Yes some derive from feelings. But dont forget without feelings and emotions ethics are non existant. We can rationalize everything but without emotion there would be no real truth to it.
I will give an example of what I mean with double standard that I can somewhat agree with.
I hate liars, but beautifull girls get harrassed endlessly. Sometimes they have to lie to protect themselves.
It is a double standard because I dont approve of lying.
Except... and here it comes. If it is to the enemy. And to the harrassed woman the man is an enemy. Hence I can approve of lying.
Is that hypocritical or realistic?




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/3/2012 3:10:11 AM)

There is an important work in philosophy known as the Allegory of the Cave. "... the Allegory of the Cave is an attempt to explain the philosopher's place in society: to attempt to enlighten the 'prisoners'." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave I am attempting to do precisely this here.




xssve -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/3/2012 5:59:53 AM)

You're bumping into a lot of walls in the process.




BenevolentM -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/3/2012 6:41:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

You're bumping into a lot of walls in the process.


It is called a miracle for a reason. Ancient Greek philosophy and Christianity merged. This is especially evident in the teachings of the Catholic Church. The Greeks came to a conclusion that there was only one God, then came Christianity which fit what the Greek philosophers at the time reasoned must be true for the one God. A lot more was attained through reason than is generally thought. The emphasis on faith, faith, faith obscures this fact. The quest for truth can prepare you. It is not entirely a road in the opposite direction.




MrBukani -> RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession (3/3/2012 2:04:37 PM)

I'm still thinking...[:D]I like takin it slow these days.
We all run into walls sometimes. We either take a sledgehammer to it if they obstruct us or fing the door if they protect us.

I started to read a lot of Socrates the past year cause I got a bit stuck in my progress and due to ethical differences.
I started reading the allegory. I love it, people in shackles in a cave is right up my dark bdsm alley.[:D]
I question if Plato really understood all Socrates was saying.
About one God, if you could show me where Plato is contemplating (is that bloody word coming from Plato or what?[:D]) one god, that would be very welcome.
It did struck me in the frame of time they were living in, that they talked about reïncarnation. I suspect Socrates learned of Buddha(indirect of course)
I always found a lot of philosophical groundwork in Buddhism. It's a bit the same for Jesus. I am with very little doubt, he must have had knowledge of greek philosophy.




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