RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (Full Version)

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Rochsub2009 -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 7:59:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
I believe a recent study however, suggested that of all "alternative" dynamics, cuck couples, including hotwives, reported the highest levels of satisfaction with their relationships, with little disparity between the partners.


That's very interesting. Do you have any resources that you can recommend? I'd like to learn more about these findings. Any articles or other sources of info would be greatly appreciated.




xssve -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 8:52:54 AM)

I can't remember, it was in the last year or so, Australia maybe, I'll google.




xssve -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 8:57:56 AM)

Try this in the meantime:

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/buss-passion.html




xssve -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 9:03:36 AM)

Here's another:

http://www.hotwifelife.com/articles/not-without-my-wife/




LadyPact -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 9:14:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Here's another:

http://www.hotwifelife.com/articles/not-without-my-wife/

This link had four pages of text.  The words prostitution and polyandry were not included in any of the pages.  The other link I could not access, as it only took Me to a log in screen for the New York Times.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 9:41:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
How many times the woman goes 'out' can depend on how well the dynamic supports it.  That could be three times a week or three times a year depending on how often it's working out and still keeping the emotional bonds of the cuck dynamic strong.  I find what works best is to go on a 'date' often enough to keep the excitement going, but not so often that the emotional sadism doesn't lose it's sting. 



Exactly! I'm not sure I understand Lady Hibiscus' concerns about longevity. How do you maintain any BDSM activity for the longterm? It takes work and skillful planning.

What I've found is that most of the best BDSM experiences I've had were good because of the mental aspect, and not because of the actual physical act. So cuckolding is not effective because the cuckoldress has a constant stream of lovers. It's effective because she has the freedom to do it, and the cuck has no control over if or when she will exercise her freedom. She might go 5 years without a single date, and then see a cute guy at a bar and decide to exercise her sexual freedom.Perhaps LadyHibiscus could help us understand better why she doesn't think it is a sustainable dynamic, and then we can address her concern more accurately. But I don't see cuckolding as being any less sustainable than any other kink in the BDSM spectrum (assuming that distrust on the part of the primary partner doesn't enter into the picture).



Just a little bolding, and a fast post before getting back to work.

I am surrounded by long term M/s, D/s and BDSM relationships. For the sake of argument, let's call "long term" more than three years. I've watched those kinds of relationships flourish and evolve because...well, because they're not based on sex. Now, before you start the sex police commentary, I do NOT mean that the persons involved are not fucking like wolverines. They absolutely are highly sexual couples or households. Sexuality ENHANCES and deepens their bond, it's not the core and total of it.

Cucking is a kink that is entirely sexual, and if may use the term, phallocentric. It's all about the peen, one's not "good enough", the other's shinier or curves the right way. The potential for entertainment is there, I am not going to say it's not. It's also a grenade with a loose pin for reasons already discussed. If it's something the man wants---and let's be honest, this IS a male oriented kink--then it needs to be hinted at, massaged, threatened all the time. Otherwise, well, isn't it Lady Pact who said an expectation is a resentment waiting to happen?

The other aspect is just a Real Life thing. I'm not young. I am loving being not-young, but my sexual interests are not the same as they used to be. I gave up sportfucking when I turned 45. It was fun, but really, it was harming me emotionally. I still think about casual hookups, but I am not doing that kind of thing anymore. So what happens when the lady decides the same thing? What if she is actually HAPPY with the man she wakes up with, is busy with her work, dealing with her kids, taking her parents to their doctor appointments, ALL THE THINGS REAL WOMEN DO, and just doesn't have the time or interest to go cruising for strange?

JJ and I had a long conversation about this...I told you I did some research. Speaking hypothetically, say I was a free person and swanned off to Seattle. He is tired and smiling stupidly, I am planning the capybara play area. How long before I have to go looking? Six months? A year? WHAT IF I NEVER EXCERCISE THE OPTION? Have I failed as a cuckoldress? Evidently. Oh, but I don't have to actually fuck anyone, I just have to make it *seem as if I have, or might have*. In other words, lie. Because that's what a mindfuck is, a lie.

No, I don't believe it's a feasible long term kink. If someone can come here and give me evidence that they managed to do this sort of thing long term, spiffy, come and share! I suspect that most stories are going to be like the man who was given the all or nothing ultimatum.

