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Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 12:40:48 PM

Englishcrumpet

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its all down to personal perspective i know, but do you think that equality and Ds are polarised.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 12:48:11 PM

LadyHibiscus

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No.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 12:53:32 PM

DarkSteven

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I'm not understanding the question.

Do you consider D/s and equality to be two separate concepts, and each one polarized? If so, what is the characteristic which polarizes them?

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 12:55:06 PM

Focus50

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Individual D & s power is equal (that which makes you desirable to the other).

But the relationship only works when control is biased (or unequal) toward the dominant half.

Focus.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 12:58:45 PM

lizi

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No. Hell no. It's really up to you what you get out of it and the combination of how you go about things with the person or people you are with. My relationship works on the principal that we consider ourselves to be both on equal ground, bringing equal amounts of effort into things, and giving of ourselves equally. I wouldn't be interested in it if it wasn't this way, wouldn't work for me. Seems that my partner feels the same way.

We'd be bored being catered to, and also bored having to be the constant giver. We both are givers, we have to fight it out sometimes to see who gets to give at any certain time, we kind of take turns. He ends up giving more because he wants it that way, and I accept because of our relationship structure, but I get my licks in too. I dont know, I see imbalances as inviting trouble, but the imbalance has to be a true one...sometimes what looks like an imbalance is in fact what people want, it can be deceiving. If your needs are being met it doesn't matter how a thing looks on the outside.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 1:03:00 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

No. Hell no. It's really up to you what you get out of it and the combination of how you go about things with the person or people you are with. My relationship works on the principal that we consider ourselves to be both on equal ground, bringing equal amounts of effort into things, and giving of ourselves equally. I wouldn't be interested in it if it wasn't this way, wouldn't work for me. Seems that my partner feels the same way.

Ya, M and I contribute differently, but from a place of equality.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 1:04:01 PM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Individual D & s power is equal (that which makes you desirable to the other).

But the relationship only works when control is biased (or unequal) toward the dominant half.

Focus.

This.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 1:34:33 PM

FlGirlSeeksOwner

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Why would you want to be in a D/s relationship if you were equals? Sounds vanilla to me.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 1:46:39 PM

littlewonder

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I don't see us as equals but I don't feel I am lesser either.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 2:05:48 PM

crazyml

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The short answer is - "Nope".

The longer one is, it depends on which "thing" we're balancing.

If it's "authority" then, clearly in many D/s relationships there'd be an imbalance. One person has more authority than the other.

If it's "worth" then I'd say that for me (without speaking for or judging anyone else) then I would not be interested in any kind of relationship within which one partner's "worth" was less than the other's.

For me, both partners have an equal right to fulfilment from the relationship.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 2:08:30 PM

Englishcrumpet

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i agree with everyone in that the power given has to be equal. both have to be proactive for it to work, but im not sure that equality between a D and an s isnt more vanilla than Ds.

if a D knows what he wants but deffers to his sub on what, when and how then how is that her submitting to what he wants if she has the power to vote on what goes down at all times.

ill admit im struggling. hence this question. i come from a more Ms past and im finding Ds hard to get to grips with.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 2:12:49 PM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Englishcrumpet

i agree with everyone in that the power given has to be equal. both have to be proactive for it to work, but im not sure that equality between a D and an s isnt more vanilla than Ds.

if a D knows what he wants but deffers to his sub on what, when and how then how is that her submitting to what he wants if she has the power to vote on what goes down at all times.

ill admit im struggling. hence this question. i come from a more Ms past and im finding Ds hard to get to grips with.

Sure... kind of by definition D/s implies an inequality of "power", but it needn't imply an inequality of "worth".

So he/she doesn't have the power to vote on what goes down at all times - But he/she is entitled to be as fulfilled by the relationship as the dominant partner is.

Does that make any sense?

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 3:09:36 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Englishcrumpet
its all down to personal perspective i know, but do you think that equality and Ds are polarised.

