RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 12:06:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell

If you found out that your M or your sub/slave was an illegal immigrant would you report them?

No, absolutely not. Earthlings, in my view, should have free run of the whole planet to live and work anywhere they choose doing what they love or are capable of doing. Borders suck and for a government to decree that two people can't marry who they desire or to live and love where they desire is, pretty much, utter bullshit.




subrob1967 -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 12:41:35 AM)

I'd arrest them myself... But then again, it's part of my job.




kalikshama -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 6:35:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Great point, MIP -- as someone originally from KS, and currently living in another ag state (NE), there are quite a few regular Americans doing farm labor jobs; they aren't "unwanted" jobs. I didn't sign up for this program because I didn't hear about it, but I would've. =p I actually like working outdoors, and I'm a rural person anyway. I grew up doing ag-type work in my grandpa's business, so it's really not that alien to me.


Is NE agriculture like tomato farming in Florida?

http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2011/09/08/how-the-modern-day-tomato-came-to-be/

Eatocracy: Who are the workers?

Estabrook: They are primarily people from Southern Mexico, Northern Central America, Guatemala. United Farm Workers estimate that 70 percent of all farm workers in this country, not just tomato pickers, are undocumented immigrants.

Eatocracy: What are their working conditions like?

Estabrook: Slavery is what is happening. There is no way to gloss it. You can't say "slavery-like." You can't say "near-slavery." "Human trafficking" doesn't even do it credit. Here are some things that are in court records; it's all been proven.

People are being bought and sold like chattels. People are locked and shackled in chains at night in order to prevent them from escaping. People are being beaten severely if they're too tired to work, too sick to work or don't want to work hard enough. People are beaten even more severely or murdered if they try to escape. They receive little or no pay for their efforts.

That, to me, is slavery. It's like 1850, not 2011.

Eatocracy: How does a worker end up in this situation?

Estabrook: First of all, there have been 1,200 slaves freed in seven separate prosecutions in Florida in the last 15 years. The way that they get into slavery is often a slippery slope.

I talked to one guy who'd just crossed the border and hit the town of Immokalee, Florida. He was homeless and staying at a mission. He was standing outside and a guy pulled up in a pickup truck and said, "Hey, want work? I'll pay you?" and he named a price that was twice the going rate."

The man told him, "My mother cooks for the crew, and we'll just deduct that from your check, and you can even stay on my property; I've got some buildings. We'll just take that from your check."

This all sounded good, but you know what happens. Even though he picked enough tomatoes to supposedly get out of debt to his boss, he was never told that.

Everything cost money. It even cost him $5 to hose himself off with a backyard hose every day. There was plenty of liquor supplied at a very high price. He was kept enslaved for two and a half years before he broke out.

Eatocracy: How did he say he broke free?

Estabrook: This is telltale of the conditions they live under. He and three or four other slaves had been locked for the night in the back of the produce truck that was going to go out in the fields the next day. There was no toilet or running water.

As dawn broke, they noticed that there was a little gap between the rivets. He got on the shoulders of another man and they punched and kicked their way through the roof. He slid down the side of the truck and got a ladder so they rest of them could crawl out and run to safety.

Eatocracy: Have there been any health concerns for the workers?

Estabrook: Florida tomatoes can be sprayed with more than 100 different fungicides, pesticides and herbicides. Some of them are what the Environmental Protection Agency calls "acutely toxic" - which is a nice way of saying they can kill you. The containers come with skulls and crossbones.

I talked to three or four dozen tomato workers during the course of my research and I'd ask them if they'd ever been sprayed. It was like asking them if they put their pants on one leg at a time. They'd say, "Of course! It happens every day." It's illegal, but it happens. Florida tomatoes have to be sprayed regularly or they'll die because of all the insects and diseases there.

Most workers now are first generation Hispanic, so they know there have been short term effects.

Eatocracy: Have there been more long-term cases studied?

Estabrook: Years ago, the workers were African American, and they didn't migrate - they stayed put.

There's an area in Central Florida, not far from Disneyworld, called Lake Apopka. In the 40s, someone got the idea of draining half the lake and planting crops in the muck. Then they decided to take it one step further and in the off season, re-flood the cropland. They thought it would help the fertility and kill off weeds and they kept doing that for four decades.

All the pesticides that were on the crops went into the water and were pumped back into the lake, then pumped back on the crops. Not only were there people working in those fields; they were living in trailers next to the fields.

Today, even though they haven't farmed in that area since 1998 because it became so bad, they closed the lake down, twelve years later these people are finding themselves with all sorts of immune diseases and endocrine disruptor related diseases. These have all been traced to pesticide exposure in animals. They have a rate of birth defects four times the Florida average.

In its wisdom, the Florida government provided millions of dollars to study water birds, and found out yes indeed, they'd been poisoned by these pesticides and it spent a million and a half to study the alligators of this area and found out they, too had reproductive harm - the male alligators' genitals were much smaller than normal.

It wasn't until this year that they set aside $500,000 to give to a little clinic that these 2500 workers could go to - and Governor Scott just vetoed it a few weeks ago.

