Of subs and slaves

Of subs and slaves (Full Version)

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bdsmsub4dom -> Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 4:32:45 AM)
I recently put this in my journal, but thought it would be better to place it here to get other opinions. Although I am very submissive (more on that later), I am finding the sessions/weekends with Masters under 35 to be either extremely vanilla and I wind up teaching them -or- they are often dangerously ignorant of basic safe practices; sometimes both. It is for these reasons I find Masters near my age or older (pref over 45) much more exciting. With them, I know they will take me safely beyond my limits, exploring all new sensations and extremes. For example, I'm not a pain pig, in fact, I seriously try to avoid it and it is the most anticlimatic thing I know of, but when a skillful Master uses it as one of the tools to force my obedience and alter my mind into a true slave, non-human property, no games - then my trust and respect for him skyrockets. There have been times when a "Master" (usually sadist Dom) convinces me to be his slave, when their true intentions are merely a S&m session. It is usually the younger Doms that think that all slaves are pain subs. Being as it is my innate nature, it takes very little for someone to convince me to drive 3 or more hours each way to serve them, regardless what they look like. But I think a true submissive, slave or not, can tolerate anything once bound and gagged, especially if there is a known time limit. But, I have no respect for such deceptive Doms, although I will still take his punishments (once stripped and bound, where can I go?) and easily brought to the point of seriously screaming and writhing, and hating myself for being so gullible. I do as I am told, but I suppose what I hate the most is that I know I am much more if he knew how to train a slave, rather than having just another superficial S&m session. I can fully understand the intense high an S&m Dom can receive by coercing someone to be bound and then elicit real reactions and emotions, rather than having a pain-lovin' masochist play a role. There is a huge gray area in the middle where slave owners will use extreme S&m on a slave to advance a slave quicker or to a new mental level that could not be reached any other way, but I would suppose the difference is on the final product; a sub for reliable entertainment or a slave as loyal property. Perhaps I should be much more selective in seeking a Master, but I am not comfortable questioning someone so much. It gets to the point where I am in too much control. That is why I see these "slave" profiles that are so specific, and i know it is an obvious form of passive-agressiveness; the need for control under the guise of submissiveness. I can understand why many Masters will drop someone if there are more than 3 emails back and forth; it makes sense. I find it quite pathetic that a slave should have the attitude "Do me the way I like it and be quick about it!" For me, the need to trust and serve, regardless of my own superficial interests, far outweighs my need for control. Am I fucked up and reading too much into these relationships and sessions? I would like to read your thoughts on this.

lizi -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 4:52:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bdsmsub4dom <snip> Perhaps I should be much more selective in seeking a Master, but I am not comfortable questioning someone so much. It gets to the point where I am in too much control. That is why I see these "slave" profiles that are so specific, and i know it is an obvious form of passive-agressiveness; the need for control under the guise of submissiveness. I can understand why many Masters will drop someone if there are more than 3 emails back and forth; it makes sense. I find it quite pathetic that a slave should have the attitude "Do me the way I like it and be quick about it!" For me, the need to trust and serve, regardless of my own superficial interests, far outweighs my need for control. Am I fucked up and reading too much into these relationships and sessions? I would like to read your thoughts on this. Either you step up and guide your filtering process more thoroughly or you don't. It's impossible to know someone in the brief amount of time you're allocating yourself so you either continue to roll the dice and see what you end up with, or you steer things along in a more deliberate fashion. There isn't any magic way for you to get what you want without putting in the work for it, if you don't choose to work for it as it makes you uncomfortable there isn't any other result for you here than to keep getting the mixed bag that you're getting. For myself, I find it strange that you would not take the time and effort to fulfill yourself, are you a charity worker perchance? Why fulfill everyone else and go home empty handed? You are responsible for yourself, your experiences, your life...if you decide to leave it up to a crap shoot how can you honestly be disappointed with the results? We all do things we don't care for as part of life, if you want certain things out of your BDSM encounters you'll have to vet the process of choosing your partners more carefully - ther'es no shortcut to having people read your mind.

