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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/9/2012 6:18:12 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Sounds right up my alley!

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/9/2012 6:25:21 PM   
Baroana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SingleServant

My statements regarding a male's absolute frame of reference for happiness and a female's relative frame of reference for happiness is an assessment from a macro perspective, not a micro perspective. There are of course exceptions to every rule when dealing with the behavior of human beings. I congratulate you for being a battle-axe who has an absolute frame of reference for your sense of happiness. However you are not the rule, you are the exception to the rule.

I shall address your question regarding what I bring to a relationship. The answer to your question is nothing. The women in my life stay in my proximity because they believe eventually I will fall "in love" with them,
when in fact I could never love any of them more than my money.



Standard response by bullshitters being called on their bullshit. Any evidence or example that tends to disprove their claim is dismissed as a "rare exception." That way, you can't argue with them.

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/9/2012 6:27:40 PM   
Baroana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

A woman's sense of happiness is based upon a relative scale. She determines her sense of happiness by how well, or not well, she is doing relative to her girlfriends. Her happiness is not based upon an absolute scale; it is based upon a constantly moving target.

For example if a woman is living in a comfortable suburban setting but her girl friends are living in slightly larger homes, and taking slighty better vacations, or they are receiving slightly more expensive Christmas gifts she will feel "unhappy". However if this exact same woman is living in a small row home in a not so good neighborhood but her girl friends are living in run down apartments she will feel " happy". She will have the material evidence to show she is doing better than her girl friends which makes her secretly feel good.

The woman living in the nice suburban home, who is unhappy, will pressure her husband to provide to her increased material goods move her up past her girl friends ,and making her feel " happy" again.


My goodness, who have you been hanging out with? I've never had friends like this.


It's called misogyny.

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/9/2012 6:27:42 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Why argue with socks anyway? Suck out the available lulz and move on.

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/9/2012 6:45:05 PM   
searching4mysir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SingleServant

The women in my life stay in my proximity because they believe eventually I will fall "in love" with them, when in fact I could never love any of them more than my money.



That is such a sad statement on so many levels. I feel sorry for you, I truly do.

I would rather be poverty-stricken but have real love than 6.5 million and be as cold and ugly as that statement implies you are.

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/9/2012 7:01:37 PM   
SingleServant


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De Beers.

Many years ago the men who owned the De Beers Company, the engagement ring manufacturer, recognized women's relative baseline for happiness.

An engagement ring - easily visible, impossible to hide. It shines and sparkles. It can only be purchased once ( i. e. he better go all out to get it right the first time). If her ring is bigger than her girlfriends ring she will feel better about herself, if it is smaller she will feel sad and inferior.

Male incentive: I must purchase the largest engagement ring as possible, because if I don't, she will feel sad and inferior to her girlfriends who have larger engagement rings.......this will lead to her reducing or eliminating the sex I get which is one of my absolutes for happiness.

De Beers........a man "should" spend at least 20% of his yearly income on an engagement ring. Forget about putting that money down on a home, buy the ring instead.

Fact: Diamonds which are used in engagement rings are not rare. If a manufactured demand for them was not conjured up by these financial geniuses at De Beers they would sell on the open market today for 10% of the cost paid currently.

The above is not misogyny, it is a description of how men and women interact in today's world and it describes an overall methodology on how to profit financially from that behavior.







Lesson: There are numerous examples in financial history of how vast sums of money can be made from understanding a woman's relative baseline for
happness.





< Message edited by SingleServant -- 3/9/2012 7:11:48 PM >

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/9/2012 7:17:03 PM   
Baroana


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The buyers of diamond engagement rings are typically men. Therefore, the ads target men and their compulsion to acquire symbols of wealth, prowess and virility (e.g. diamonds, sports cars, trophy wives...)

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/9/2012 8:07:09 PM   
Kaliko


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Okay. I'll play.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SingleServant

Against my better judgement I shall expand on how my ability to make millions is associated with the money grubbers, battle axes, and the domesticated males who populate not only this site but the entire country.

A typical male's sense of happiness is based upon an absolute scale. If he has an attractive woman in his life, if he is coming home to a clean home and a well cooked meal, if he is employed and has some disposable income, if he is having his sexual needs satisfied he will be happy. Regardless of his surroundings and position in life a male will be happy if he has these things.

