quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

FR
So is he going to try and change the amendment? LOL good luck with that.
This does not mean that one religion has the right to suddenly change the rules over any other religion or non religious persons personal rights.
My interpretation is that the religious right are scrabbling for a way to gain more control, thru "smaller government" and overwhelming religious moral governing. They are shitting themselves, and it shows in Santorums stance, and Newts too
Fuck that for a game of soldiers

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Not only would Jesus oppose the agenda being pushed in his name, but Jesus would be seen as a nut case by the religious right. I once told my mother that if Jesus were walking around today, the religious right would have him in a straight jacket and a mental hospital in short order.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

John F. Kennedy said in Houston TX that he believed in an America where the separation of church and state was absolute.

Rick Santorum said he does not believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute.


Considering that the founding fathers made it clear that there was to be a separation of church and state, where do you fall in the two statements? When you figure in that all nine Supreme Court Justices have stated there is a wall of separation between church and state in the US, how can Santorum make such a statement that is clearly defying the Constitution of the United States?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrandPoobah

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

John F. Kennedy said in Houston TX that he believed in an America where the separation of church and state was absolute.

Rick Santorum said he does not believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute.


Considering that the founding fathers made it clear that there was to be a separation of church and state, where do you fall in the two statements? When you figure in that all nine Supreme Court Justices have stated there is a wall of separation between church and state in the US, how can Santorum make such a statement that is clearly defying the Constitution of the United States?

Santorum can make the statement for two reasons. First, regardless of the law (or Constitution) that's truly what he believes. Of course, HE can't actually do very much without the approval of Congress, so "wanting it" and "getting it" would be two different things. Also...obviously, the Supreme Court could thwart anything crazy that Congress passes, and could even weigh in on "rules" or edicts from within the Executive branch, so what he might want and what he's able to do is limited. That doesn't mean he wouldn't try, and make a real mess in doing so.

The second reason is more nuanced. While it is true that the founding fathers specifically separated Church and State, they did so for very specific reasons. The original colonies were religiously diverse, and would never have agreed on a specific "State Church" in any case. However, the Founding Fathers were, almost without exception, strongly religious people. Their religion affected most everything they did. So, they didn't think of government as being inherently "heathen" just not bound to a particular church. I'm sure they often went home and "prayed" about the decisions they were expecting to make, and sought guidance wherever they could find it. They just didn't need to say much about that...because it was a given.

Today, the religious or moral background of each of us colors the decisions we make. [yes and the supreme court ruled that atheism and secular humanism are religions so where do you plan on we going with this to escape the evils of religion now?] It is unlikely that we could have a debate about abortion without religious beliefs coloring our views. That doesn't automatically mean the "boundary" has been crossed, it just means that we could disagree, and the reasons behind our disagreement might well be our view of religion. That's true everywhere, not just in government.

The real difference is that people like Santorum have openly stated they wish to bring their own religious beliefs directly into the government, crafting laws to enforce those beliefs upon others, and therein is the problem. I am allowed to believe as I wish, and, within the law, practice or apply those beliefs. I am NOT allowed to force those beliefs upon others. [BUT BUT BUT that IS what a democracy does in ALL things! Now what?] Santorum says what he does, partly because that's what he believes, and partly because that's what a portion of his audience wants to hear. In November, I suspect those same statements would ensure he was the Biggest Loser a presidential election has ever seen. Time will tell, I guess.

quote:

Rat Habitat
Rats are either terrestrial or arboreal in nature, although rats preferring one habitat are capable of inhabiting others. The Norway rat and roof rat are the two most common North American rat species. They are terrestrial and arboreal, respectively.

Norway rats are most commonly burrowers. They build their nests outside the walls of homes or in various clumps of vegetation. Norway rats may also construct their homes beneath the edges of sidewalks or patios.

As is implied by their name, roof rats prefer arboreal habitats. They live in yucca, palm and cypress trees, as well as in elevated areas of human homes. Roof rats can be found living in attics, rafters, eaves and on roofs. They may also choose to nest in non-arboreal vegetation, such as shrubs, honeysuckle and tall grasses.

right off of the orkin site

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Not only would Jesus oppose the agenda being pushed in his name, but Jesus would be seen as a nut case by the religious right. I once told my mother that if Jesus were walking around today, the religious right would have him in a straight jacket and a mental hospital in short order.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

FR
The founders wanted there to be no state
religion. No Church of America. They wanted
this so American citizens would have freedom
to worship as they chose and could not be
persecuted for their religious beliefs.
There would also be no pope or archbishop
across the way putting his two cents in.
JFK as the first Catholic president had to reiterate
before and after he was elected that the Pope
wasn't running things or offering undue influence
because JFK was Catholic.
The doctrines of no sect can decide or make
the laws in a democracy. That's one of the things
that distinguishes a democracy from a theocracy.

quote:

Considering that the founding fathers made it clear that there was to be a separation of church and state, where do you fall in the two statements? When you figure in that all nine Supreme Court Justices have stated there is a wall of separation between church and state in the US, how can Santorum make such a statement that is clearly defying the Constitution of the United States?

quote:

ORIGINAL: epeterson11

All of you scholars will notice that nowhere does our Bill of rights mention a, “separation of church and state.” Raise your hand if you can tell me from where that phrase originally emanates.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”


This what Santorum said: “The idea that the church can have no influence or involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country. This is the First Amendment. The First Amendment says 'free exercise of religion,' that means bringing everybody, people of faith and no faith into the public square.”

I don’t hear Santoum advocating for a state religion. What Santorum was saying is that religion is part of the composition of the American psyche. Over 80% of Americans identify with a specific religious denomination with over 60% being Christians. It’s indisputable that the foundation of our law is Judeo Christian morality and more specifically the 10 commandments. So while we have no official state religion, Santorum does not want to disenfranchise religious people from access to government and they shouldn’t be anymore than atheists or any other particular group should be. Especially not us kinksters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: epeterson11

All of you scholars will notice that nowhere does our Bill of rights mention a, “separation of church and state.” Raise your hand if you can tell me from where that phrase originally emanates.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”


This what Santorum said: “The idea that the church can have no influence or involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country. This is the First Amendment. The First Amendment says 'free exercise of religion,' that means bringing everybody, people of faith and no faith into the public square.”

I don’t hear Santoum advocating for a state religion. What Santorum was saying is that religion is part of the composition of the American psyche. Over 80% of Americans identify with a specific religious denomination with over 60% being Christians. It’s indisputable that the foundation of our law is Judeo Christian morality and more specifically the 10 commandments. So while we have no official state religion, Santorum does not want to disenfranchise religious people from access to government and they shouldn’t be anymore than atheists or any other particular group should be. Especially not us kinksters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: epeterson11

All of you scholars will notice that nowhere does our Bill of rights mention a, “separation of church and state.” Raise your hand if you can tell me from where that phrase originally emanates.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrandPoobah

The distinction, which he has made clear, is that he wishes to take specific religious beliefs and make them the law of the land. THAT would constitute a direct threat to "the free exercise thereof" if I'm forced to believe what someone else tells me to believe. Back in the days of Kennedy's campaign, the fear was that the Pope would become, de facto, the President. Kennedy said that wouldn't be the case, and it never came up again during his administration. Santorum, on the other hand, is openly saying it would, or will, be the case if he's elected. If the church (i.e.the Pope) tells him that's what he, as a Catholic, should believe, then he's publicly stated that's what he'd seek as the law of the land.

Therein lies the difference, and the reason people fear for their Constitutional freedoms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
They don't have a vote, why do you think they should have a voice?