(eeh, this took forever between interruptions!)




xssve -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 10:35:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Here's another:

http://www.hotwifelife.com/articles/not-without-my-wife/

This link had four pages of text.  The words prostitution and polyandry were not included in any of the pages.  The other link I could not access, as it only took Me to a log in screen for the New York Times.


If a breeding unit consists of one man and more than one woman, it's polygyny, if it's one woman and more than one man, it's polyandry. It's usually defined in terms of marriage in the abstract, but in praxis it's often much less formal.

Also see why handsome men make worse husbands, they get around a lot more and tend to be less attentive to their primary mate, they're more likely to be "bulls", and less likely to confine themselves to an exclusively monogamous relationship, so a typical polyandric breeding group, i.e., the most statistically likely, would include a group consisting of a female, a monogamous cuck, and a non monogamous bull.

Again, that would be the most statistically likely, a monogamous Bull is not out of the question, just statistically unlikely.

Prostitution is complex, socially, the Pimp is simultaneously a cuck and a polygynist (one man, many women), while the prostitute is a polyandrist (one women, many men), though this is not a widely accepted social definition, it's just a handle describes the breeding strategy, and if sex is involved, it's a breeding strategy.

It originally occurred to me when I was frequently being confronted with the perception that polygyny is "natural" and "normal", while polyandry is some sort of feminist weirdness - if you count prostitutes, polyandry is far more common and widespread than polygyny ever was - which again, makes perfect sense from an evolutionary standpoint, the woman is getting to pick and choose the fathers, while obtaining resources from multiple men - again, not that it works that way in terms of our common modern understanding of prostitution, but it does describe a possible social order of Gynocentric cultures, where women lived and raised children communally in a temple, priestesses, entertaining male suitors of their choice, who were required to make offerings (resources). e.g., the Bible makes a strong distinction between kedeshah or Qedasha, a temple prostitute, and zonah, a secular prostitute - the former were persecuted, the latter were not - i.e., "modern" prostitution may be a somewhat distorted version of Temple prostitution, which had religious underpinnings.

If we were talking about the average primate, no arrangement/definition would really apply, they're just plain "poly" - although pair bonding occurs, and there are exceptions within the order, the family Hominidae is not considered a pair bonding family.

For the record, I would disagree that this means monogamy in general is "unnatural" - humans display substantial adaptations that other members of the family Hominidae do not, there is no reason to suspect that monogamy is not one of these, it's simply not universal (see erotic plasticity). Humans are generalists, and display a wider wide range of behaviors than any other species, and for all intents and purposes, it would seem that both monogamy and poly are equally "natural", and of the subgroups, polyandry is as natural as polygyny.

All nature "cares about" are results.

http://www.google.com/#q=cuckolding+couples+happiness+study&hl=en&prmd=imvnsb&ei=G-RYT9WyKrL_sQLEu-3QDQ&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=9970e3d003ee7d92&biw=1280&bih=736




PeonForHer -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 11:01:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Cucking is a kink that is entirely sexual, and if may use the term, phallocentric. It's all about the peen, one's not "good enough", the other's shinier or curves the right way. The potential for entertainment is there, I am not going to say it's not. It's also a grenade with a loose pin for reasons already discussed. If it's something the man wants---and let's be honest, this IS a male oriented kink--then it needs to be hinted at, massaged, threatened all the time. Otherwise, well, isn't it Lady Pact who said an expectation is a resentment waiting to happen?


Is it so largely phallocentric and male-centred? I thought LP, for one, thought otherwise. I don't think I could suggest it to a partner, myself. The enthusiasm for it would have to come from her.

If such instigation were to come from her, though, that might make it even more of a risky game for me. A man going off to bonk another woman is more likely to see such bonking as a purely sexual thing. A woman, though . . . I'd be more suspicious of her developing deeper feelings and emotional connections with the man, eventually transferring the love she once had for me towards him; perhaps, finally, her dumping me in favour of him, too.




MsSylverdawn -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 11:26:36 AM)

I was speaking recently with a friend who has a significantly long cucking relationship. He was her submissive and she was never physically initmate with him. He did not even participate in any sexual encounters with her and her lovers. He said that it is a on the surface it is a highly sexualized kink that in fact its deeply emotional for the cuck and needs to be handled sensitively.