A woman's sense of happiness is based upon a relative scale. She determines her sense of happiness by how well, or not well, she is doing relative to her girlfriends. Her happiness is not based upon an absolute scale; it is based upon a constantly moving target.



I don't entirely disagree with you. I think we (as in, everybody, everywhere) will often turn a blind eye to how what we are taught to believe is important affects us. We are not conscious of this. For me to say "Oh, I never worry about what my friends think" is true, because I don't worry about it. Does that mean I don't feel envious at times? Of course I do. I'm human. And do those types of feelings affect my choices in some ways? Likely.

I think where I disagree more strongly with you is basing it all upon financial matters. Let's say I were to agree that my self-esteem is relative to how I am doing compared to my peers. (I won't say friends, because I think it goes beyond those we are friends with.) Maybe more important to me is that I'm thinner, or have nicer skin, or better hair (and by the way, I do ;), or that I have a better career, or am more prominent in the community, or that I am more religious, or do more volunteer work. A nice, or not nice, house is such a small, small part of what we may be relatively judging ourselves for. There are just so many more categories for us to fuck ourselves up in. :)

quote:



For example if a woman is living in a comfortable suburban setting but her girl friends are living in slightly larger homes, and taking slighty better vacations, or they are receiving slightly more expensive Christmas gifts she
will feel "unhappy". However if this exact same woman is living in a small row home in a not so good neighborhood but her girl friends are living in run down apartments she will feel " happy". She will have the material evidence to show she is doing better than her girl friends which makes her secretly feel good.

The woman living in the nice suburban home, who is unhappy, will pressure her husband to provide to her increased material goods move her up past her girl friends ,and making her feel " happy" again.



Again, I do believe that this has much more to do with than pure money. Women are taught certain things growing up, just like men are. A nice house, a nice car, a husband with a three-piece suit...while these may not be our individual cups of tea, these images bring to mind security...comfort...stability. Never mind what's going on behind the giant double doors of that magnificent home....looking at it evokes certain feelings.

My ex-husband told me, during our divorce, that one of the things he did treasure most about me was that I never blinked an eye at not having as much as our neighbors. But that's not true. I blinked - a LOT. But not about money. About other things that seemed to exist within the comfortable, stable homes of our neighbors. I propose that, unless a woman is a complete and utter cunt, if she is pressuring her partner into something that costs a lot of money, it is more for what it represents to her based on what she sees among her peers, not the desire to be better than her peers.

quote:



Before the advent of mass media and the Internet the above dynamics where almost always localized.

With mass media all women are viewing other women living in a better situation then they are. This triggered legions of pussy whipped husbands being pressured into making purchases they could not afford in a futile effort to made perpetually unhappy women happy. This phenomenon manifested itself into married couples purchase homes they simply could not afford. She needed the bigger home because her girlfriends had bigger homes and he (the husband) felt compelled to purchase that larger home because she ( the wife) was not happy, and unhappy women do not offer sex, and sex is a main ingredient in his "absolutes" for happiness.



True, of course, that now we are able to view "better" ways of living on a much broader scale. But you're limiting the definition of "better" to "more expensive." Frankly, I can pick up any issue of Mother Earth News and be infinitely more jealous than any Better Homes and Garden issue.

quote:



I recognized that eventually the entire system had to collase under it's own weight. Millions of money grubbers and battle axes pressuring their husbands to purchase homes they could not afford in a futile effort to be " happy" by getting one up on their girlfriends.

When the system collapsed I cashed in.



I don't really know what that means. (I also didn't read the entire thread.) So...no comment. :)



ETA - evoke versus invoke. Grrr.

< Message edited by Kaliko -- 3/9/2012 8:40:17 PM >

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/9/2012 8:11:08 PM   
Kaliko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: SingleServant

The women in my life stay in my proximity because they believe eventually I will fall "in love" with them, when in fact I could never love any of them more than my money.



That is such a sad statement on so many levels. I feel sorry for you, I truly do.

I would rather be poverty-stricken but have real love than 6.5 million and be as cold and ugly as that statement implies you are.



I don't think that's such a sad statement. I would prefer love myself, as well. But...points to him that he is honest enough with himself that he knows what his preference is. It is also his life and he has the right to determine his priorities. And, perhaps he just hasn't met the right woman yet. (The romantic in me is banking on that one. HA! Get it? "Banking?" LOL)

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/9/2012 11:30:37 PM   
Ishtarr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SingleServant

De Beers.

