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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 6:56:23 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

I don't think anybody can be surprised anymore by the fact that Santorum will have us in a nuclear war by the end of his first year in office, god wills it.


I'd be surprised if Santorum even had a first year in office.

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 7:07:02 PM   
rockspider


Posts: 633
Joined: 9/26/2009
Status: offline 		As long as the afghans haven't apologised for the destruction of those enormous 1500 year old statues they blew up because they where buddist, i can't see any need for an apology. Neither any form of respect for their socalled religion.

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 7:12:51 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		I feel the same about all religions

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 7:25:23 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

FR

He wants to apologize for burned Korans in another country but has no problem on trampling on First Amendment rights in regards to the Cotnraception Mandate.

He's just a common hypocrite in my eyes, and always has been.


Yes, the Catholic Church has a first amendment right to take taxpayer dollars, subcontract a job for the government, and use their status as low bid to prevent those folks working for the Federal Government from using birth control...

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 7:33:25 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -- Sinclair Lewis

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 7:45:38 PM   
Casteele


Posts: 655
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From: Near Sacramento, California, USA
Status: offline 		IMHO, a mistake or accident in which one party is injured requires an apology from the side that committed the injury. Failure to provide an apology, in my eyes, is claiming that it was not a mistake or accident, but intentional. It does not matter to me if it was burning Quran, or the Bible, or a shipment of Penthouse magazines. Same thing I see a lot on the CM forums; Lots of "discussions" with lectures about taking responsibility and owning up to your own failures and mistakes, apologizing, and correcting them.

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 8:08:32 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Casteele

IMHO, a mistake or accident in which one party is injured requires an apology from the side that committed the injury. Failure to provide an apology, in my eyes, is claiming that it was not a mistake or accident, but intentional. It does not matter to me if it was burning Quran, or the Bible, or a shipment of Penthouse magazines. Same thing I see a lot on the CM forums; Lots of "discussions" with lectures about taking responsibility and owning up to your own failures and mistakes, apologizing, and correcting them.



I could definitely see getting violent if someone burnt a shipment of penthouse magazines...

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 8:30:17 PM   
Winterapple


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockspider

As long as the afghans haven't apologised for the destruction of those enormous 1500 year old statues they blew up because they where buddist, i can't see any need for an apology. Neither any form of respect for their socalled religion.

That was the Taliban. The president didn't
apologize to the Taliban.

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 8:31:51 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		This may be slightly off topic but please indulge me:

The furore over Frothy Mix's idiotic stance on the apology might be masking a failure to grasp the real significance of the reaction in Afghanistan to the burning of Korans.

There is no tradition of democracy or open dissent in most of the Muslim world. Those people who wish to express their dissent from the policies of whatever regime is current in their country have limited options. The price paid for open political dissent can be extreme - torture, imprisonment and even death.

Religion offers Arabs and Muslims a relatively safe platform from which they can express their dissent. This is one of the underlying reasons why religious fundamentalism has such appeal to citizens of those countries. Bearing this in mind, I feel that there is a good case for interpreting the riots in Afghanistan as being over a lot more than desecration of the Holy Book*. To me it seems to have a very political dimension too.

In all the interviews I have seem with rioters, they have directed their anger clearly at "foreign forces" and "occupation" as much the issue of desecration. So, at one level, the riots are an expression of the voice of the Afghani people who are sick and humiliated by the foreign occupation of their country and want rid of it. This perspective offers a far more illuminating explanation of the extent and depth of the fury being expressed by Afghanis. And it ought to shape how the West reacts to the voices of Afghanis - we can't get out of yet another pointless unwinnable war in Muslim lands quickly enough IMHO

In my view, if were are going to discuss issues relating to the riots, examining this perspective will offer far more insight that merely asking if it was right or wrong to apologise.

* This is NOT to assert that there is no religious dimension - there most certainly are religious factors in operation here.

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 8:59:00 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
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Status: offline 		You are correct in principle, i.e., it's a convenient excuse that some idiot in state stupidly furnished, but is it the "Afghani people" or Afghani men?

Women have been making some progress, even just selling handicrafts on the internet, while the men are mostly stuck collecting scrap metal from bombs, since we put a big crimp in Poppy cultivation, which is pretty much their only export industry.


