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Social power exchange - 2/26/2012 3:49:44 PM

Thaelog

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I think it is always interesting to see power exchange in any form, especially the automatic kind that just comes from our being social animals and the need for hierarchy.

I was just looking at upcoming events on my FB and I realized that 95% of the social events planned in my group of friends tend to be planned by just 2 or 3 of us and the other 35 or so other friends just tend to fall in.

That got me to thinking how often that happens in just little decisions in the group such as what to have for dinner or what board game to play. The same handful of people tend to make those decisions too. Its not even like there is any conflict in the decision making process, its just assumed these people will make the call and everyone else goes with the flow.

For all that is unique and special about being human, we sure do act like a pack of dogs sometime LOL.

_____________________________

She asked if it would hurt
I smiled and said no
The lie ran down my chin like embryo

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RE: Social power exchange - 2/26/2012 4:33:19 PM

LoreBook

Posts: 257
Joined: 2/22/2012
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Wooot!!
I get to reply 1st!

As far as your post goes -- well, yeah. That's the way things work.

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(in reply to Thaelog)

Post #: 2

RE: Social power exchange - 2/26/2012 6:38:58 PM

kalikshama

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When I'm the most extroverted one in a relationship, I become the social secretary. M is more extroverted, so he's the ss now.

I get to be in charge in the kitchen though :)

(in reply to Thaelog)

Post #: 3

RE: Social power exchange - 2/26/2012 7:36:38 PM

FallenStar82

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What's most interesting to me is when someone takes on an assuming position or role, merely being a bystander, and somehow their inherent leadership ability (or maybe it's animal magnetism

), is still observed/felt by others, and the group is drawn to them to make the decision. I say this because I have observed these same behaviors recurring time and again. I don't know all the psychology, sociology, etc. behind it, but I would say our "group" mentality is most definitely innate and that leaders can be sussed out, whether they want to be or not.

-N.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 4

RE: Social power exchange - 2/27/2012 12:18:50 AM

Kana

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Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thaelog

I think it is always interesting to see power exchange in any form, especially the automatic kind that just comes from our being social animals and the need for hierarchy.

I was just looking at upcoming events on my FB and I realized that 95% of the social events planned in my group of friends tend to be planned by just 2 or 3 of us and the other 35 or so other friends just tend to fall in.

That got me to thinking how often that happens in just little decisions in the group such as what to have for dinner or what board game to play. The same handful of people tend to make those decisions too. Its not even like there is any conflict in the decision making process, its just assumed these people will make the call and everyone else goes with the flow.

For all that is unique and special about being human, we sure do act like a pack of dogs sometime LOL.

It's a standard rule of thumb for volunteer organizations, grass roots type deals and such that 5% of the people do 95% of the work, and that 95% of the time, it's the same 5% doing the work, no matter what the work is.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Thaelog)

Post #: 5

RE: Social power exchange - 2/27/2012 10:06:38 AM

DennisNajee

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Joined: 3/30/2010
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I tend to think the situation you pointed out shows less about domination/submission and more of lazy versus non-lazy. The 90/10 rule is in play: 90% of the people do nothing other than bitching about what the 10% who do the work did.

This trend seems to cross all lines. I wish it were a domination/submission criteria. If that were the case, the % of dominants would order the percentage of submissives to do the work which would account for more than 5%-10% involved.

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 6

RE: Social power exchange - 2/27/2012 11:16:00 AM

Rochsub2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FallenStar82
somehow their inherent leadership ability (or maybe it's animal magnetism ), is still observed/felt by others, and the group is drawn to them to make the decision.

This happens to me all the time. I have a very strong personality, and I always seem to end up in charge. Even among a group of strangers, they always seem to defer to me. I don't know why that is. I don't lobby to be in charge. People just tend to ask me what I think they should do. Then they do what I say.

In the business world, and in my social time, I'm always in charge. But surprisingly, I prefer to be submissive in relationships. So I don't think that social power necessarily translates to being dominant in a BDSM context.

But I do agree that there is a social nature to humans that somehow inherently recognizes and adheres to a pecking order (even among strangers).