poise -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 5:35:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bdsmsub4dom There have been times when a "Master" (usually sadist Dom) convinces me to be his slave, when their true intentions are merely a S&m session. But, I have no respect for such deceptive Doms, although I will still take his punishments I do as I am told, but I suppose what I hate the most is that I know I am much more if he knew how to train a slave, rather than having just another superficial S&m session. I don't think it's fair of you to be calling those Doms deceptive, when in fact your very own profile invites these things that you are complaining about. I seek a dom (40-70yrs) that wants a BdSm sub as his personal toy to mercilessly explore limits all night. I often think about heavy cock/ball torture (CBT, slap, whip, bite, stretch, hot wax, electro, etc), and nipple torture, anus/ball stretching, etc., and relentlessly expanding all limits. If you are looking for a relationship as opposed to a few sessions, why on earth is everything in your profile geared towards sexual entertainment only?

Whenready -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 5:38:40 AM)
So....your profile suggests (to me, anyway) "I'm available! take me! take me!". Your journal infers 3 emails and you're in your car, off to a meet. You want safety, edge, and to be taken beyond your limits - but you're not terribly clear what those limits are (in the main). Your distinction between sub and slave seems to be fluid. If I was looking to have some male fuckmeat, to use and discard, the messages you are sending (to me anyway) are right up there. You're not stupid, but you appear to be doing stupid things. 3 emails and a play session does not a relationship make. Good luck!

Aileen1968 -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 5:38:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bdsmsub4dom Perhaps I should be much more selective in seeking a Master Yes. Perhaps you should.

kalikshama -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 5:40:47 AM)
quote: There have been times when a "Master" (usually sadist Dom) convinces me to be his slave, when their true intentions are merely a S&m session. quote: ...Perhaps I should be much more selective in seeking a Master, but I am not comfortable questioning someone so much. It gets to the point where I am in too much control. When I was looking, I retained control until someone had earned my trust, a process that takes time. You need to be much more clear that you are seeking a relationship, not sessions, which includes removing phrases like "take me now" from your profile.

DarkSteven -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 5:48:11 AM)
The terms Masters, subs, slaves, etc. are to me relationship terms. I see nothing in your profile indicating you are looking for anything but play partners. It sounds to me like after several months of bottoming to anyone who called himself a Master, you're getting the idea that not all gay Tops are the same. And your first defining criterion is age. Any way that you can, over the phone and in messages, find a better way of determining capability and experience than just age?

