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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 5:46:34 PM   
ReMakeYou


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You see a war against women. I see a death spiral. Radicals are trying to whip up the base, which alienates newcomers, which means they try even harder to appeal to their core constituents, etc. The presence of extremist rhetoric does not imply widespread acceptance of extremist rhetoric.

If it helps, think back to how hard people were fighting against gay marriage a few years back. Compare where we are now to where we were, even in spite of all the rhetoric. If you're really attentive, think back to how much of that drive was real political effort vs. how much was political grandstanding and reactionary hot air.

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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 5:48:48 PM   
SadistDave


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quote:

Why bother to respond to someone as dogmatic and hateful as that?


You want to murder your unwelcome, and ultimately unproductive unborn children.

I want to encourage you to do precisely what you say you want to do.

I don't see why you would have an issue with that...

-SD-

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 5:49:30 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

You want to murder your unwelcome, and ultimately unproductive unborn children.


Intellectually dishonest.



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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 5:53:00 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

You want to murder your unwelcome, and ultimately unproductive unborn children.


Intellectually dishonest.



Agreed.

As an aside.. I really need to get me a 'sluts vote' avatar. I love 'em even though, technically, I'm not a slut since I am not on birth control. lol

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 5:53:04 PM   
Lucylastic


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its a legal medical procedure
Murder isnt

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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 5:54:49 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

You want to murder your unwelcome, and ultimately unproductive unborn children.


Intellectually dishonest.



Agreed.

As an aside.. I really need to get me a 'sluts vote' avatar. I love 'em even though, technically, I'm not a slut since I am not on birth control. lol



The definition is.... "slut".. a woman with the morals of a man.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 5:55:21 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Kansas to Pregnant Women: "A Little Lie from Your Doctor Won't Hurt You" Posted by Jennifer Dalven, Reproductive Freedom Project at 12:54pm It's what every pregnant woman I know dreads. Going into that big ultrasound, having the ultrasound tech, who had been so chatty, suddenly go silent. Having her do sweep after sweep across your belly without saying another word, until finally, she gets up and solemnly says, "I am going to get the doctor."
As far as pregnancy nightmares go, I thought that was one of the worst. But now politicians in Kansas are giving pregnant women and their partners something new to worry about. Buried in a sweeping anti-abortion bill is a provision that would immunize a doctor who discovers that a baby will be born with a devastating condition and deliberately withholds that information from his patient. That's right. If the bill passes, a doctor who opposes abortion could decide to lie about the results of your blood tests, your ultrasound, your cvs or your amnio. Lie to you so that you won't have information that might lead you to decide to end your pregnancy or that might lead you to learn more about your child's condition so that you are prepared to be the best parent you can be to your child.
Now, I have been working for a long time defending the right of a pregnant woman to make the best decision for herself and her family, whether that is continuing the pregnancy, adoption, or abortion, based on full, accurate information. I thought I had seen just about every manner of government intrusion into those fundamentally personal and private decisions. I thought I was past the point of being shocked and outraged. But as a mother who has been through those ultrasounds myself, the thought that my doctor could choose to withhold this information from me and take this decision away from me and my husband ... well, let's just say it really touched a nerve.
And, unfortunately, it's not just Kansas. Other states motivated by anti-abortion zeal are jumping on the it's-ok-for-doctors-to lie-to-their-patients-to-prevent-them-from-having-an-abortion bandwagon. Oklahoma recently passed a similar law. And, the Arizona legislature is considering a similar bill.
But I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Despite the rhetoric of anti-abortion politicians about how all these restrictions are necessary to ensure that women's decisions are well-informed, it's never been about that. Doctors who provide abortions already work hard to ensure that every woman has the information she needs to make the best decision for herself and her family. What these bills are about is politicians who think they know better than women and who are trying to impose their own views on abortion on a woman and her family regardless of the circumstances: That's what's behind those now infamous ultrasound bills in places like Virginia, Idaho, and Pennsylvania. That's what's behind the bills in Georgia and Arizona that would ban abortion at the point when a woman often learns about a devastating diagnosis. And that is what is behind so many of the other bills working their way through the state legislatures right now. The Kansas bill is, in a way, just more upfront about it.
Well, enough is enough. We may not all agree about abortion, but we can all agree that these decisions ought to be made by a woman and her family, not a politician. So, whether you are a man or a woman; whether you are already a parent or think you might become one in the future; whether you are blissfully pregnant or unhappily so, if you care about your right to make your own decisions, I ask that you help get the word out. Share this blog on Facebook and Twitter. Send an email with this link to the President of the Kansas Senate. Tell the politicians all over the country to stop interfering in a family's personal and private decisions.


