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RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 2:29:36 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

DaddySatyr, forgive me if I'm wrong, but you are asking the extreme right NOT to be hypocritical and investigate Rubio's birth?


I deleted out your generalized attack and chose to answer the direct question. Thank you for asking for clarification, rather than making slanderous assumptions.

That is exactly what I am calling for.

Should this man be named to a campaign as V.P. candidate, he will have undergone almost no vetting (compared to the tops of the tickets) and (IMO) would fly in the spirit of the eligibility requirement to hold the office to which he would aspire.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 2:39:05 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		President presented his birth certificate during the primaries, during the election and twice AFTER the election, added to that a REPUBLICAN governor of Hawaii visually VERIFIED the damn thing existed, what more do you want, the voice of god?

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RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 2:57:49 PM   
Winterapple


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Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		FR
Obama and Rubio are both natural born
citizens.
Both are eligible to be president and run
for the presidency.
Where their parents were born is irrelevant.
Does the name Andrew Jackson ring a bell?
The thought processes of a birther aren't
that different from believing in Bigfoot.
Except you can make a more convincing
argument for the existence Bigfoot.


_____________________________

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RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 3:35:48 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		Michael, if Rubio was born in the states, he is a natural born citizen. I guess you could even say he was an "Anchor Baby". (boy wouldn't that go over like a turd in the punchbowl for those on the Far Right)

We have had presidents before that were born to immigrant parents so there is no problem there.

You might want to go look at the history books again regarding the Bautista regime. The bastage was pretty despotic and very damn corrupt.

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RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 4:44:48 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

DaddySatyr, forgive me if I'm wrong, but you are asking the extreme right NOT to be hypocritical and investigate Rubio's birth?


I deleted out your generalized attack and chose to answer the direct question. Thank you for asking for clarification, rather than making slanderous assumptions.

That is exactly what I am calling for.

Should this man be named to a campaign as V.P. candidate, he will have undergone almost no vetting (compared to the tops of the tickets) and (IMO) would fly in the spirit of the eligibility requirement to hold the office to which he would aspire.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


Yes, well I was being sarcastic. You'll be waiting a long time if you are asking the GOP not to be hypocritical....good luck with that....

_____________________________

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RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 4:54:00 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You might want to go look at the history books again regarding the Bautista regime. The bastage was pretty despotic and very damn corrupt.


Ahhhhh But, "we" were making money there so, all was well. Don't think for a moment that the US wasn't supporting Bautista. In light of those two facts, please notice how I worded it: "...and to our way of thinking...". I was not making the case that the Rubios left a paradise; just our government's view of the situation vís-á-vís immigration status.

and since someone used the word I abhor; while I don't like "visiting the sins of the father..." should "anchor babies" (which doesn't really fit because by all accounts, they were in this country 12 years before he was born) truly be considered "natural born"? Again; in view of the spirit of the eligibility clause, I think it's something that warrents, at least, some thought and I'd like the truth to be brought forth.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 5:54:51 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You might want to go look at the history books again regarding the Bautista regime. The bastage was pretty despotic and very damn corrupt.


Ahhhhh But, "we" were making money there so, all was well. Don't think for a moment that the US wasn't supporting Bautista. In light of those two facts, please notice how I worded it: "...and to our way of thinking...". I was not making the case that the Rubios left a paradise; just our government's view of the situation vís-á-vís immigration status.

and since someone used the word I abhor; while I don't like "visiting the sins of the father..." should "anchor babies" (which doesn't really fit because by all accounts, they were in this country 12 years before he was born) truly be considered "natural born"? Again; in view of the spirit of the eligibility clause, I think it's something that warrents, at least, some thought and I'd like the truth to be brought forth.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

"Anchor Baby" was a bit of a snark at those on the fringe Right. As for Bautista being a despot, yes, 'businessmen' in the US were making a lot of money from him. We made a lot of money off the Shah as well. Both were despots.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 6:00:25 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

"Anchor Baby" was a bit of a snark at those on the fringe Right. As for Bautista being a despot, yes, 'businessmen' in the US were making a lot of money from him. We made a lot of money off the Shah as well. Both were despots.