(in reply to FallenStar82)

Post #: 7

RE: Social power exchange - 2/27/2012 11:18:46 AM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
But I do agree that there is a social nature to humans that somehow inherently recognizes and adheres to a pecking order (even among strangers).

Yes, me too. I actually think it spans more than "humans". I'm tempted to say something like "most land animals and birds".

I also agree that someone's proclivities in either a sexual or relationship sense don't at all align with their proclivities in the larger social sense.

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Post #: 8

RE: Social power exchange - 2/27/2012 11:56:52 AM

DesFIP

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I don't see that as due to dominance as much as the people pushing to do stuff are the most extroverted. They want to go out so they call everyone up and try to solicit people to go see the movie with them. The more introverted people aren't going to start interactions.

And I disagree that introversion is equivalent to laziness.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 2/27/2012 12:01:42 PM >

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RE: Social power exchange - 2/27/2012 12:36:47 PM

tameeks

Posts: 173
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't see that as due to dominance as much as the people pushing to do stuff are the most extroverted. They want to go out so they call everyone up and try to solicit people to go see the movie with them. The more introverted people aren't going to start interactions.

And I disagree that introversion is equivalent to laziness.

I agree 100% with the bolded above.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 10

RE: Social power exchange - 2/27/2012 1:54:58 PM

Thaelog

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Joined: 2/22/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't see that as due to dominance as much as the people pushing to do stuff are the most extroverted. They want to go out so they call everyone up and try to solicit people to go see the movie with them. The more introverted people aren't going to start interactions.

And I disagree that introversion is equivalent to laziness.

By taking the initiative you control the interaction. I don't see where that isn't dominance.

If you have a person or persons who are consistently guiding the actions of an individual or a group, that is the essence of leadership. We express the hierarchy at every level of our societies. All governments reflect this. Power given to a few to be exercised for the benefit (arguable in many cases but theoretically how it goes) of the whole. Our jobs are pyramidal power structures. Our families... I don't see the kids ruling the roost. All around us is the A-B structure.

That's not to say people can't be dominant in one aspect of their lives and submissive in another. I see it all the time, but as a species we are leaders and followers.

_____________________________

She asked if it would hurt
I smiled and said no
The lie ran down my chin like embryo

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 11

RE: Social power exchange - 2/27/2012 7:14:03 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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It isn't dominance because I don't feel compelled to go along with it. I'm an extreme introvert. It takes huge amounts of energy for me to interact with someone. If, in addition, I had to do all the planning then the rest of them would be going out and I wouldn't show.

Would you say also that someone with a chronic illness who was frequently unable to plan things is also submissive? Or would you understand that the exigencies of the disease causes this? No difference. I'm not submissive to them. I simply can't do it all.

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Post #: 12

RE: Social power exchange - 2/27/2012 8:25:51 PM

Thaelog

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Joined: 2/22/2012
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It really isn't about what we don't do. It is about what we do... do (sorry), and why we do it.

I think the loggerhead here is the definition of dominance and submission. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am lead to believe by your stated position that dominance is asserted through imperative commands.

I hate quoting actual dictionary definitions because it always feels like I am beating someone over the head. Please don't take it as such. Just trying to offer clarity to my thought process.

Dominant: ruling, governing, or controlling; having or exerting authority or influence

Submit:

1. to give over or yield to the power or authority of another (often used reflexively).
2. to subject to some kind of treatment or influence.

I italicize influence because that is really what I am talking about in this instance.

Whenever there is any imbalance of influence in any interaction, whether it is a command or a suggestion, dominance and submission is present. Even just bringing up a topic is exerting influence because you began the conversation and influenced others into thinking about it. There will always be someone who dominates and someone who acquiesces in any decision process involving 2 or more people. The only real difference is scale.

To be precise, I don't place any particular value on either state since we are all both the top and bottom probably hundreds of times a day.

