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Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and steriliz... - 2/28/2012 4:00:31 PM   
kalikshama


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I'm not sure what to think of this. My brother has a condition similar to schizophrenia and his life is indeed in danger when he goes off his meds. Although I don't like it, I can see the judge's reasoning for the abortion. I don't like the sterilization order though - surely the judge could have ordered shots of Depo instead.

Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion ruling

A retired Massachusetts judge on Tuesday defended her decision to order a mentally ill woman to have an abortion and be sterilized against her wishes...

Christina Harms said she believes the schizophrenic woman would have chosen to have an abortion if she had been mentally competent. In her ruling, she granted a petition from the woman’s parents to have their daughter declared incompetent and awarded guardianship to them for the purpose of consenting to the abortion.

...The 31-year-old woman has not been named; she was identified in court papers only as “Mary Moe.’’ She had characterized herself as “very Catholic’’ and said she was opposed to having an abortion. Her parents had said their daughter was not a devout Catholic; they sought consent from the court for an abortion.

Harms said the woman had been taken off some of her anti-psychotic drugs because the medications could have harmed the fetus. After hearing from the woman herself and from her parents, Harms said she found that the woman had severe delusions — including her belief that she was not pregnant — and was not competent to decide whether to have an abortion. Harms said she also found that the woman, if she had been mentally competent, would have chosen an abortion to protect her own well-being.

“I viewed the interruption of Mary’s full medical regimen as potentially life-threatening. If Mary understood this, which my observation of her behavior, demeanor, and responses indicated that she did not, I believed then, as I do now, that she would elect to abort the pregnancy in order to protect her own well-being,’’ Harms wrote in her letter to her former colleagues on the bench.

...Her written ruling remains sealed under family court rules, but the gist of it became public after the state Appeals Court overturned the decision on Jan. 17.

...The court said no one had requested sterilization and said Harms “appears to have simply produced the requirement out of thin air.’’

Harms said she based her sterilization order on concerns that the woman had had two previous pregnancies and would continue to have unprotected sex, unplanned pregnancies and therefore “serial abortions.’’ The woman had aborted one of her earlier pregnancies. Her parents are raising a child she gave birth to from the other pregnancy.

...





< Message edited by kalikshama -- 2/28/2012 4:14:53 PM >
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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/28/2012 4:07:07 PM   
kalikshama


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Jan 18 update:

http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20220118decision_blasts_judges_order_to_force_abortion_ruling_to_coax_mentally_ill_woman_sparks_outrage

“No party requested this measure ... and the judge appears to have simply produced the requirement out of thin air,” state Appellate Court Associate Justice Andrew R. Grainger wrote, reversing newly retired Norfolk Probate and Family Court Judge Christina Harms’ Jan. 6 ruling in the case, handing the abortion decision to another judge.








< Message edited by kalikshama -- 2/28/2012 4:11:00 PM >

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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/28/2012 4:08:51 PM   
SoftBonds


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Where are the men who knocked up a certifiably insane woman? I mean, sure, you can claim it takes two to tango all you like, but that is when both parties are legally competent. Three times she has gotten pregnant. Those men should be ashamed of themselves...
I mean, what is the difference between sex with a woman who isn't sane and sex with a woman who is passed out drunk or otherwise unable to make a choice about sex?

< Message edited by SoftBonds -- 2/28/2012 4:12:34 PM >


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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/28/2012 6:10:04 PM   
xssve


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There is no sex like crazy bitch sex - it's living with them the rest of the time that's the hard part.

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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/28/2012 6:31:23 PM   
Rule


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My first question is: Why is she schizophrenic?

I would guess that the reason is an infection by some virus.

My second question is: If so, is it to be preferred that someone who is vulnerable to such an infection reproduce himself?

I would opt for it being not recommendable to pass on the alleles that confer the vulnerability.

On the other hand: Having a large progeny usually is a good trait according to evolution theory. So being susceptible to schizophrenia actually might confer an evolutionary advantage.

Then too: Having children may be the only thing this woman may still excel at. Taking that ability away too is likely to devastate whatever self-worth she has left.

So we have an evolutionary argument, a practical argument (caring for her offspring), and a psychological argument.

It is a difficult moral problem. I am inclined to counsel no more offspring. (As she already has offspring.) But that would not be legally binding. In the end, I would leave the decision to the woman herself, to be made when she is on medication and rational. And when on medication, she decided to have the child. So there!

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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/28/2012 6:31:44 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

Where are the men who knocked up a certifiably insane woman? I mean, sure, you can claim it takes two to tango all you like, but that is when both parties are legally competent. Three times she has gotten pregnant. Those men should be ashamed of themselves...
I mean, what is the difference between sex with a woman who isn't sane and sex with a woman who is passed out drunk or otherwise unable to make a choice about sex?



None, and in most states, its a criminal offence... along the same lines as statutory rape.