Which leads into my next point ... just to illustrate the importance (to me) of the spirit of the eligibility clause, imagine that the Rubio family is named Khalil and hails from Yemin or Lebanon or Syria (even in 1956, there was no more "Palestine").

The reason the clause was included was to try (they failed by way of being vague) to make sure that only people loyal to America, with no other ties or allegiences would sit in the oval office. Honestly, I thought Kissinger and Brzezinski (I hope I spelled it right) were a bit too far up the chain of succession for comfort but, I was a bit too young to understand how to make my opinion known.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 6:07:04 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Honestly, I thought Kissinger and Brzezinski (I hope I spelled it right) were a bit too far up the chain of succession for comfort but, I was a bit too young to understand how to make my opinion known.


I'm curious: What about them discomforted you? Their views or their being born in other countries? Or something else?

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 6:09:06 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		The fact that they were born in foreign countries, most particularly Brzezinski who was Russian, at a time when were still embroiled in the Cold War.

True enough, trust is part of building bridges but it comes dear from me, when I'm thinking of the well-being of my country.

ETA: I'm not saying it's likely that we'd get down to the number 4 in the order of succession but, given the amount of tragedies for which people don't plan, it's not exactly out of the realm of possibility that a Secretary of State could someday wind up President.

ETAA: See how young I was? I thought Zbig was a SoS. He wasn't. Damn my memory sucks I retract my damnation of that damned Russkie LOL



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/11/2012 6:19:41 PM >

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 6:17:18 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		I think Brzezinski was Polish. Weren't he and Kissinger both pretty fierce Cold Warriors?

Do you really thing foreign birth necessarily precludes serving the US loyally?

Christian Heurich, an immigrant businessman here in DC (where he was the city's largest private employer, for what that's worth), was once asked about his loyalties, and I think he answered rather deftly and beautifully. "Germany," he said, "is my mother, but America is my bride."

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 6:20:08 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

The fact that they were born in foreign countries, most particularly Brzezinski who was Russian, at a time when were still embroiled in the Cold War.

True enough, trust is part of building bridges but it comes dear from me, when I'm thinking of the well-being of my country.

ETA: I'm not saying it's likely that we'd get down to the number 4 in the order of succession but, given the amount of tragedies for which people don't plan, it's not exactly out of the realm of possibility that a Secretary of State could someday wind up President.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

You're making a good point about that. I've also wondered why congressmen don't have to be a natural born citizen

If a foreign born congressman gets elected, and then is selected as speaker of the house do they forfeit their position in the succession?

For Instance, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen was born in Cuba. If she was selected speaker of the house, that could cause problems as she would be second in line after the Veep.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 6:24:02 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I think Brzezinski was Polish. Weren't he and Kissinger both pretty fierce Cold Warriors?

Do you really thing foreign birth necessarily precludes serving the US loyally?

Christian Heurich, an immigrant businessman here in DC (where he was the city's largest private employer, for what that's worth), was once asked about his loyalties, and I think he answered rather deftly and beautifully. "Germany," he said, "is my mother, but America is my bride."



Words in red: I think that's a nice sentiment but, I don't think that's what the founders had in mind and please re-visit my statement about "trust"

Bolded words: That's a very nice, poetic story and I'm sure he meant it but, it doesn't matter to me (and he's not in the line of succession). I think we need to guard, fiercely, our highest office.

In the interest of full disclosure: I lean more toward isolationism than buying into the globalist ideal.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 6:28:03 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

The fact that they were born in foreign countries, most particularly Brzezinski who was Russian, at a time when were still embroiled in the Cold War.

True enough, trust is part of building bridges but it comes dear from me, when I'm thinking of the well-being of my country.

ETA: I'm not saying it's likely that we'd get down to the number 4 in the order of succession but, given the amount of tragedies for which people don't plan, it's not exactly out of the realm of possibility that a Secretary of State could someday wind up President.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

You're making a good point about that. I've also wondered why congressmen don't have to be a natural born citizen

If a foreign born congressman gets elected, and then is selected as speaker of the house do they forfeit their position in the succession?