The wealthy farmers received over $100,000,000 for the land. The workers got zip. These are American-born African Americans who have lived on this land for generations.




OsideGirl -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 7:35:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell

True there are some girls who are able to learn the languages from interactions with clients though.


The girls trafficked across the border here are brought over to service the itinerant field workers. Since those workers are primarily Latino, I doubt they're learning English.




VirginPotty -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 8:04:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell

If you found out that your M or your sub/slave was an illegal immigrant would you report them?


Do they give good head? 




tj444 -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 8:11:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
Great point, MIP -- as someone originally from KS, and currently living in another ag state (NE), there are quite a few regular Americans doing farm labor jobs; they aren't "unwanted" jobs. I didn't sign up for this program because I didn't hear about it, but I would've. =p I actually like working outdoors, and I'm a rural person anyway. I grew up doing ag-type work in my grandpa's business, so it's really not that alien to me.


Is NE agriculture like tomato farming in Florida?

http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2011/09/08/how-the-modern-day-tomato-came-to-be/

that is disgusting

unfortunately, my experience is that Latinos dont fight for themselves the way white people do.. the latino family i lived with, she was born in CA. One time she went to the dentist, the dentist pulled 2 of her teeth, turned out the dentist pulled out the wrong ones. She just seemed to accept it, it seems to be against their nature or upbring to cause a fuss. If that happened to a white person they would be at their lawyers office suing the dentist the next day.. I know i would have been very pissed off.. JMO..




SailingBum -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 12:01:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

The average citizen give 50% of their pay in taxes. The illegal ZIP


Not really, unless they're being paid under the table. Employers use stolen/random social security numbers to give the illusion that the workers are legal. Taxes and SS is taken from the pay. (This is what was the flag on my SSN, there were taxes and SS being paid on my SSN that weren't from me.)

They will pay some sales tax, although my experience is that they tend to shop at the flea markets or off of illegal grocery trucks that don't collect tax in order to get brands they're familiar with and pay less.

In CA - they cannot have a driver's license or register a car, so we've lost that income. They cannot buy a house, so they don't pay property tax.

So, only partially true.


ALL illegals are paid "under the table" because they dont have SS # even if they have a fake one it only takes a couple of weeks for the employer to be notified and then fired. Because the govt imposes HUGE fines to the employer for using illegals. So basically illegals "can't pay income tax"

BadOne




tj444 -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 12:58:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
ALL illegals are paid "under the table" because they dont have SS # even if they have a fake one it only takes a couple of weeks for the employer to be notified and then fired. Because the govt imposes HUGE fines to the employer for using illegals. So basically illegals "can't pay income tax"

BadOne

not according to this article & based on info from the govt:

"One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year."

""The real question is how many of them pay more than they owe. There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of people in that situation," Ford said."

"The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare."

"The impact on Social Security is significant, though, because most of that money is never claimed by the people who pay it but instead helps cover retirement checks to legal workers."

"That adds up to roughly $90 billion in federal taxes during they eight-year period."

"He calculates that illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation's $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm




OsideGirl -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 1:07:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

ALL illegals are paid "under the table" because they dont have SS # even if they have a fake one it only takes a couple of weeks for the employer to be notified and then fired. Because the govt imposes HUGE fines to the employer for using illegals. So basically illegals "can't pay income tax"



My social security number was used by an illegal immigrant. It does not take "weeks". It took years.




SailingBum -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 2:32:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

ALL illegals are paid "under the table" because they dont have SS # even if they have a fake one it only takes a couple of weeks for the employer to be notified and then fired. Because the govt imposes HUGE fines to the employer for using illegals. So basically illegals "can't pay income tax"



My social security number was used by an illegal immigrant. It does not take "weeks". It took years.


uh ok if you say so. My daughter does this for a living ie hires ppl sometimes unknowing illegals. She tells me she hears back from the feds in weeks. Now that it is online a matter of seconds. But if you say years I believe you.

BadOne




tj444 -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 2:34:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
My social security number was used by an illegal immigrant. It does not take "weeks". It took years.

I dont get the US govt.. seriously, i feel for you, the US govt seems to make everything 3 times harder than it should be.. i dont understand why they didnt just give you a new SSN with credit for the SS payments you made. That would have helped you a lot, I would think. The guy in Canada that the same thing happened to, it wasnt difficult at all for the govt to verify it wasnt him working at the other place and give him a new number.. Part of the problem too is that Americans have very little privacy rights, your SSNs are used for all sorts of things since its become a universal number, in Canada the SIN is private and its just for taxes, some people give it on their credit bureau files but thats not required and legally there you dont have to give it.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 2:40:33 PM)

I'd marry him. But then I have known him for 14 years.

I know he is not illegal, having met his entire family, but even if he was, I'd help him out. Actually, if he was he would have confessed this long ago and we would have dealt.

And um no, you don't report your partner unless you have some childish ideology of good and evil and are incapable of creating your own moral boundaries.

JMO folks.





