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St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 6:56:42 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		Being the decendant of Irish immigrants (the first of which came to Plymouth, Massachusetts in 1621), I thought I'd share these with my Collarme P&R cyber-friends:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel
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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 6:57:43 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		And...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to Fightdirecto)
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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 7:00:03 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		And...




Have a fun (and safe) St. Patrick's Day!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to Fightdirecto)
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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 7:01:33 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline

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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 7:14:29 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure he'd be a least a little horrified by
St Patricks day celebrations.
I think some people think if they think
about it at all that it's his birthday
or something when it's the day he was
traditionally believed to have been
killed/martyred.
But, eh, who am I to talk? I live St
Patricks Day debauchery. The only
parades that rival St Patricks are Mardi
Gras and Gay Pride parades in terms
of sheer pleasure.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud




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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 7:21:29 PM   
joshspet1980


Posts: 63
Joined: 3/12/2012
From: Texas originally but live in Washington
Status: offline 		ROFLMAO!!! Great!

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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 7:30:28 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
Being the decendant of Irish immigrants (the first of which came to Plymouth, Massachusetts in 1621), I thought I'd share these with my Collarme P&R cyber-friends:

I thought the Plymouth Colony was made up of English settlers (AKA "proddy bastards") fleeing persecution rather than ethnic Irish katliks...

BTW perhaps this might be better in the off-topic thread unless you are trying to make a point about stereotyping...

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to Fightdirecto)
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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 8:59:51 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Early 1600's Jamestown and dropped the O' from our name before arriving.

The irony about the Irish in America is not only the ridiculous stereotyping and prejudice, the resulting poverty that led to such as 'Tammany Hall' corruption, but were by the vanquished in the revolution and the civil war, attributed with being the difference in victory.

Despite that history, but as demonstrated, the Irish have been forever among the most fervently patriotic of Americans. I'll be wearing green tomorrow that I designed online with my name on it.

(in reply to Anaxagoras)
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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 9:24:31 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		irish yoga
and catlicks

Irish and scottish accents are so cool...

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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 9:50:10 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Early 1600's Jamestown and dropped the O' from our name before arriving.

O'Rogers is a new one on me...

quote:


The irony about the Irish in America is not only the ridiculous stereotyping and prejudice, the resulting poverty that led to such as 'Tammany Hall' corruption, but were by the vanquished in the revolution and the civil war, attributed with being the difference in victory.

Despite that history, but as demonstrated, the Irish have been forever among the most fervently patriotic of Americans. I'll be wearing green tomorrow that I designed online with my name on it.

Would I be wrong in saying that the moral lesson about the Irish in America is that you give a good thumping to those that have issues with you until they come around or maybe I'm simplifying the history of the Irish there just a tad?

BTW started a wee topic related thread here: http://www.collarchat.com/m_4063607/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4063607

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 3/16/2012 9:54:46 PM >

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 9:56:10 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
Being the decendant of Irish immigrants (the first of which came to Plymouth, Massachusetts in 1621), I thought I'd share these with my Collarme P&R cyber-friends:

I thought the Plymouth Colony was made up of English settlers (AKA "proddy bastards") fleeing persecution rather than ethnic Irish katliks...



His name was Roger Chandler, originally from Moone, County Kildare, Ireland. He apprenticed to a merchant from Dublin and encountered the Pilgrim community in Holland while on a trading trip. He converted to Seperatism and married one of the Pilgrim women, Elizabeth Chilton (her cousin, Mary Chilton, was one of the passengers on the Mayflower in 1620). Roger and Elizabeth came over on the Fortune in 1621. Their oldest son, Roger Chandler Jr. moved to Concord, Massachusetts in 1640 and his decendant, Jonathan Chandler, was a member of the Minutemen Company of Concord and fought the British on April 19, 1775. He later fought at the Battle of Bennington and moved to Vermont after the Revolutionary War on a veteran's landgrant.

Oddly enough, the first of my Scots ancestors to come to America, a Archibald Matthews, also ended up in Massachusetts. He was taken prisoner by Cromwell's English at the Battle of Inverkeithing in 1651 and sold as a slave to a farmer in Sudbury, Massachusetts. He was given his freedom in exchange for fighting the Indians in the King Philip's War in 1675. His decendants fled to Connecticut after converting to Quakerism (the penalty in Massachusetts for being a Quaker, at that time, was death by hanging).