_____________________________

She asked if it would hurt
I smiled and said no
The lie ran down my chin like embryo

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 13

RE: Social power exchange - 2/27/2012 8:58:12 PM

FallenStar82

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Joined: 2/9/2012
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I would say that people can be different ways in different social circles, and that not all leaders are dominant in every situation. While among others in a general social circle, yes, I can fall into the leadership position without trying. And when necessary, I work at extroversion, as that is the dominant feature of economically successful people as a general rule. However, left to my own devices, I am introverted and prefer not to constantly "lead," nor follow, but just to be. Being the D or M in a D/s or M/s exchange, or even the the s, does not mean that in every moment or aspect of our respective lives we represent those characteristics, whereas others might. What is important is to recognize in yourself where those boundaries lie, and where you allow the influence of others to guide you, and where you do not.

-N.

(in reply to Thaelog)

Post #: 14

RE: Social power exchange - 2/28/2012 4:41:51 AM

BeIgnited

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I also think this has more to do with introversion/extroversion than dominance/submission.

Generally, I'm pretty introverted (and have a bit of social anxiety), but among my close group of friends, I tend to be the social cruise director, not so much because I like being in charge but because I like planning activities that the people I care about will (hopefully) enjoy and I like seeing them happy. I try and make things as convenient as possible and pick activities/events that I know everyone will like. I wouldn't call it "service" because I'm not "serving" my friends, but it's coming from the same place. I do similar things for my dominant-- I bought him tickets to see Ira Glass for his birthday in a few months, for example-- not because I want to be in charge of what we do, but because I knew he'd really enjoy going.

(in reply to FallenStar82)

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RE: Social power exchange - 2/28/2012 5:11:02 AM

wolf223

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It's a standard rule of thumb for volunteer organizations, grass roots type deals and such that 5% of the people do 95% of the work, and that 95% of the time, it's the same 5% doing the work, no matter what the work is.
[/quote]

And the same 2% complaining the 98% aren't doing it right.

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 16

RE: Social power exchange - 2/28/2012 6:11:03 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thaelog

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am lead to believe by your stated position that dominance is asserted through imperative commands.

Dominant: ruling, governing, or controlling; having or exerting authority or influence

Submit:

1. to give over or yield to the power or authority of another (often used reflexively).
2. to subject to some kind of treatment or influence.

Yes, you're wrong. I am submissive to people who I feel exert a certain energy.
Someone calling me up and saying "how about we meet at that new wine bar" doesn't have any power, authority or influence over me. I don't feel any desire to please them.

If that day, I have the energy to interact and I like the idea of what they want to do, then I'm more likely to agree simply because it pleases me. Not because it will please them. If they suggest going to an action movie, I'll turn it down without any sorrow or guilt about disappointing them.

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Post #: 17

RE: Social power exchange - 2/28/2012 8:42:22 PM

Casteele

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From: Near Sacramento, California, USA
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Des, strictly speaking by the parameters set forth, he's not really wrong. Given the example you gave and the point he was making.. If your friend had not called you up to go do something, would you just spontaneously gone out and did that thing with them void of any influence at all? Influence does not mean control or forced. It does not mean you cannot reject the what the other is attempting to influence you to do. At the lowest technical level, your friend calling you up influenced you to act, whether it was to accept or reject their offer.. They acted, you reacted.

There's definitely some interesting underlying dynamics here that have got me thinking.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 18

RE: Social power exchange - 2/29/2012 5:41:59 AM

hellionsLight

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/18/2011
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It happens. Not sure what else to say, lol

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RE: Social power exchange - 2/29/2012 9:16:01 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Casteele

Des, strictly speaking by the parameters set forth, he's not really wrong. Given the example you gave and the point he was making.. If your friend had not called you up to go do something, would you just spontaneously gone out and did that thing with them void of any influence at all? Influence does not mean control or forced. It does not mean you cannot reject the what the other is attempting to influence you to do. At the lowest technical level, your friend calling you up influenced you to act, whether it was to accept or reject their offer.. They acted, you reacted.

There's definitely some interesting underlying dynamics here that have got me thinking.

If someone hadn't called me up with a suggestion I wouldn't have done anything because I'm really much happier being a home body. It's more likely that I am tempted by what they suggest instead of being influenced by them. It isn't the person but the activity that I would respond to.

And since my usual response is to decline, do you also believe that response qualifies as dominance and submission?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

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Post #: 20

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