SailingBum -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 2:46:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
ALL illegals are paid "under the table" because they dont have SS # even if they have a fake one it only takes a couple of weeks for the employer to be notified and then fired. Because the govt imposes HUGE fines to the employer for using illegals. So basically illegals "can't pay income tax"

BadOne

not according to this article & based on info from the govt:

"One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year."

""The real question is how many of them pay more than they owe. There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of people in that situation," Ford said."

"The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare."

"The impact on Social Security is significant, though, because most of that money is never claimed by the people who pay it but instead helps cover retirement checks to legal workers."

"That adds up to roughly $90 billion in federal taxes during they eight-year period."

"He calculates that illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation's $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm




Look Im a employer so I do know a little something about this. It is impossible for me to pay a employees taxes without a SS #. Ok so they give me a fake SS #. So the IRS sends me a letter within a couple of weeks <you can do it online now in seconds>saying this is not either A. Not valid or B this SS is registered to some one else.

So I go to the employee and explain the situation to them. One of two things typically happen, A honest mistake or they quit showing up for work. So yes they all have to be paid under the table to continue to work there for any length of time.

Even if the employer scoffs at the IRS. The IRS can and will seize the account until it gets straighten out. They may have gotten away with it in the past but not anymore.


BadOne




tj444 -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 3:24:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
Look Im a employer so I do know a little something about this. It is impossible for me to pay a employees taxes without a SS #. Ok so they give me a fake SS #. So the IRS sends me a letter within a couple of weeks <you can do it online now in seconds>saying this is not either A. Not valid or B this SS is registered to some one else.

So I go to the employee and explain the situation to them. One of two things typically happen, A honest mistake or they quit showing up for work. So yes they all have to be paid under the table to continue to work there for any length of time.

Even if the employer scoffs at the IRS. The IRS can and will seize the account until it gets straighten out. They may have gotten away with it in the past but not anymore.

BadOne

Oh, i dont doubt that the US govt wants it both ways, they want the tax and then they also want to come after employers and fine and seize accounts,.. This article talks about some immigrants using ITINs instead of SSNs and it talks about them writing a check for the taxes when they file their yearly tax returns. Even if they work for a month, employers still send the tax to the govt, the govt isnt gonna send the money back. I would also expect they could form a corporation and get an EIN and operate as a sub-contractor for an employer..

Basically, my point was that illegal immigrants do pay taxes, you stated they paid zip..




OsideGirl -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 4:36:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
My social security number was used by an illegal immigrant. It does not take "weeks". It took years.

I dont get the US govt.. seriously, i feel for you, the US govt seems to make everything 3 times harder than it should be.. i dont understand why they didnt just give you a new SSN with credit for the SS payments you made. That would have helped you a lot, I would think.
By the time everything came to a head, whoever it was stopped using it. It hasn't been used since. The Social Security office says that since its not currently being used and it wasn't full fledged identity theft, they're not going to give me a new one.




tj444 -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 5:47:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
My social security number was used by an illegal immigrant. It does not take "weeks". It took years.

I dont get the US govt.. seriously, i feel for you, the US govt seems to make everything 3 times harder than it should be.. i dont understand why they didnt just give you a new SSN with credit for the SS payments you made. That would have helped you a lot, I would think.
By the time everything came to a head, whoever it was stopped using it. It hasn't been used since. The Social Security office says that since its not currently being used and it wasn't full fledged identity theft, they're not going to give me a new one.

well,.. I hope it never gets used by anyone else again..




LookieNoNookie -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 8:37:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell

If you found out that your M or your sub/slave was an illegal immigrant would you report them?


Do they have really gargantuan tata's?




MrBlue76 -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/24/2012 11:46:35 PM)

When I read the question that opens the thread I thought it was ironic.
It's not. And some of you are really thinking seriously about the posibility of reporting your partner. A person that you have feelings for, and you think about sending him/her back you a place that took so much effort, and many times, risk to leave. (I'm talking about real risk, of being beaten, killed, raped, not risk in the "oh shit, out of Diet Coke and nothing open" way). And that with a person that you are confident that is a good person (or wouldn't be your partner.) And some wouldn't report, but would leave the relationship, instead of helping his/her partner to succeed, to get a legal status, etc.
It's just great.
(And I'm not getting into the whole inmigration debate, which is quite complex, it's about the personal relationship between two people).




tj444 -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/25/2012 8:37:03 AM)

Yeah,.. I have read that the govt will take illegal immigrants from CA, drive them to TX (& vice versa), and drop them off into Mexico there, where they have never been, no clue of where they are, and possibly even dropped into dangerous drug cartel territory..

And too, some illegal immigrants were brought to the US as children,.. they might not even speak Spanish and never been to Mexico, and not know a single soul there.. Being brought to the US as children, they did not have a choice, but they are faced at some point with the consequences..




kalikshama -> RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner was illegal? (2/25/2012 10:20:22 AM)

quote:

When I read the question that opens the thread I thought it was ironic.


The OP often proposes bizarre scenarios that sometimes lead to good conversations.




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