myotherself -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 6:07:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bdsmsub4dom <snip>... I find Masters near my age or older (pref over 45) much more exciting. With them, I know they will take me safely beyond my limits, exploring all new sensations and extremes. Seriously? I mean...seriously??? Age is no indication of maturity, and I know quite a few older males who are totally clueless about safe play. You need to refine your selection filter here. quote: For example, I'm not a pain pig, in fact, I seriously try to avoid it and it is the most anticlimatic thing I know of, but when a skillful Master uses it as one of the tools to force my obedience and alter my mind into a true slave, non-human property, no games - then my trust and respect for him skyrockets. The term you're looking for is 'masochist'. This term is just...unpleasant. And why do you need your obedience to be forced? Being 'forced' to be obedient DOES NOT make you a 'true slave' (whatever the feck THAT means). All it does is give you the hot, wet, fuzzies you're looking for. Not the same thing at all. quote: There have been times when a "Master" (usually sadist Dom) convinces me to be his slave, when their true intentions are merely a S&m session. It is usually the younger Doms that think that all slaves are pain subs. Being as it is my innate nature, it takes very little for someone to convince me to drive 3 or more hours each way to serve them, regardless what they look like. But I think a true submissive, slave or not, can tolerate anything once bound and gagged, especially if there is a known time limit. But, I have no respect for such deceptive Doms, although I will still take his punishments (once stripped and bound, where can I go?) and easily brought to the point of seriously screaming and writhing, and hating myself for being so gullible. I do as I am told, but I suppose what I hate the most is that I know I am much more if he knew how to train a slave, rather than having just another superficial S&m session. How does your gullibility make these guys deceptive? If this is a pattern that is being repeated (which you seem to imply), then the common factor is YOU, not them. You are making these choices - take ownership of the results. quote: I can fully understand the intense high an S&m Dom can receive by coercing someone to be bound and then elicit real reactions and emotions, rather than having a pain-lovin' masochist play a role. Clearly you don't understand the mindset of a masochist. Many of us (myself included) don't enjoy the pain. It's not like being wrapped in fluff and brought to orgasm with a vibe - it fuckin' HURTS. Just like it hurts you. The difference is (from my perspective) is that my pain threshold is high. I can take a lot more. And it makes me wet. But it still hurts. You don't get any more 'real' than that. quote: Perhaps I should be much more selective in seeking a Master, but I am not comfortable questioning someone so much. It gets to the point where I am in too much control. That is why I see these "slave" profiles that are so specific, and i know it is an obvious form of passive-agressiveness; the need for control under the guise of submissiveness. Total and utter bollocks. Being specific means you find the partner who best fulfills your needs. I am a masochist who loves control, but not micromanagement. So that's what I listed in my profile, and that's how I weeded out the unsuitables. And that's how I ended up with Master, a man I've been with for a year and a half of happiness and fulfillment. If you don't want to be more choosy and end up doing one-offs with guys looking for different things to you, then keep doing what you're doing. If you're going to actually find what you need rather than what is merely available, then you have to do something about it. It's not being 'passive-aggressive' or controlling, it's about being a grown-up. quote: I can understand why many Masters will drop someone if there are more than 3 emails back and forth; it makes sense. I find it quite pathetic that a slave should have the attitude "Do me the way I like it and be quick about it!" For me, the need to trust and serve, regardless of my own superficial interests, far outweighs my need for control. The ones who drop you after 3 back and forth emails are the ones who want instant gratification. They don't want to put in the effort to relate to someone on a human level. I messaged with Master for about 3 months before we eventually met. We talked online for hours every day, and I knew a huge amount about him before I even knew what he looked like. Then when we met, we still talked for two hours non-stop and had more to say. By chatting online even for a week or two before progressing to the phone, I know he's serious about putting effort into a relationship. This approach may not work for everyone, but it's what worked for me. I know him as a 3D person, with a life outside of bdsm. I know about his family, his work, his hopes, his dreams, his passions. He knows about mine. When we eventually moved from 'dating' to a D/s relationship, it felt so natural. After the play, we still had so much more to talk about. Then as time went on, we realised it was evolving into an M/s relationship and we were both extremely happy with that. I love to look after him - cooking meals, making coffee, watching his choice of tv or film, eating out where he wants. It makes me very happy. He loves to come visit me because he knows it'll be stress-free and fun, whether we're playing, fucking, watching tv, eating or discussing mutual interests. quote: Am I fucked up and reading too much into these relationships and sessions? I would like to read your thoughts on this. You're not having relationships, you're having sessions. You aren't getting as much out of the sessions as you want because you're not being selective enough. If you want sessions, then you need to let the dominant know what it is you're looking for. If they want different things, pass them by. If you want a relationship then you need to know that you have to be the grown-up. Be choosy, be selective, take your time and put some effort into your search.

kalikshama -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 6:56:07 AM)
quote: The ones who drop you after 3 back and forth emails are the ones who want instant gratification. They don't want to put in the effort to relate to someone on a human level. I messaged with Master for about 3 months before we eventually met. We talked online for hours every day, and I knew a huge amount about him before I even knew what he looked like. Then when we met, we still talked for two hours non-stop and had more to say. By chatting online even for a week or two before progressing to the phone, I know he's serious about putting effort into a relationship. This approach may not work for everyone, but it's what worked for me. I know him as a 3D person, with a life outside of bdsm. I know about his family, his work, his hopes, his dreams, his passions. He knows about mine. When we eventually moved from 'dating' to a D/s relationship, it felt so natural. After the play, we still had so much more to talk about. Then as time went on, we realised it was evolving into an M/s relationship and we were both extremely happy with that. I love to look after him - cooking meals, making coffee, watching his choice of tv or film, eating out where he wants. It makes me very happy. He loves to come visit me because he knows it'll be stress-free and fun, whether we're playing, fucking, watching tv, eating or discussing mutual interests. I knew M was the one for me when he didn't try to Dom me before we met IRL, when he was understanding when I had to cancel our first date due to work, when we had our dinner date I was enjoy the convo so much I didn't want it to end, when I met and liked his roommates - I related to him on a vanilla level.