For Instance, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen was born in Cuba. If she was selected speaker of the house, that could cause problems as she would be second in line after the Veep.


I'm not sure that "forfeit" is even the right word. I believe the eligibility clause pre-cludes (emphasis intentional; not a typo) their consideration. That would rest well if my contention about Rubio is correct but...

Why would we put ourselves in that position? God forbid any president dies while in office, do we want a smooth transition or questions, accusations, and choices made out of fear or ignorance of direction?

ETA: In my newest video blog (not yet posted), I talk about this, a bit. I don't care which party is in office (because it damned well won't be mine for a while), I care about what's best for the country, no matter who's in office.

For people to assume that I wish evil on the current POTUS is silly. I didn't vote for him and I didn't want him to win but, when he was declared winner, my first thought was: "Let's hope he can do what he's claimed he intends to do" and I meant it. My concern will always be for country, before any particular party affiliation.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/11/2012 6:33:02 PM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 6:57:30 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		The native born thing was thrown in
to keep Alexander Hamilton from being
president. Or largely was as any number
of historians and learned people(like Gore
Vidal) will attest. It was the only thing that
could have kept that wily guy from taking
the oath.
Brzezinski is or was Polish. He's now a Polish
American and a very impressive man.
You must not know much about his politics
or Polish attitudes towards Russia or the
Soviet Union. Not big fans. The whole
Iron Curtain thing wasn't popular with
the people forced behind it. Brzezinski
was a Cold Warrior and had no pro Russian
or Soviet sympathies. Read up on his
thoughts on the Russian Afghan war.
I don't think someone who was born in
another country as opposed to a American
territory like McCain was in the Panama
Canal zone could be speaker of the House
and in the line if succession.
Kissinger was Secretary of State but I
don't think he could have been President.
Conviently there's a long list of people.
It's insulting, I think to question the loyalty
of the children of immagrants. They seem
actually to be some of the was appreciative
of citizens having firsthand accounts many
times of tyranny.
Of course distrust of foreigners even those
who are as much an American as you are
has a long nasty history in the US.
Mid nineteenth century or thereabouts
when the dirty Irish came pouring in,
then the Italians both inconveniently largely
Catholic(so good WASPS know who they
were really loyal to) and then the Eastern
Europeans and Russians fleeing pograms.
No need to even bring up the Chinese.
At least Italian men and their sons could
vote.
Cold War paranoia cranked this fear of
"outsiders" up in all sorts of fun ways.
Anyone not several generations in and
from hardy Northern European preferably
Protestant stock is questionable.
That this bigotry and paranoia is at
the root of great deal of hatred of Obama
is obvious. The nineteenth century
is apparently not entirely over in some
quarters.



_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud




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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 8:00:41 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam



If a foreign born congressman gets elected, and then is selected as speaker of the house do they forfeit their position in the succession?


Yes.

quote:

For Instance, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen was born in Cuba. If she was selected speaker of the house, that could cause problems as she would be second in line after the Veep.

No problems. She would just be skipped over and it would go to the next in line.

_____________________________

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 8:01:14 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		ty Bita

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 8:12:55 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

ty Bita


My answer was insufficient?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 8:22:22 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

ty Bita


My answer was insufficient?

No, it's good to see confirmation from multiple sources.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: New "Birther" Controversy - 3/11/2012 8:35:55 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
quote:


My answer was insufficient?

No, it's good to see confirmation from multiple sources.


Okay, let me be more direct because while I guess I did type it kind of rhetorically, I'm curious as to what your answer might be:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysatyr
I'm not sure that "forfeit" is even the right word. I believe the eligibility clause pre-cludes (emphasis intentional; not a typo) their consideration. That would rest well if my contention about Rubio is correct but...

Why would we put ourselves in that position? God forbid any president dies while in office, do we want a smooth transition or questions, accusations, and choices made out of fear or ignorance of direction?




Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 40
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