I think that "equality" is a very generalized word which has no real meaning. Are Carol and I "equal" as human beings? Yes. Is both of our happiness equally important to the marriage? Yes. Do I make the decisions in this marriage? Yes?

In some ways we are "equal" and in other ways... not so much. Perhaps I'd say that we are equal but not the same.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 6:05:34 PM

DesFIP

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Not any more than being a nurse and a surgeon are. In fact I would say the opposite. They are intertwined. We are equal in value to the success of the relationship. Just not in authority.

Could a surgeon successfully operate without all of the support people; anesthesiologist, OR nurses, etc? Of course not.
Without a sub, a dominant would be pretty damn foolish ordering the thin air to fetch another glass of water.

Equal in value and equal in authority are quite different. But it still doesn't change the fact that you need both.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/4/2012 6:20:17 PM

LoreBook

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Of course not. The distribution of power, authority and control are unequal, but the individuals are equal. A Dom is not inherently superior or better than a sub or a slave, just more empowered within the relationship.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/5/2012 4:10:36 AM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I don't see us as equals but I don't feel I am lesser either.

Is she an equal as a human-of course. Hell, I'd argue, and be accurate in doing so, that she's a(much) better human being than I.
I won't even tell you that she isn't an equal in the relationship, because it takes two to tango and I don't deal with people who aren't willing to put as much in as I am.

Buuuuut, in the relationship, the power levels are uneven.
And even then, that's not entirely accurate. It would be more clear to say that her needs come second..which really has nothing to do with equality.

Or as MadRabbit (I think, though maybe it was Stephan) used to say to his slaves, "It's not that we aren't equal, its that you are less important"

< Message edited by Kana -- 3/5/2012 4:27:10 AM >

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/5/2012 4:48:30 AM

RaspberryLemon

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No, equality and domination/submission are not mutually exclusive.

My Master and I are equal in value, but unequal in authority. He holds all of the authority, but that doesn't make me "inferior" to him as a person. We are both vital and essential parts of our relationship, and we are both human beings of equal value. We contribute different things to each other and the relationship, but both roles are necessary and of equal importance--they complement each other. I quite liked DesFIP's example of surgeon/nurse, it speaks well for this concept.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/5/2012 6:24:23 AM

MrsT301

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This is confusing to me as well. If you are equals then one person is therefore not in charge so where's the power exchange?
Our play is usually to fulfill HIS fantasies so he decides what we do when we play. But I'm not totally without power because I can always use my safeword.

Where it gets confusing to me is when sometimes I am the one with the ideas of what I would like to try, and then we try it (but it was my idea) so I guess in that scenario he's a top but not really a Dominant in the full sense of the word.

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/5/2012 7:02:34 AM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsT301
This is confusing to me as well. If you are equals then one person is therefore not in charge so where's the power exchange?

Think of it like work.
You are equal to your boss as a human being, recognized as equal under the law, yet the have dominion over you.
Now, that's only the dominion that's granted them...you can always quit and hit the door...but then again, ain't the same true of any slave/sub/bottom/SAM?
Otherwise, if you wanna stay, you gotta play by their rules, which includes any consequences they may mete out for non-adherence to company guidelines.
So yeah, equal, yet subservient.

Course D/S is full of paradoxes anyhow, so what's one more :-)

< Message edited by Kana -- 3/5/2012 7:50:02 AM >

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RE: Equality in Ds - 3/5/2012 10:54:54 AM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsT301
Where it gets confusing to me is when sometimes I am the one with the ideas of what I would like to try, and then we try it (but it was my idea) so I guess in that scenario he's a top but not really a Dominant in the full sense of the word.

Not at all. He isn't obligated to do what you want. He can think it's a damned good idea or think that he would like to see you happy, and do it. Or he can decide it bores him silly and say no.

Good bosses don't refuse ideas just because someone else suggested them. Companies hire advertising agencies but it doesn't mean the ad agency can order the company to do what they say. They can just suggest what their best ideas are and see if the company chooses to go with it or not.

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