DesFIP -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 8:22:24 AM)
You are the one choosing to drive long distances to play with a stranger. You are the one agreeing to just bottom. You are the one not asking them questions ahead of time to see how much knowledge they have. You are the one not asking them about how sadistic they are. You are the one putting yourself in risky situations. Seems to me, you're getting exactly what you are agreeing to. If this isn't what you want, then change what you're doing.

FlGirlSeeksOwner -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 1:45:02 PM)
Wow, i have to say OP it sounds like you are not being very safe at all. Why would you allow someone to tie you up and beat you, if you have no trust in them? Greanted i am submissive, but that does NOT mean i am submissive to everyone. i ask questions, answer their questions and get to know them in message and phone before considering a meeting. i have met several nice Doms locally from CM. But each one i had talked to on the phone and i understood what they were interested in and i knew what i was willing to do. Dig a little deeper into who they are and what they want. And if they do not ask about you.. you get what you ask for.

myotherself -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 1:48:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama I knew M was the one for me when he didn't try to Dom me before we met IRL, when he was understanding when I had to cancel our first date due to work, when we had our dinner date I was enjoy the convo so much I didn't want it to end, when I met and liked his roommates - I related to him on a vanilla level. Exactly! We dated for a couple of months before D/s became part of what we did. By that time we realised we were attracted to each other, compatible with each other and totally enjoyed being with each other. When the D/s and the play was added, it took us to a new level completely, but with a very firm foundation.

angelikaJ -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 2:00:56 PM)
I agree with the comment that you aren't playing safe. You also aren't playing smart. Being a submissive woman doesn't mean you check your brain at the door. You shouldn't be worrying if you are submissive enough in the beginning stages of getting to know someone. You are getting to know him; he is getting to know you. You are learning if this is someone you can relate to (rather important if you are seeking a relationship) and as important, if this is someone you can trust. I am in a relationship; I am an owned slave. I am not a masochist and He is not a sadist. Pain is a condiment; it is not a main course. I love being spanked but that doesn't mean He beats me. I still have a safe word; He insists on it and trusts that I will use it if necessary. Find someone that you are compatible with. Take your time in doing that. Have you checked out to see if there are munches in your community; that is a way of getting a feel of people and seeing that there are submissive people with all kinds of different traits may make you feel more comfortable with the level you are at. edit wording

JeffBC -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/4/2012 3:12:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bdsmsub4dom I find it quite pathetic that a slave should have the attitude "Do me the way I like it and be quick about it!" For me, the need to trust and serve, regardless of my own superficial interests, far outweighs my need for control. My thoughts are that your thoughts are probably relevant to someone who thinks of "sub" and "slave" in terms of play sessions. That's not exactly how I think of it. It's not how Carol thinks of it. So our reasoning is going to be very, very different. The things you're talking about sound like "top" and "bottom" to me. In the longer-term sense... one wherein becoming someone's slave is literally the act of giving yourself to that person... you don't think there's some wisdom in finding out A LOT about the person in question before giving a human life to them? I find that.... well... "quite pathetic"?

Madame4a -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/5/2012 5:30:31 AM)
"Perhaps I should be much more selective in seeking a Master," answered your own question... a relationship is a relationship... you need to get to know someone and makesure that they earn your trust, and you earn theirs before making yourself vulnerable... if you want a bunchof kinky encounters.. than do that.. but don't act like that a bemoan the lack of meaningful relationships and other things that come with time, long term relationships and trust building. get to know people before rushing in

Madame4a -> RE: Of subs and slaves (3/5/2012 5:34:25 AM)
FYI.. the term pain pig is very common and not at all derogatory in the gay and dyke communities... and to the OP and others... the experience described here is avery typical in the gay men's community in several circles... folks thatI know anyway...

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