MsB.




PeonForHer -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 11:35:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSylverdawn

I was speaking recently with a friend who has a significantly long cucking relationship. He was her submissive and she was never physically initmate with him. He did not even participate in any sexual encounters with her and her lovers. He said that it is a on the surface it is a highly sexualized kink that in fact its deeply emotional for the cuck and needs to be handled sensitively.

MsB.


I think that such an arrangement could work if the initial relationship between partners were to be a cool one - perhaps, even, a cold one. That is, if it were to involve an 'aloof Goddess' and 'mere slave' sort of dynamic. I know that such dynamics can work for some.




MsSylverdawn -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 11:52:24 AM)

I think in the end he left because he began to feel taken for granted. He was her bottom ( pain slut ) for most of the relationship as well as her cuck. And, after the dynamic began to fail he felt like he was being used as a trophy for her to show off to her friends. Lookie here what I have.. this great sub/masochist look what he will endure for me.. but there was no interest in her part of him as a person. So he left and now no longer subs..occasionally bottoms I believe but he is the one in control. So thats my concern about the dynamic the potential for such a deeply impactful emtional wound.

MsB.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 11:54:07 AM)

In a situation where I had a servant that I didn't have sex with, and others that I did... well, I have done that. Deeply complicated. I am more of a traditionalist when it comes to defining "cuckold" as a person who is akin to a spouse, whose wife has the freedom to entertain herself. I didn't feel that I had any such agreement with the servant, and he managed to get jealous and resentful anyway!

Men: HIGH MAINTENANCE.




LadyPact -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 11:55:38 AM)

I think we're all having on and off days attempting to post.  LOL.  I didn't quote you, Hib.  Rather, I took a preemptive strike.  I sat down for a little while this morning and wrote a journal entry.  The reason that I did so was to try to shed a little light on removing some common misconceptions.  Some of which have been on this thread and others that get brought in as confusion. 

The journal entry is completely based on what can be termed a cuckolding dynamic.  For anybody who would like to take the time to read it, I'd like for people to notice some very specific things:

At no time do I use more than mild discomfort/humiliation.

I keep it service based.

I balance it to an authority dynamic.

There are no lies, no confirmation of sex with another person, or open announcement of what the activities will include.

The journal entry does hold the key elements:  The submissive is sexually excited, has to balance that excitement with his feelings that could lead to his embarrassment, and connects with his emotional attachment to the Dominant. 

Enjoy it when you have the opportunity.  It may end up in the creative writing section.




PeonForHer -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 12:01:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSylverdawn

I think in the end he left because he began to feel taken for granted. He was her bottom ( pain slut ) for most of the relationship as well as her cuck. And, after the dynamic began to fail he felt like he was being used as a trophy for her to show off to her friends. Lookie here what I have.. this great sub/masochist look what he will endure for me.. but there was no interest in her part of him as a person. So he left and now no longer subs..occasionally bottoms I believe but he is the one in control. So thats my concern about the dynamic the potential for such a deeply impactful emtional wound.

MsB.


Bloody hell, I'd have to be a huge sight tougher than I am now to handle that kind of experience.




LadyPact -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 12:02:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
http://www.google.com/#q=cuckolding+couples+happiness+study&hl=en&prmd=imvnsb&ei=G-RYT9WyKrL_sQLEu-3QDQ&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=9970e3d003ee7d92&biw=1280&bih=736

This link is nothing more than the google results for the term.  The book that is the first entry on the list is the same author of the article that you linked earlier.  I'm not seeing it attached to polyandry or prostitution.  That is the study that I would like to see.




PeonForHer -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 12:07:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

In a situation where I had a servant that I didn't have sex with, and others that I did... well, I have done that. Deeply complicated. I am more of a traditionalist when it comes to defining "cuckold" as a person who is akin to a spouse, whose wife has the freedom to entertain herself. I didn't feel that I had any such agreement with the servant, and he managed to get jealous and resentful anyway!


I could be that kind of a servant, I think, but only in small doses. Certainly not 'live in'. I'd have to cut and run with little notice if things were to get on top of me, too - which I could easily imagine happening.