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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/28/2012 6:48:39 PM   
SoftBonds


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From Wikipedia
quote:


Schizophrenia (/ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/) is a mental disorder characterized by a breakdown of thought processes and by poor emotional responsiveness.[1] It most commonly manifests itself as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking, and it is accompanied by significant social or occupational dysfunction. The onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood, with a global lifetime prevalence of about 0.3–0.7%.[2] Diagnosis is based on observed behavior and the patient's reported experiences.

Genetics, early environment, neurobiology, and psychological and social processes appear to be important contributory factors; some recreational and prescription drugs appear to cause or worsen symptoms. Current research is focused on the role of neurobiology, although no single isolated organic cause has been found. The many possible combinations of symptoms have triggered debate about whether the diagnosis represents a single disorder or a number of discrete syndromes. Despite the etymology of the term from the Greek roots skhizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-; "mind"), schizophrenia does not imply a "split mind" and it is not the same as dissociative identity disorder—also known as "multiple personality disorder" or "split personality"—a condition with which it is often confused in public perception.[3]

The mainstay of treatment is antipsychotic medication, which primarily suppresses dopamine (and sometimes serotonin) receptor activity. Psychotherapy and vocational and social rehabilitation are also important in treatment. In more serious cases—where there is risk to self and others—involuntary hospitalization may be necessary, although hospital stays are now shorter and less frequent than they once were.[4]

The disorder is thought mainly to affect cognition, but it also usually contributes to chronic problems with behavior and emotion. People with schizophrenia are likely to have additional (comorbid) conditions, including major depression and anxiety disorders; the lifetime occurrence of substance abuse is almost 50%.[5] Social problems, such as long-term unemployment, poverty and homelessness, are common. The average life expectancy of people with the disorder is 12 to 15 years less than those without, the result of increased physical health problems and a higher suicide rate (about 5%).[2]


There is a noticible genetic effect, though it can be rather latent as well. It can hit an aunt hard, and mildly affect the nephew, then affect the grand-niece again badly...
Even with medication, behavior may not be "normal," or well thought out.
Then again, many people with Schizophrenia who are taking medication and in therapy can be quite normal and sane. You might even know someone with the disorder and not know of it.

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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/28/2012 7:00:32 PM   
SternSkipper


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What gets my ass the most is that THIS COURT is the jurisdiction that decides my custody issues.
It's the worst little enclave of activist judges I have witnessed in my lifetime.
Ironically, though I haven't checked this one.... Most of the judges coming upwith controversial posts are Romney appointees... I'll have to look this one up

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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/28/2012 7:06:01 PM   
SternSkipper


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Bill Weld appointee... Billy wanted to be a republican President too. However, Bill's issue was staying conscious till the next republican primary... It was something Bill was unfortunately incapable of.
Though he was a real nice guy the day Jerry Garcia died, ordering the Mass State Police not to charge the mourners in Boston Common on horseback.


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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/29/2012 6:33:57 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Bill Weld appointee...


I read an article that had her as a Dukakis appointee, which was the basis of the article's anti Dem slant. If you have a source for her being a Weld appointee, I'll helpfully point that out to them. I took a quick look, but could not find either way.

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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/29/2012 7:00:55 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

My first question is: Why is she schizophrenic?

She's probably been circumcised. That would explain it...

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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/29/2012 7:11:07 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

quote:

Bill Weld appointee...

I read an article that had her as a Dukakis appointee, which was the basis of the article's anti Dem slant. If you have a source for her being a Weld appointee, I'll helpfully point that out to them. I took a quick look, but could not find either way.



It's possible ... I was going by one article's report of the length of her tenure which was 26 years. But I just read another that called it 1989. Which DOES Make her the Duke's appointee ... not much distinction there... Weld and he were just different aged versions of each other.
But you're right, thanks for pointing that out.


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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/29/2012 7:14:21 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I took a quick look, but could not find either way.


Have you noticed it's really difficult to find out any real specific facts about the case in general? If the woman was Lt Governor and flipped her car we'd be subjected to every excruciatingly boring detail.


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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/29/2012 7:17:40 AM   
kalikshama


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Ad nauseum.

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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/29/2012 7:18:33 AM   
Fightdirecto


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The judge was in a "lose-lose" situation. If she had not ruled as she did, and the schizophrenic woman had delivered the child and then neglected or abused the baby due to her schizophrenia, the judge would have been held responsibile in the Court of Public Opinion.

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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/29/2012 7:22:04 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

The judge was in a "lose-lose" situation. If she had not ruled as she did, and the schizophrenic woman had delivered the child and then neglected or abused the baby due to her schizophrenia, the judge would have been held responsibile in the Court of Public Opinion.


In a State serviced by a <haha> newspaper called The Boson Herald... I would have to agree.


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RE: Ex-judge in Mass. defends forced abortion [and ster... - 2/29/2012 9:02:05 AM   
kalikshama


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It's so nice to get all your references :)

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