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RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:18:06 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You seem to be saying that it is ok for the Catholics (or anyone else for that matter) to force another to follow the tenets of their religion.



Strawman. I've said very much the opposite.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:21:28 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Didn't you know? Lying is the new truth: it's ok to lie to sinners in the name of John Calvin, our enabler.

You just keep hammering on it till it seems "truthy".

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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:23:01 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Lame weak non-response......


Its all he's got when he is caught.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:23:34 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Lame weak non-response......



No other response needed when your post was a logical fallacy. I'm dealing with several people trying to claim I said something I didn't at once, it's tiresome to have to correct every instance.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 3/18/2012 10:24:27 AM >

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:24:03 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You seem to be saying that it is ok for the Catholics (or anyone else for that matter) to force another to follow the tenets of their religion.



Strawman. I've said very much the opposite.


No, you didnt.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:27:26 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

No, you didnt.



Yes, I have. I've stated I'm not against BC, and on page one of this thread, I've said:



quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

To be fair, fighting against the HHS mandate isn't about trying to control reproductive lives.




That is very much not:

quote:

You seem to be saying that it is ok for the Catholics (or anyone else for that matter) to force another to follow the tenets of their religion.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:33:05 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Too many posts show that your "page one" post is a lie.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:33:12 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Nah, you're just arguing that people taking federal tax dollars to provide services should get to cherry pick what services they want to provide.

You want to make your own laws, based on your religious beliefs, and make everybody else obey them, why that''s totally different.

Like I said, just don't take the money, you can do whatever the hell you want: prayer, exorcisms, whatever voodoo you think is best - that's not going to protect you from the inevitable malpractice suits, but it is religious freedom.

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:36:44 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		If your religion says 'Fast', then go ahead and fast.

But don't go telling anyone they need to shut down the cafeteria. Keep it to yourself.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:38:14 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Too many posts show that your "page one" post is a lie.


Feel free to demonstrate.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:47:00 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
You realize you're equating birth control with heroin?


No, I'm not. You realize that's just an analogy?

Yeah, like you just picked that at random.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:47:35 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Or maybe it's that they can't in good conscience let a service they provide be an enabler of "immoral" behavior.


Advocating the right of others to decide what is moral or is not.

quote:

Probably the same difference in their eyes as an employer compensating his employees with heroin, or the employees taking their salary and going out to buy that heroin.


Comparing the prevention of something legal with the belief that its a co-dependent behavior.

quote:

I don't believe it does encumber the free exercise of conscience of anyone. Their right to obtain contraceptives would not be tread upon, nor their right to choose a provider that covers the contraceptives if they want it covered rather than paying the 15-50 dollars themselves.


When women cant pay for the rent, food, power, water, clothing, supplies and other bills that pop up with motherhood, that 15- 50 a month is a god send they dont have to pay for out of pocket.  50 dollars is a Dr visit co pay for many policies.

quote:

I'm just also equally for giving the choice whether or not it should be covered when not used to treat medical conditions, and ideally for the consumers being able to have the choice of what services they are willing to pay for.


Being pregnant is a medical condition.  Many things are prescribed to prevent medical conditions

And this is just this thread alone.

You pay lip service to the issue by claiming you are all for bc being available.  yet determine that employers should be able to decide who is eligible for what service.

Its discrimination because this is an issue that does not affect men, yet it is men who are making this very medical decision for women.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:53:19 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Advocating the right of others to decide what is moral or is not.


Wrong. It was about paying for it, not make them decide what is moral.



quote:

Comparing the prevention of something legal with the belief that its a co-dependent behavior.


Wrong. It was an analogy; as explained before.


quote:

When women cant pay for the rent, food, power, water, clothing, supplies and other bills that pop up with motherhood, that 15- 50 a month is a god send they dont have to pay for out of pocket.  50 dollars is a Dr visit co pay for many policies.


Different and valid issue for another discussion. It certainly doesn't prove my statement on page 1 is a lie.

quote:



And this is just this thread alone.



Feel free to do the same with other threads, since you've failed to provide one actual example to make the claim I was lying on page 1.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:55:18 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Lame weak non-response......



No other response needed when your post was a logical fallacy. I'm dealing with several people trying to claim I said something I didn't at once, it's tiresome to have to correct every instance.

Go elsewhere with the lame non-responses.......then.

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President Obama

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:58:20 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Wrong. It was an analogy; as explained before.


And the analogy is faulty as hell.

There is no comparing a co-dependent behavior for addiction with the prevention of something else when that prevention is perfectly legal.

You compared obtaining birth control without a co-pay as being able to obtain heroin.

And there is your true belief.  That birth control is enabling an addiction to sex.  Your true moral belief.  Stated quite plainly, no matter how you try to deny it now.

quote:

Different and valid issue for another discussion. It certainly doesn't prove my statement on page 1 is a lie.


As the one above, goes to state of mind.  If I state I am all against murder, yet do not report one, then my statement is a lie.  The same as yours.

quote:

Feel free to do the same with other threads, since you've failed to provide one actual example to make the claim I was lying on page 1.


I proved it quite sufficiently.  The fact that you want to try and deny that doesnt make it any less true.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 10:58:46 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		The insured or her insurer pays for it.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 11:00:02 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And there is your true belief.  That birth control is enabling an addiction to sex.  Your true moral belief. 



Now you are the one lying, unless your understanding of what an analogy is really is that lacking.

I've said NOTHING to imply that I believe birth control is enabling an addiction to sex, that is entirely your construction.

quote:


There is no comparing a co-dependent behavior


Do you know what my "comparison" here is?

Two things that a Catholic organization might find morally wrong. That's it, nothing more.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 3/18/2012 11:02:08 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 11:05:22 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I find myself thinking it's a bit, well, creepy for an all-male, all-unmarried elite to be so hellbent on controlling other people's reproductive lives.


To be fair, fighting against the HHS mandate isn't about trying to control reproductive lives.

It's about not wanting to pay for it.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Look, if you're getting federal funds, you have to comply with federal law, that's it, you don't want to comply with federal law? Don't accept federal funds.



The debate is kinda about what federal law should be.


No, it's about what the federal law is, and it's called equal protection under the constitution.

You all stepped in this shit when you decided it was a great idea for the taxpayers to subsidize your religion, when you already tax free - which itself constitutes a subsidy.

A lot of religious people saw this coming, and said as much at the time - didn't seem slow you down any right then though.

Reminds me of an Easter Egg hunt the city put's on every year, and every year, busloads of Baptist kids from out of the county, even out of state shows up like a swarm of locusts - it ain't god providing for you baby.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 11:05:44 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		An analogy...

1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump. 2. similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.
Now, show an analogy between heroin use and preventing a pregnancy.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate - 3/18/2012 11:06:22 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I've said NOTHING


A simple summary.

Though you've reacted a lot.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 140
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