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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/23/2012 3:26:13 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

If we ran the US Goverment like a business:


lol, good one :)

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/23/2012 3:47:37 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

If we ran the US Goverment like a business:


lol, good one :)


Remember Ross Perot? Think about it.

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/23/2012 3:56:46 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		This idea occurred to me as I was reading the OP:

It is fashionable to view the Arab/Muslim world as going through a struggle between traditional forces and the forces of modernity. Could the USA be going through a similar struggle? Is this the core issue of the culture wars?

I'm not sure if this perspective works or not but it will be interesting to hear others' ideas on this perspective.

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/23/2012 4:07:03 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This idea occurred to me as I was reading the OP:

It is fashionable to view the Arab/Muslim world as going through a struggle between traditional forces and the forces of modernity. Could the USA be going through a similar struggle? Is this the core issue of the culture wars?

I'm not sure if this perspective works or not but it will be interesting to hear others' ideas on this perspective.

That's an interesting take on the matter - the forces of Reaction vs Progress in our terms. The good news is that the past will inevitably fade away. The bad news is that it will do a lot of damage before it goes, as shown in the Middle East and elsewhere. We can't just mark it up as inevitable.

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/23/2012 4:20:12 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This idea occurred to me as I was reading the OP:

It is fashionable to view the Arab/Muslim world as going through a struggle between traditional forces and the forces of modernity. Could the USA be going through a similar struggle? Is this the core issue of the culture wars?

I'm not sure if this perspective works or not but it will be interesting to hear others' ideas on this perspective.


I would agree. From "Take back our country," to a lot of other statements about how the US is going in the wrong direction, a lot of Republican efforts seem intended to get us back to our theoretical "Christian roots." Think about the Texas textbook controversy. I think we have a group that thinks that Religion needs to guide society, and a group that supports freedom from religion.
I also think there is a cynical group that was willing to use the christian fears to attack science in order to promote certain other outcomes. But while they may have struck the match, the oil was provided by others.
Honestly, I do not know if our nation can remain half bible belt, half cosmopolitan. I've been mocked for suggesting a peaceful separation, so I won't go there again, but it isn't like both sides will agree to disagree. One side (they know who they are) will not rest as long as the other side exists. After all, what is "The war on Christmas?" It is people saying "Happy holidays." If I wish you a happy holiday, it isn't that I'm denying you your religion, I'm just saying "Sorry, I don't know if you are Christian, Jewish, Pagan, or Zoroastrian, so I'm just going to wish you a fun time at whatever." It's a pretty polite, one might say christian, thought.
But it is attacked BECAUSE it allows for the possibility that someone isn't Christian.
It reminds me of the story I always think of when folks mention prayer in schools (organized prayer, as long as there are pop quizzes there will be prayer in school). My Grandfather was Jewish, and so when the prayers in his school started, he was excused. Tolerant, right?
Then the good christian boys would call him "Jew-boy," and beat him up for not praying with the rest.
When I look at the christian right, I think of those "good christian boys," and think, yep, they are still with us. That is what gives me nightmares...

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/23/2012 7:51:23 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This idea occurred to me as I was reading the OP:

It is fashionable to view the Arab/Muslim world as going through a struggle between traditional forces and the forces of modernity. Could the USA be going through a similar struggle? Is this the core issue of the culture wars?

I'm not sure if this perspective works or not but it will be interesting to hear others' ideas on this perspective.


I believe that the dialectic between tradition and modern has been going on (repeatedly) since the beginning of time. We are simply in another cycle.

And to the OP - Certainly in my lifetime, the Republicans have always been this crazy. I would have to go back to, I don't know, Abraham Lincoln, to think of a time when they weren't quite as crazy. It's kind of been downhill from there.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 2/23/2012 7:53:42 PM >

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/23/2012 9:30:19 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

And to the OP - Certainly in my lifetime, the Republicans have always been this crazy. I would have to go back to, I don't know, Abraham Lincoln, to think of a time when they weren't quite as crazy. It's kind of been downhill from there.

They never were all that civilized right from the start. Read up on Senator Charles Sumner (R Mass) who got up in the Senate in 1856 and made a speech which can best be described as a 'raving, hysterical diatribe' against a Dem senator which went on for two solid days. The thing about the 'Party of Lincoln' was that he was pretty much it. When he died, any hope for an easy end to the Civil War died with him. We are still feeling the effects of Reconstruction to this day.

BTW, members of Lincoln's own cabinet, notably the Secretary of State, referred to him as 'the original baboon'. Seem familiar?

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 12:11:15 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Very true. It often reminds me of Pearl Harbor, not because of a surprise attack that led us directly into war, but because it became an excuse to trample our own Rights. There are many parallels between the internment of Japanese-Americans and the results of the Patriot Act, with the major difference being that the PA applied to everyone not just a single racial group.


It's kind of reminds me of moments from my youth


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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 12:15:32 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

They never were all that civilized right from the start. Read up on Senator Charles Sumner (R Mass) who got up in the Senate in 1856 and made a speech which can best be described as a 'raving, hysterical diatribe' against a Dem senator which went on for two solid days. The thing about the 'Party of Lincoln' was that he was pretty much it. When he died, any hope for an easy end to the Civil War died with him. We are still feeling the effects of Reconstruction to this day


The rapid decay of the party ins rather reminiscent of something


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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 1:17:40 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		From where I sit, it seems that the message of the fundamentalists/looney Right appeals to a lot of people who feel dislocated or uncomfortable with both the nature and particularly the pace of change of the modern world

Fucktoyprincess's observation that there always have been culture wars is astute and helpful. The evolution of values, and the cultural contests that are inherent in that process, are strengths not weaknesses They're signs of a growing, vital culture in a continuous process of adaption to the changing circumstances life presents us with. The absence of culture wars is far more ominous than it sounds - it's the hallmark of a static culture about to enter its death throes.

