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RE: Speaking of pushing seniors off a cliff... - 3/16/2012 6:35:23 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

I realize that the great 2012 fear and loathing machine of the Obama campaign is all about the "war on women," theme this week, but elsewhere in the world, a woman not sucked into that fools drama has been writing about a subject that same fear and loathing machine doesn't want to get anywhere near.


So ........ there is one woman out there so not overcome by "fear and loathing" that she has worked out that the 1100 odd GOP anti-women pieces of legislation don't actually add up to a 'war on women' but are in fact a "fools drama". Not "sucked in" not one little bit! Gee, that saves a few GOP asses, doesn't it? I'm sure she doesn't wear blue dresses either.

Now for the really important bit: Is that woman Sarah P or Michelle B? Do tell us Mr TheHeretic, we really need to know!

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/16/2012 6:39:06 AM >


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RE: Speaking of pushing seniors off a cliff... - 3/16/2012 6:41:52 AM   
TheHeretic


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That would be the woman who authored the article I linked to in the first post Tweak. Did you bother to read it, or are you just replying in automatic disagreement to an avatar you don't like?

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RE: Speaking of pushing seniors off a cliff... - 3/16/2012 7:00:21 AM   
xssve


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Oh you guys are too much, fearmongering? Lol. The right is still spreading fear, no mongering necessary.

We've got serious structural problems that go back to Reaganomics. Clinton-Gore, and even to some extent, George H. planned a way out of it, but George W. pretty much made hash of that, with the help of the Tea Party (which didn't exist then, but basically the same bunch of Pseudo libertarian Mises/Hayek groupies), who just don't seem to know how marketing cycles work, and see subsidizing for their favorite industries while manipulating the money supply to keep wages down as "Free market", but minimum wage, universal healthcare, and regulation to prevent predatory and monopolistic practices somehow "distorting", flipping 100 years of highly successful praxis on it head, giving us 30 years now of declining wages, eroding infrastructure, wealth consolidation and transfer (to the top), and a dead in the water economy.

The road to serfdom indeed.

And that ain't fearmongering baby, it ain't magic, it's just economics.

Bernanke is out of options, we're skirting the edge of a big fucking hole republicans dug, and want to keep on digging till we all fall in.

< Message edited by xssve -- 3/16/2012 7:04:41 AM >


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RE: Speaking of pushing seniors off a cliff... - 3/16/2012 8:38:10 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Oh, and Heretic, most speculative fiction is far more adult and intelligent than the sample you offer. You need to get your mind out of the...comic books.




Again, DNAV, what planet of multi-breasted women is it, where printing money like crazy doesn't inevitiably lead to the money losing value?




Robert Heinlein's and Spider Robinson's For Us The Living, discusses the government printing extra money. Instead of having the government borrow it from banks who 'draw it out of inkwells' the government creates the money from its own ink wells. There is even an economic game that can be played that is described. It is a rather interesting concept.

And yes, the future that Heinlein is describing is fairly close to a utopia.

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RE: Speaking of pushing seniors off a cliff... - 3/16/2012 8:48:56 AM   
TrekkieLP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking]BTW, I write science fiction, and I can tell you we in the 'trade' do a far better job of predicting the future and examining the consequences of social policy than some people I could name.


Remembering an interview I'd read with, I think, Arthur Clarke.

He mentioned that he'd recently been invited to give an address about the ability of science fiction to forecast the future. That some notable (and rather exaggerated) claims about spectacular things like Jules Verne "inventing the submarine", and Clarke "inventing the communications satellite" were mentioned. But that other, notably erroneous predictions seem to be ignored. (Fir example, Verne's Nautalus was powered by sticking dissimilar metals into seawater, and letting them corrode, to produce electricity.)

And he illustrates this point by discussing the first science fiction story he ever sold.

At the time, one item that was big in the current news was the story that yet another attempt to climb Mount Everest had failed. That this was yet another in a string of failures, all by very famous and skilled mountain climbers. People were starting to talk about curses and powers and "things that man was not meant to do".

So Clarke wrote a story. The story involved an expedition setting out to attempt to become The First. The expedition had made it a good ways up the mountain, constructed a base camp, and the Intrepid Explorer had gone ahead to scout out possible routs, and to decide which path the expedition would take for their next leg.

When a sudden, unexpected, blizzard had come in. Pinning everyone in place, unable to travel.

The explorer was alone. With only the one day's supplies he had carried with him. In particular, in addition to not carrying any long-term shelter or food, Intrepid Explorer was only carrying enough oxygen for a day, maybe two, if he'd been very careful and conservative.

The storm kept everybody pinned for over a week.

When the storm finally lifted, the dispirited expedition began sending out scouts, to at least attempt to recover the body of Intrepid Explorer.

And, a day later, Intrepid Explorer walked down off of the mountain. Not only alive, but completely uninjured.

Explorer then explains that, when the storm came up, a mysterious light had appeared, and had led him to a cave in the ice. This cave was sheltered from the wind. And, even more miraculous, it was lit from within, heated, and had a breathable amount of oxygen, at a normal, sea level, atmospheric pressure. This despite the fact that the cave had no door, simply an opening.

Explorer then explains that the top of Everest is occupied. By people who possess vastly advanced technology. And who do not want people coming around to bother them. That the freak accidents, the storms out of nowhere, the unexpected avalanches, the unscalable cliffs or chasms, all were artificially created by these people, as a way of preventing visitors.