Many years ago the men who owned the De Beers Company, the engagement ring manufacturer, recognized women's relative baseline for happiness.

An engagement ring - easily visible, impossible to hide. It shines and sparkles. It can only be purchased once ( i. e. he better go all out to get it right the first time). If her ring is bigger than her girlfriends ring she will feel better about herself, if it is smaller she will feel sad and inferior.

Male incentive: I must purchase the largest engagement ring as possible, because if I don't, she will feel sad and inferior to her girlfriends who have larger engagement rings.......this will lead to her reducing or eliminating the sex I get which is one of my absolutes for happiness.

De Beers........a man "should" spend at least 20% of his yearly income on an engagement ring. Forget about putting that money down on a home, buy the ring instead.

Fact: Diamonds which are used in engagement rings are not rare. If a manufactured demand for them was not conjured up by these financial geniuses at De Beers they would sell on the open market today for 10% of the cost paid currently.

The above is not misogyny, it is a description of how men and women interact in today's world and it describes an overall methodology on how to profit financially from that behavior.







Lesson: There are numerous examples in financial history of how vast sums of money can be made from understanding a woman's relative baseline for
happness.






While that may apply to some, or even most women, it doesn't apply to all women, which is why all your statements to the contrary are being picked apart.

I specifically told my then fiancee I would not accept a large engagement ring, nor a large wedding ring.
I wore a zirconium engagement ring costing under a $100 and the wedding ring costs only a little over a $1000, which is under 1% percent of his income instead of 20%.

I specifically requested this, and told him at the time we discussed rings, BECAUSE I wanted to spend the money usually spend on rings on a downpayment on a house instead.

If your theory applied to all women, my girlfriends would either have to have smaller rings (which they don't) or I'd have to be miserable (which I'm not) or be withholding sex (which considering the fact that we clock in far above national averages on weekly sex, I such as heck am not).

Frankly, even if I didn't want a downpayment on a house, and preferred a bigger ring instead, there is NO WAY IN HELL I'd be okay with him buying a ring worth 20% of his income. I wouldn't be comfortable at all having a ring that expensive on my finger, and I'd see it as a gigantic waste of money.
Hell, my total jewelry collection will never come close to being 20% of his income.

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/10/2012 2:00:41 AM   
MistressDarkArt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr



I specifically told my then fiancee I would not accept a large engagement ring, nor a large wedding ring.
I wore a zirconium engagement ring costing under a $100 and the wedding ring costs only a little over a $1000, which is under 1% percent of his income instead of 20%.

I specifically requested this, and told him at the time we discussed rings, BECAUSE I wanted to spend the money usually spend on rings on a downpayment on a house instead.



OK, now we're all in the same discussion ballpark because I happen to be a gemologist and diamonds have been my specialty for 30 years. I do not find them so fascinating because they are expensive; I'm mesmerized by their outstanding physical, optical and chemical properties. When I pick up a diamond and look inside it, I'm not thinking: wow, this thing is worth $40k which is approximately $20k more than my girlfriend's so therefore it's nifty. I'm thinking, "check out that 3-phase inclusion with the garnet crystal inside...that is absolutely bitchin'! When I tip the tweezers it moves like a carpenter's level! Nature's amazing!"

I am equally fond of cubic zirconia, which actually has higher dispersion (flashes of color) than diamonds. 80% of my jewelry is CZ, and I get the same amount of kick putting that on my finger as I did my diamond engagement ring. More, actually, because CZ in large sizes is affordable and just as pleasing to me, so I have tons of it and don't have to give much thought to a lost earring or accidently slamming my ring finger in a drawer.

Maybe you know women who are superficial enough to get off on the whoop whoop high dollar appraisal I can provide for their engagement ring, SingleServ, but I don't. The married/partnered women I know either wear no ring at all, a plain band, some have CZs or other simulants, and some have chosen colored stones either synthetic/simulated or not. NONE of them are worth 20% of their mate's salaries. The women insisted it be that way, as Ishtarr above did.

After making my living from the diamond biz for more than 30 years, I can safely say the only folks falling for DeBeers' (which makes OPEC look like a girl scout cookie drive) marketing strategy, are men.

Single, what the heck's the issue with you that you're attracting such superficial, insecure women? I honestly don't know any women like you describe. You can call me a battle-axe all you want, but I was the same way 30 years ago and at 23, would have fit right into your young, 'mature' ideal.