SadistDave's comments, IMO, were funny, but also wrong. Well, except for the disagreeing with the legislation part.

I have taken a class in Medical Ethics. It is a very convoluted and there are gray areas. If telling a patient the truth is likely to cause more health problems for the patient, it may be okay to lie. In this case, however, lying to a patient about her pregnancy isn't likely to protect her from more health problems.

Ethically, I can't honestly support this legislation. You want to talk about a "slippery slope" scenario? That's the beginnings of one right there.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 5:56:49 PM   
SadistDave


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quote:

Intellectually dishonest.


Intellectually devoid of content.

If you believe that an unborn child is not alive, then you can call it whatever you choose to call it. However, just claiming something is intellectually dishonest with nothing to back it up is rather ridiculous, and frankly an idiotic way to present your arguement.

-SD-

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 5:56:49 PM   
tazzygirl


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If telling a patient the truth is likely to cause more health problems for the patient, it may be okay to lie.

Medically speaking.. and ethically.. its never ok to tell a patient a lie about his/her health.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:01:42 PM   
SadistDave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If telling a patient the truth is likely to cause more health problems for the patient, it may be okay to lie.

Medically speaking.. and ethically.. its never ok to tell a patient a lie about his/her health.


I'm sure we can agree on this at least... I find it morally reprehensible that anyone would even endorse lying to someone about any health issue. I think it has implications in medicine that go far beyond whether or not someone believes that abortion is murder. If a doctor can impose his or her personal opinions on someone for any reason, then they can impose them for every reason. Ultimately this sort of policy would find it's way into mental health, prescription medicine, etc.

-SD-

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:02:09 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

Intellectually dishonest.


Intellectually devoid of content.

If you believe that an unborn child is not alive, then you can call it whatever you choose to call it. However, just claiming something is intellectually dishonest with nothing to back it up is rather ridiculous, and frankly an idiotic way to present your arguement.

-SD-


Its the only argument your post required.

Its not murder.. murder is an illegal act. Abortion is legal.

Yet it is interesting to note that you support the death penalty... another act of ending what is without a doubt a life.

At 20 weeks, viability is not possible. At or before 20 weeks gestation, it cannot live outside the womb. Physicians wont even attempt to prevent a miscarriage before 20 weeks. Yet we are supposed to accept that something that cannot live outside the womb is a life?

Get back to me with that intellectually dishonest argument when you can prove that life begins and is sustainable on its own at the moment of conception.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SadistDave)
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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:04:02 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If telling a patient the truth is likely to cause more health problems for the patient, it may be okay to lie.

Medically speaking.. and ethically.. its never ok to tell a patient a lie about his/her health.


I'm sure we can agree on this at least... I find it morally reprehensible that anyone would even endorse lying to someone about any health issue. I think it has implications in medicine that go far beyond whether or not someone believes that abortion is murder. If a doctor can impose his or her personal opinions on someone for any reason, then they can impose them for every reason. Ultimately this sort of policy would find it's way into mental health, prescription medicine, etc.

-SD-


I do agree. Its definitely a slippery slope that can be influenced by money, power, greed, a god-complex.... Blanket immunity is a bad precedent.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SadistDave)
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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:10:02 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

Why bother to respond to someone as dogmatic and hateful as that?


You want to murder your unwelcome, and ultimately unproductive unborn children.

I want to encourage you to do precisely what you say you want to do.

I don't see why you would have an issue with that...

-SD-

By what context do you call abortion "Murder"?. The fetus cannot live on its own.