Or, I could just spank the Domme in question soundly till she learnt her lesson.




MrBukani -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 12:19:49 PM)

Mi Mum always said you cant keep a beautifull woman.
So I'm generous enough to share.[:D]
Who gives a fuck if it dont last. I was only interested in a good fuck.




LadyPact -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 12:39:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Is it so largely phallocentric and male-centred? I thought LP, for one, thought otherwise. I don't think I could suggest it to a partner, myself. The enthusiasm for it would have to come from her.

I do happen to think otherwise.  When a person is catering to the male because it's his kink, sure.  Very similar to the "only submit to things that are liked" theory. 

quote:

If such instigation were to come from her, though, that might make it even more of a risky game for me. A man going off to bonk another woman is more likely to see such bonking as a purely sexual thing. A woman, though . . . I'd be more suspicious of her developing deeper feelings and emotional connections with the man, eventually transferring the love she once had for me towards him; perhaps, finally, her dumping me in favour of him, too.

That is the fear and/or jealousy aspect that some people enjoy.  It's emotionally based.  Some cuckold arrangements avoid anything other than single experiences with any particular person so this doesn't become an issue.  Emotionally, it is a fear of yours, but if you could think of it in a practical aspect, how often does a woman run off with somebody who is a one night stand?




PeonForHer -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 12:54:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
That is the fear and/or jealousy aspect that some people enjoy.  It's emotionally based.  Some cuckold arrangements avoid anything other than single experiences with any particular person so this doesn't become an issue.  Emotionally, it is a fear of yours, but if you could think of it in a practical aspect, how often does a woman run off with somebody who is a one night stand?


I don't know. Relatively rarely, I'd say. But, then, I think it's relatively rare for a woman to have a one night stand, minus any great emotional build-up to it.

But, OK, I see a practical out there: if both parties are involved right from the start, and in all activities, with nothing underhand . . . maybe. (I was the cuckolder myself, once, in a situation like that. We only 'played' when all three of us were present. It worked for a while, till the couple ditched me without any stated reason. I was OK afterwards - I still don't know if the couple concerned were, though.)

But, I have to say, if a partner were to announce to me one day, 'I want to go with other men', I'd strongly suspect she already had been with another man and was also already emotionally attached to him.

But I realise I'm speaking beyond my knowledge, here. I'm guided by what feel like too many personal anecdotes and not a few little prejudices.




whisper676 -> RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding (3/8/2012 1:33:47 PM)

I saw this posting and read with interest. I'm married (to a mostly vanilla man, who is not Dominant at all). Before we were ever married, we'd talked about fantasies, and had a couple of long term threesomes. I say long term, because it was much more than a one night fling. It was always MMF, although I did have a couple of bi experiences with women, which my husband enjoyed watching, but never joined in.

Anyways... Over time, I started expressing my desire to submit again (had experimented in college and loved it, but drifted away as that boyfriend and I went our separate ways). Soon, I was looking for a Dom to serve, and that was the end of just plain ol' plain ol' threesomes.

I've never considered my husband to be a cuck, as he knows exactly what I'm doing and with whom. He just enjoys watching and isn't jealous at all. He attends all first and early meets, and once he's comfortable with who I am playing with, is ok with me going for one on one sessions, although he still really enjoys the watching and so wants to be included in some. I always sort of cringed when Doms would call him a cuck, because I didn't think of him that way, he's my husband, my partner. He's not into the cleaning afterwards or the humiliation aspects. My husband and I are very open in discussing the things going on, and if ever he started feeling like it was interfering in our marriage, I would stop in a heartbeat.

That being said... After a 3 1/2 year hiatus, I've been looking to step back into the lifestyle and have been in talks with someone who is much more experienced than anyone else from my past. He's looking to eventually own me, and give me a collar. I'm struggling with this, as it's not something I've wanted in the past, and I'm wondering effect that can/will have on my marriage. That's an entirely different topic, however, and to drag it back to the cuckhold aspect, this Dom has told my husband he will be cleaning me/us afterwards etc. My husband has embraced the idea of a chastity device, and seems to be enthusiastic about the other ideas the Dom has broached.

No words of wisdom... Just an example of what we've got and what has worked for us.




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