So seriously, dude, if you keep having such bad luck consider changing your own paradigm. There's something you're doing that continues to attract what you don't like. It's broken. You're lonely. Fix it.

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/10/2012 5:09:06 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt

After making my living from the diamond biz for more than 30 years, I can safely say the only folks falling for DeBeers' (which makes OPEC look like a girl scout cookie drive) marketing strategy, are men.


That could be true. It chimes with something I read yonks ago by a feminist author: drawing from the always jewel-bedecked models in 'top-end' porn magazines, she argued that the idea of 'woman as valuable property' goes hand-in-hand with such trimmings. You cover your trophy girlfriend with sparklies to show others just how 'expensive' she must have been.

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/10/2012 5:54:58 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

The buyers of diamond engagement rings are typically men. Therefore, the ads target men and their compulsion to acquire symbols of wealth, prowess and virility (e.g. diamonds, sports cars, trophy wives...)


quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: SingleServant

The women in my life stay in my proximity because they believe eventually I will fall "in love" with them, when in fact I could never love any of them more than my money.



That is such a sad statement on so many levels. I feel sorry for you, I truly do.

I would rather be poverty-stricken but have real love than 6.5 million and be as cold and ugly as that statement implies you are.






< Message edited by kalikshama -- 3/10/2012 5:57:18 AM >

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/10/2012 6:06:26 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

The women in my life stay in my proximity because they believe eventually I will fall "in love" with them,
when in fact I could never love any of them more than my money.


I truly feel sorry for you.

Despite all the wealth you claim you will eventually discover that loneliness is the greatest poverty.

You are a very poor man indeed.

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/10/2012 6:13:30 AM   
Baroana


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Hang on, now I'm lost. DarkArt's a gemologist, Hib's an accountant, I'm an attorney. WTF? I thought 99% of us here were supposed to be welfare octomoms. Which ones are those again?

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/10/2012 6:17:09 AM   
Kaliko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

The women in my life stay in my proximity because they believe eventually I will fall "in love" with them,
when in fact I could never love any of them more than my money.




General response...

Seems this sentiment is not sitting right with some people.

You know how I initially read this? I read this as a judgment about the women, not him. I thought he was saying that he feels that the women in his life are simply not women that he could love. And I can understand that. I have a hard time finding fault with this. If he is well aware of what his priorities are then who am I to say whether his choices are correct? His is an unpopular view, yes. But I would like to keep my perspective broad enough to include the possibility that someone else's choice, though it may not be a valid option for me, may be the best choice for him.

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/10/2012 6:21:54 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

Hang on, now I'm lost. DarkArt's a gemologist, Hib's an accountant, I'm an attorney. WTF? I thought 99% of us here were supposed to be welfare octomoms. Which ones are those again?


Um. Well, I think Forni has the most kids. But she's not on welfare, so, I think we all pretty much fail.

And MDA: MOISSANITE! Love it. (just a wannabe gemologist, but lover of minerals and jewels)

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/10/2012 6:27:00 AM   
Baroana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

Hang on, now I'm lost. DarkArt's a gemologist, Hib's an accountant, I'm an attorney. WTF? I thought 99% of us here were supposed to be welfare octomoms. Which ones are those again?


Um. Well, I think Forni has the most kids. But she's not on welfare, so, I think we all pretty much fail.

And MDA: MOISSANITE! Love it. (just a wannabe gemologist, but lover of minerals and jewels)


I definitely fail. I have no kids.

I'm a gem amateur. I do think they are lovely to look at, but I would never spend the price of a car on a tiny rock (no disrespect intended, MDA). I like CZ a lot. I also like sapphires, rubies, and emeralds. I think that the created ones look nicer than the mined ones (at least the halfway affordable mined ones).

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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/10/2012 6:35:15 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

You know how I initially read this? I read this as a judgment about the women, not him. I thought he was saying that he feels that the women in his life are simply not women that he could love. And I can understand that. I have a hard time finding fault with this. If he is well aware of what his priorities are then who am I to say whether his choices are correct? His is an unpopular view, yes. But I would like to keep my perspective broad enough to include the possibility that someone else's choice, though it may not be a valid option for me, may be the best choice for him.


When one views women like this, this is all one finds:


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RE: Why am I not taken seriously? - 3/10/2012 6:41:16 AM   
Baroana


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LOL!

Exactly, kalikshama.

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