You say "It's life". So is a bacterium. We kill those by the billions. Are you becoming a Bhuddist?

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:18:52 PM   
SadistDave


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quote:

Yet it is interesting to note that you support the death penalty... another act of ending what is without a doubt a life


I don't see an inconsistancy there. I support the states right to murder criminals as much as I support a womans right to murder unwanted children. I also support killing people in war and to defend yourself. I am really kind of fine with the notion of death. I just don't feel the need to lie to myself about what I believe. And really, thats all anyone seems to have a problem with. I'm willing to say that I am an open advocate of several legalized forms of murder. If the only way you can sleep at night is to convince yourself that abortion is a simply medical procedure thats your issue. I suffer no such illusions.

Odd... You seem to take issue with the fact that I would support the death penalty, but in many states the death penalty is administered by doctors, which by your own definition makes it a "medical procedure"... If anything I would say that you are the one being inconsistant in your approach to legalized murder if you are willing to excuse one as a simple medical procedure but condemn the other.

-SD-

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 3/12/2012 6:19:55 PM >

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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:20:21 PM   
erieangel


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I work in health care, I know HIPPA and nowhere is it even implied that it is ok to lie to a patient for any reason!!

This legislation isn't a slippery slope, it is contrary to federal HIPPA and other health care laws.


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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:20:35 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

I support the states right to murder criminals as much as I support a womans right to murder unwanted children.


And there is your disconnect.

What unwanted children are being murdered?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:25:08 PM   
Winterapple


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FR
What is going on in Arizona?
They've got the dumbass birther sheriff.
They've got the nutty governor who thinks
the deserts are full of decapitated citizens
and that Obama tried to mug her at the airport.
The deranged guy who shot Gabrielle Gifford.
And now a bill like this.
That's a lot of nutfuckery breaking out
at once.
But maybe people need to see the pus
filled blisters to see the disease.
And there is no such thing as an unborn
child. If it's a child it was born.
Intellectual dishonesty covers it nicely.


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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:32:34 PM   
erieangel


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Just to set the record straight, Tazzy, I and others are hung up on your insistence of referring to a legal procedure as murder. Murder happens to be illegal. Therefore, agree with abortion or not, it isn't murder. Nor is the death penalty...as it is legal for the state to put criminals to death as the state sees fit to do so.

I'm no pro-abortionist. Nor do I necessarily consider myself even pro-choice. In a perfect world an unwanted pregnancy would end with birth and adoption. But this isn't a perfect world. And I have no desire to go back to the days of underground, back alley clinics, unsanitary conditions, and women dying from botched abortions. By ignoring the realities of the world, that is exactly what the pro-lifers are going to bring us.


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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:42:02 PM   
SadistDave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I support the states right to murder criminals as much as I support a womans right to murder unwanted children.


And there is your disconnect.

What unwanted children are being murdered?


It's a simple moral belief. You believe that life begins only when a fetus is viable. That's your right. You just go ahead and believe that. I believe that life begins at the moment of conception. That is my right to believe. This idea that it's not life because it can't survive on it's own is nonsense. It is about the same as believing that killing people on life support is okay because they cannot survive on their own.

Honestly, I've never considered that but I think I would consider it murder too. I'm not sure I would consider it as justifiable as murdering a serial killer or rapist, so I'll have to get back on you on that one...

There is no disconnect. If I believe that it's murder to abort a fetus as soon as conception occurs and I support killing a fetus then I support murder by my own definition. How is that unclear? The only disconnect here is that you fail to understand that I'm really okay with calling it murder even when I support it. I don't feel the need to disguise my beliefs in warm-fuzzy nonsense to justify them to myself, which is actually the only issue you seem to have with me.

I call it murder when you advocate it and I call it murder when I advocate it. If that makes you uncomfortable, then maybe you should rethink your beliefs. I'm really okay with mine and see no reason to change them just because some people can't deal with them.

-SD-

(edited for clarity)

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 3/12/2012 6:53:57 PM >

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RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". - 3/12/2012 6:48:50 PM   
tj444


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the US is a scary place.. oddly enough, its not the strangers in the street that scare me, its the politicians, the govt and the police presence..

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