In 1987, I was the first of my family to return to live in Massachusetts. Luckily, I have family members who have a great interest in history and geneology, so we have pretty accurate records.

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to Anaxagoras)
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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/16/2012 10:14:40 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
His name was Roger Chandler, originally from Moone, County Kildare, Ireland. He apprenticed to a merchant from Dublin and encountered the Pilgrim community in Holland while on a trading trip. He converted to Seperatism and married one of the Pilgrim women, Elizabeth Chilton (her cousin, Mary Chilton, was one of the passengers on the Mayflower in 1620). Roger and Elizabeth came over on the Fortune in 1621.

Interesting family history. Thanks for sharing.

Judging by the area (Kildare) and the name Chandler (French origin but often an English surname as far as I know), your Irish ancestors would have possibly been recent generation Anglo-Irish protestants, if you were able to trace your geneology before Roger.

It's interesting that the pilgrims identified as being English to such an extent that they left a fairly tolerant place like Holland in case it diluted their identity!

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to Fightdirecto)
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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/17/2012 8:03:52 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Although Holland was tolerant, it was not the place to claim your stake. Most people left cause America offered chances to make a decent living.

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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/17/2012 9:19:54 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
His name was Roger Chandler, originally from Moone, County Kildare, Ireland. He apprenticed to a merchant from Dublin and encountered the Pilgrim community in Holland while on a trading trip. He converted to Seperatism and married one of the Pilgrim women, Elizabeth Chilton (her cousin, Mary Chilton, was one of the passengers on the Mayflower in 1620). Roger and Elizabeth came over on the Fortune in 1621.

Interesting family history. Thanks for sharing.

Judging by the area (Kildare) and the name Chandler (French origin but often an English surname as far as I know), your Irish ancestors would have possibly been recent generation Anglo-Irish protestants, if you were able to trace your geneology before Roger.

It's interesting that the pilgrims identified as being English to such an extent that they left a fairly tolerant place like Holland in case it diluted their identity!

The Pilgrims were Puritans and particularly stiff necked and unpleasant Puritans at that. They left Holland in part because it was tolerant.

The theocracy they set up in the Bay Colony was so unappealing they had trouble ttracting Puritans from England in later years.

(in reply to Anaxagoras)
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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/17/2012 9:37:35 AM   
Moonhead


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_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/17/2012 12:34:31 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline 		To be sure the auld manual viruses went out of fashion after the British finally learnt how to avert them... and now to be sure we keep up with the times, sure weren't two of the five Anonymous hackers from the Emerald Isle?

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 3/17/2012 12:43:19 PM >

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: St. Patrick's Day - 3/17/2012 12:52:03 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
Although Holland was tolerant, it was not the place to claim your stake. Most people left cause America offered chances to make a decent living.



quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The Pilgrims were Puritans and particularly stiff necked and unpleasant Puritans at that. They left Holland in part because it was tolerant.



Seems that there were a number of reasons, including the above:

quote:

Their leadership came from the religious congregations of Brownist English Dissenters who had fled the volatile political environment in the East Midlands of England for the relative calm and tolerance of Holland in the Netherlands. Concerned with losing their cultural identity, the group later arranged with English investors to establish a new colony in North America. [...]

Bradford noted that the congregation was aging, compounding the difficulties some had in supporting themselves. Some, having spent through their savings, gave up and returned to England. It was feared that more would follow and that the congregation would become unsustainable. The employment issues made it unattractive for others to come to Leiden, and younger members had begun leaving to find employment and adventure elsewhere. Also compelling was the possibility of missionary work, an opportunity that rarely arose in a Protestant stronghold.[18]

Reasons for departure are suggested by Bradford, when he notes the "discouragements" of the hard life they had in the Netherlands, and the hope of attracting others by finding "a better, and easier place of living"; the "children" of the group being "drawn away by evil examples into extravagance and dangerous courses"; the "great hope, for the propagating and advancing the gospell of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world."[18]

Edward Winslow's list was similar. In addition to the economic worries and missionary possibilities, he stressed that it was important for the people to retain their English identity, culture and language.






_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to MrBukani)
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