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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/26/2012 10:19:20 PM   
Fightdirecto


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Status: offline 		Sadly, there are some Americans who have watched too many reruns of the John Wayne movie "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon" in which Wayne's character says several times, "Never apologize or say you're sorry - it's a sign of weakness".

Of course, basing the nation's foreign policy on a frequently repeated line from a John Wayne movie shows the level of intelligence of some Americans. Just another application of self-centered "American Exceptionalism".

As for Saint Rick, if Afghans burned two Roman Catholic Prayer Books, he'd be demanding we lob some nuclear bombs on the entire country of Afghanistain.

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/27/2012 3:17:26 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Heres the apology President Obama should have offered.


Did you orgasm watching that ?

Lets not foregt which President put Karzai in office.
Lets not forget President Obama has already set a "leave by date"

(in reply to subrob1967)
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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/27/2012 3:47:20 AM   
thishereboi


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Status: offline 		How about c) is so desperate he is grasping at anything that might bring him in one vote no matter how ludicrous.

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/27/2012 5:43:06 AM   
erieangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

FR

He wants to apologize for burned Korans in another country but has no problem on trampling on First Amendment rights in regards to the Cotnraception Mandate.

He's just a common hypocrite in my eyes, and always has been.



As was previously noted in another reply, the contraception mandate has been in place 2000 all that has changed is that now there is no copay for my birth control.

As for First Amendment rights--if you work for a religious organization, there is nothing in that mandate that says you have to take birth control, but the health insurance your employer provides you must provide for THAT CHOICE. See how that works?

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/27/2012 6:11:54 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		When does religious liberty shift from the freedom to practice one's faith to the imposition of that faith on a diverse public? Or to put it another way - when does liberty for some become discrimination against others?

This is more than a theoretical question. It’s one that is playing out right now with a proposed federal rule that implements part of the Affordable Care Act. The rule requires employers to include in their health insurance plans coverage for contraception and other basic preventive health services. The real-life question has to do with religious organizations that are employers but believe contraception is a sin. Should they be exempt from the rule?

According to the Department of Health and Human Services, which promulgated the proposed rule, the answer is a qualified yes. But a number of religious organizations that would not be exempt under the rule are fighting to broaden its exemption requirements to include them.

The proposed HHS rule says that employers must meet the following criteria in order to qualify:

1. The purpose of the organization is to inculcate religious values.

2. The organization primarily employs those who share the religious tenets of the organization.

3. The organization primarily serves those who share the religious tenets of the organization.

4. The organization is a nonprofit under the IRS Code.

That leaves out large Catholic universities such as Notre Dame that employ people of many different religions—as well as those with no religion—yet do not want their health care plans to cover contraception. They argue that contraception violates Catholic teachings and to be forced to include it is a serious infringement of their religious liberty.

Those on the other side argue that religious organizations such as Notre Dame that choose to operate in a pluralistic secular democracy must respect the religious liberty and consciences of their employees, many of whom are not Catholic—or religious at all. For virtually all these workers, contraception is not a sin but an essential part of moral responsibility around creating a family and parenting. To deny them access to such a basic health service is to unfairly impose a particular set of theological beliefs on people who believe differently.

What’s more, say proponents of the rule, this isn’t even a matter of the Catholic Church versus other religions, since the vast majority of Catholic women—98 percent, according to the Guttmacher Institute—use contraception. Such a statistic raises an important question: Who is the Catholic Church? Is it the millions of people in the pews who disregard official church teachings in some cases—or is it a much smaller group of church leaders?

Religious organizations cannot have it both ways. They cannot on the one hand claim a religious exemption that requires everyone who works for them to abide by their religious beliefs, and at the same time employ people whose worldview and beliefs are very different from theirs. Here’s where religious liberty for some is likely to turn into religious discrimination against others.

One last point: A principle that virtually everyone can agree on is the importance of reducing the need for abortion in the United States. A sure way to do that is to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies by making contraception accessible and affordable. Another desirable goal is to increase the number of healthy pregnancies, healthy babies, and strong families—all of which are more likely when women use contraception to plan their families and ensure healthy intervals between their children.