But that these people were, frankly, getting tired of trying to come up with ways to blocking visitors, while making them look natural. They created that storm, and artificially protected him from it, as a means of sending him back down off the mountain, with the message "quit bothering us, or we're gonna get mad".

People point out how hostile the conditions atop Everest are to life, the cold, the wind, the storms, the lack of food, the lack of air. They point out that "nothing of Earth could live up there", Intrepid Explorer opines that he doesn't think that the people living on Everest are from Earth. He doesn't necessarily state that they're from Mars. But he draws parallels to Mars, and observes that it's certainly possible that life could evolve, somewhere, that likes the conditions atop Everest. That evolved for those conditions. That this life might very well regard Everest, not as the most hostile environment on Earth, but as the most desirable.

----------

Clarke wrote this story. Sent it off. And had it bought. I think he said that he got something like ten dollars for it.

He was really proud of it. He was now a Real Author. He wanted to keep the check as proof of his accomplishment. But he needed the money, and had to cash it.

And then, he waied for his story to actually appear in the magazine.

Well, science fiction magazines in those days had really long lead times. He waited several months, all without his story actually being published.

And, several months later, Sir Edmund Hillary became the first person to successfully climb Everest.

So, Clarke wrote to the editor of the magazine. He understands that one of the rules of science fiction is that the story can contain science that does not yet exist. But that it cannot outright contradict any known fact or element of science. Clarke understands that his story now violates that rule. He explains that he's already spent the money, but he feels that ethics compels him to try to pay the money back, and he intends to do so as soon as he can.

The editor wrote back, telling him to keep the money. In fact, the editor things that Clarke's "Martians on Everest" is a great tie-in for all of the publicity that Everest is getting in the news, and the editor intends to publish Clarke's story in the next issue, to cash in on that publicity. (Well, not the issue that was coming out in two weeks. That one is already being printed. But the issue that would be coming out in 6 weeks.)

----------

So, Clarke says, he likes to point out, every time somebody praises him for "inventing the communications satellite", that he also, in writing, predicted that Everest would never be climbed, two months after it was climbed.

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RE: Speaking of pushing seniors off a cliff... - 3/16/2012 8:58:41 AM   
xssve


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Well the money supply is relative to aggregate demand and productivity - excess production, so if you're increasing the money supply without increasing productivity, then yeah, you're gonna get inflation.

This time is a little different, M! money supply is being increased, but they stopped actually printing money a while back, after that first big currency expansion - it's increasing somewhere however, presumably in credit - there is no problem with liquidity or private cash reserves, it's a credit crunch, all that money is locked up, and nobody wants to lend any money out.

And if nobody is lending, an economy based on investment and credit is not going to increase productivity.

Housing sales are up, which is good news because it means banks are lending again, but I expect they're gonna be a lot more skeery this time - I doubt they're gonna be throwing credit cards at anybody with a pulse again for some time.

Thing is, banks have the most to lose from inflation, they have to invest to generate interest (and interest is tied to the money supply expansion, the multiplier), and the only way for them to avoid that is to get the economy moving again, or invest elsewhere.

There is still a shitload of outstanding debt, public and private, our children are in hock to their necks, but unsecured debt is essentially abstract wealth that has yet to be created, and there is still a huge glut of nonperforming assets from the spec housing bubble, lots of empty houses nobody can afford because they're stuck in the houses they're in and can't afford to sell.

That glut of commercial real estate from the S&L scam in the Eighties performed pretty dismally until the economy picked up, well into the Nineties, when the computerization took up the slack, and led to productivity increases.

< Message edited by xssve -- 3/16/2012 9:06:50 AM >


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RE: Speaking of pushing seniors off a cliff... - 3/16/2012 10:19:50 AM   
xssve


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The irony here is that conservative fiscal and monetary policy aren't really conservatism at all, they're neoliberalism, neoliberalism is the new conservatism, with the addition of policies designed to further accelerate income redistribution to the top deciles, chiefly debt financed subsidy for particular industries - in our case, oil, agribusiness and armaments.

Interest on debt of course, any debt, is the basis of the multiplier effect, and represents uncreated wealth, which is is already theoretically distributed to the creditor, thus net interest on all debt, public or private, represents an upward redistribution of wealth.

In a healthy economy this need not be a zero sum equation, the basis of Keynsianism which calls for infrastructure investment that not only creates jobs but lays the foundations for market expansion and future economic growth - if you're borrowing to finance outsourcing and subsidy, there are far fewer long term benefits, and the effects on job growth will tend to be minimal or even negative, as we've seen in the jobless recoveries following the last Three bubbles.

The economy is growing, but only at the top.

The recovery following Clinton's tech bubble was a little less severe because the growth was such that it strained the labor market to the point of near full employment, more jobs than people qualified to do them, this one looks to drag out a little longer, there's no NBT (Next Big Thing) to take the place of the internet and microcomputers - should have been renewable and alternative energy, both transportation and domestic, huge potential export industries, as well as biotech, but all those industries are sluggish due to lack of public investment - Ten years ago.

Instead we're stuck with aging energy and transportation infrastructure, and less time and money to invest on getting out of it, looks like China's going to be taking all Three.

S'allright though, Jesus gonna come fix everything, huh?


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