Perhaps framing the issues in terms of modernity and post-modernity versus a past that we can never return to will help highlight the parallels with similar struggles in other cultures where the issues are more sharply defined (eg Arab/Muslim societies) and far more obvious to the person in the street. It will make it an awful lot easier for the average citizen to realise that the looney Right and religious fundamentalists are simply Western versions of Wahabis and Al Quadas.

That can only help bring about a positive outcome. At the moment, that outcome is far more probable than inevitable.

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 2:08:39 AM   
provfivetine


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Status: offline 		Many Americans are starting to rebel against cultural marxism and neo-keyensianism (the official religion of the 21st century), but the cultural marxists and neo-keynesians use their eschatology-esque arguments to snuff out any debate. Nothing to see here folks. This has been going on for centuries. The only difference now is that the debate has become pantheized.

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 4:28:03 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Got anything to substantiate that?
You can start by defining "cultural marxism", which I suspect in this context means "anybody even slightly to the left of Rush Limbaugh"...)

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 8:11:10 AM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		How can this thread be 20 posts deep and an, admittedly speed reading cursory look,sees no mention of the impact of the religious right?
If I missed someone mentioning it I apologize,I'm packing my shit up and getting out of a hotel room as I type

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 9:24:26 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

How can this thread be 20 posts deep and an, admittedly speed reading cursory look,sees no mention of the impact of the religious right?


There are two "religions" the so-called religious right are into:

1. The religion of what I was going to do anyway, and
2. The religion of what my opinions are at any given time.

In regard to those two, they are devout zealots. As regards any other religion, I see no evidence that there are any substantial number of religious people in the so-called religious right. If anything, they're the hard vanguard of antitheism, damaging religion through slander. This works, because there exists this popular (mis)conception that a religion can have ascribed to it the views of anyone that abandons or defaces it, so long as they still claim to be associated with it.

"It is better to have a thousand idiots attacking your views, than one idiot supporting them." - Voltaire

Seems to me some religions have millions of idiots supporting their views, simply for the lack of being able and willing to doodle on a piece of paper and say "this is our new symbol" and then gather around that instead. Which would, of course, reveal their lack of leadership, direction and any centering force which they can get behind. Abusing religion as a watercooler in this context is just a matter of inertia: pretending they've got any business there avoids the trouble of actually defining themselves and really coming together.

On the other hand, perhaps we should be happy about that, in a way.

If they did, we would have the NSDAP reborn.

Health,
al-Aswad.


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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 10:21:39 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Got anything to substantiate that?
You can start by defining "cultural marxism", which I suspect in this context means "anybody even slightly to the left of Rush Limbaugh"...)
I wuz goin' "WTF is cultural Marxism" meself. And get a load of "eschatology-esque". Oh boy. Bless his heart.

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 2:31:00 PM   
provfivetine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Got anything to substantiate that?
You can start by defining "cultural marxism", which I suspect in this context means "anybody even slightly to the left of Rush Limbaugh"...)


Well, you could actually do some research yourself, but that might be asking a little too much.

Cultural Marxism a sociology that applies the Marxist/Hegelian dialectic to social and cultural phenomenon. Marx actually had little to do with this as he was more concerned with applying the Hegelian dialectic to economic matters; he probably would have thought the whole idea of cultural marxism was silly. It's the Frankfurt School that pioneered this concept. They realized that convincing the public of the merits of socialism was doomed to fail if arguing on economic grounds, so they created this rinky-dink ideology that has become the official creed of the Western World since the 1960's.

Marxism and it's more modernized counterpart, progressivism, are simply pantheized forms of Judeo-Christian-Islamic eschatology. There has been much written on this concept. Find out more here.

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 3:56:15 PM   
cerius1


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Status: offline 		Cultural Marxism: a term used by right wing ideologues to connect any and all ideas that they disagree with to Marxism, thus frightening simpletons while at the same time providing a veneer of intellectualism to their narrow minded and morally bankrupt world view. See Pat Buchanan; John Birch Society

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 4:26:58 PM   
provfivetine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cerius1

Cultural Marxism: a term used by right wing ideologues to connect any and all ideas that they disagree with to Marxism, thus frightening simpletons while at the same time providing a veneer of intellectualism to their narrow minded and morally bankrupt world view. See Pat Buchanan; John Birch Society



Did you not read what I said? Cultural Marxism would have been rejected by Marx, and he himself never had anything to do with it; rather, the Frankfurt School applied a modified form of his dialectic to non-economic social phenomenon. Cultural Marxism/Critical Theory....there's no difference.

Your (first) post reeks of a narrow-minded simpleton. You clearly don't understand the topic at hand.

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 5:06:01 PM   
cerius1


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Joined: 9/27/2011
Status: offline 		Since I made no reference to your post I neither know nor care what you are ranting about. And I noticed nothing in the TOS indicating that a minimum number of posts is required in order to define “Cultural Marxism”.

Your (328th) post reeks of defensiveness and arrogance.

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RE: Republican's weren't always THIS crazy. - 2/24/2012 5:42:33 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Many Americans are starting to rebel against cultural marxism and neo-keyensianism (the official religion of the 21st century), but the cultural marxists and neo-keynesians use their eschatology-esque arguments to snuff out any debate. Nothing to see here folks. This has been going on for centuries. The only difference now is that the debate has become pantheized.


Cultural marxism is just a term thrown up by, paleoconservatives, most of whom dont even know the difference between social and socialism, let alone have a clue about marxism. Its just another term fed to the sheep by fox news and Limbaugh, which you all "rush" out (pun intended) and use in chat forums.


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