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/27/2012 7:07:21 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its Santorum... consider the source

This....and I will add,it is nothing (his stance over Obama's "apology")more than political bullshit.
While conceding that US forces did in fact mistakenly burn some korans Santurom holds to the line that the President should not have apologized ?
What the fuch ,hod does one admit we made a mistake and at the same time hold the line that we should not apologize for that mistake?
Well if one wants to continue the Romney(and conservative's in general)bullshit that this President has went around the world "apologizing for America" you jump on this and lump it in with the rest of the lies and distortions.
Santurom is an ass...and if the rank and file of the Republican party puts him forth as their candidate for the office of the Presidency they are ass's too
And the GOP is committing institutional suicide

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/27/2012 7:19:39 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
As for Saint Rick, if Afghans burned two Roman Catholic Prayer Books, he'd be demanding we lob some nuclear bombs on the entire country of Afghanistain.

A large number of bibles were burnt in Afghanistan by the US military in 2009 to prevent proselytizing, which would anger Muslims there a great deal. Its worth remembering as well that bible burnings are certainly not an infrequent phenomenon in the Muslim world, for example routine burnings in Saudi Arabia and in Iran.

Its interesting that the recent reports in the mainstream media repeatedly stated how sacred the Koran is in the Islamic world almost as if it was apologism for the violence. After the recent controversies about the pastor in Florida such a fact is well known. Its unfortunate they don't have as much of an appreciation for human life as pieces of printed paper.

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RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/27/2012 7:35:09 AM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its Santorum... consider the source

This....and I will add,it is nothing (his stance over Obama's "apology")more than political bullshit.
While conceding that US forces did in fact mistakenly burn some korans Santurom holds to the line that the President should not have apologized ?
What the fuch ,hod does one admit we made a mistake and at the same time hold the line that we should not apologize for that mistake?
Well if one wants to continue the Romney(and conservative's in general)bullshit that this President has went around the world "apologizing for America" you jump on this and lump it in with the rest of the lies and distortions.
Santurom is an ass...and if the rank and file of the Republican party puts him forth as their candidate for the office of the Presidency they are ass's too
And the GOP is committing institutional suicide


If you look at US history, it seems that the "party of the rich," seems to need to drop it's name and form anew from time to time. The Republicans of today would mostly agree with the Federalists and Whigs, but have an entirely different name. Heck, the "Grand Old Party," is half the age of the Democratic party (originally Democrat/Republican party in Jefferson's time).
Maybe they have decided it is time for another name change?

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/27/2012 7:43:10 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		If the Republicans were to rename themselves "Frothy And The Wingnuts" has a certain ring to it...

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weak... - 2/27/2012 7:45:17 AM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
As for Saint Rick, if Afghans burned two Roman Catholic Prayer Books, he'd be demanding we lob some nuclear bombs on the entire country of Afghanistain.

A large number of bibles were burnt in Afghanistan by the US military in 2009 to prevent proselytizing, which would anger Muslims there a great deal. Its worth remembering as well that bible burnings are certainly not an infrequent phenomenon in the Muslim world, for example routine burnings in Saudi Arabia and in Iran.

Its interesting that the recent reports in the mainstream media repeatedly stated how sacred the Koran is in the Islamic world almost as if it was apologism for the violence. After the recent controversies about the pastor in Florida such a fact is well known. Its unfortunate they don't have as much of an appreciation for human life as pieces of printed paper.


You know, a lot of folks have brought up that Muslims are being uncool killing over their religion, and I get that man...
But, ya know, there are two sides to every coin, ya know?
Maybe what we need to think about is that more than one person can be uncool. Maybe the folks who shoot folks about Korans are uncool, and pastors who burn Korans knowing that it will get US soldiers shot are uncool too, you know man?
Looking at it that way, it was pretty cool of the Pres to apologize and, like, try to make nice so our soldiers don't get shot at, right man?
Hey, hey, hey, listen, I just, I just got the coolest idea.
So we make Pot legal, all over the US, but only if it comes from Afghanistan. Then they get a crop they can grow that will make money, and we get legal pot!
And hey, once it is legal over here, maybe a lot of folks around here smoke it and learn to chill out.
And hey, maybe once they are growing it, they will smoke it and learn to chill out.
Duuuuuuuude....

(in reply to Anaxagoras)
Profile   Post #: 40
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