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Arturas -> RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? (3/19/2012 12:50:34 AM)
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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
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I fully understand how you can pull a verse or two out of the Bible and then easily deplict it how you have well done. However, it is one of many verses on the subject of making war in ancient times against a ruthless enemy. The Lord God is teaching a people, a whole nation who once were slaves for hundreds of years, how to deal with ruthless enemies they will encounter. When at war in ancient times this is how you must treat the enemy. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Is the Bible the Word of God according to your beliefs? Or is it a cute historical document of limited relevance?
The relevant quote encourages the Jews to attack their neighbours, sack their cities kill the menfolk and rape the women. It is one of a number of similar verses to be found in the Bible. If this is the word of God, surely it is eternal, not some fashionable sentiment tailored for the Bronze Age.,
Alternatively if the Old Testament is is superseded by the New, then why is so much affirmation granted to Deuteronomy's remarks about sexual behaviour? Why is the Bible right one minute and to be ignored the next? Who decides these things? Where does God give them the right to make such decisions? Is the right to cherry pick granted to believers in the Bible? Chapter and verse please? And if believers don't have the right to cherry pick the word of God, isn't all that selective interpretation tantamount to blasphemy according to your belief system?
Quite clearly, believers are seeking to establish for themselves a right to dismiss any part of the Bible that they may choose or prefer not to defend today, while retaining those parts that happen to suit their personal belief system, neuroses or phobias (or suppressed lusts and desires). So we are advised to dismiss the bits of the OT relating to rape or slavery (because they are under any circumstances indefensible) but we retain those sections that relate to say, homosexuality, because that suits a given believer's personal phobias and neuroses (or suppressed lusts and desires).
You are free to find such an approach intellectually and spiritually persuasive. Please don't assume that I am persuaded by such obvious intellectual gymnastics (to use as gracious a term as I can find for it). To me, it is transparent rationalisaton and classical cognitive dissonance.
If some parts of the OT no longer apply because they are time and place specific as per your argument, then they are irrelevant. Surely by precisely the same logic, the entire OT is irrelevant. You can't have it both ways.
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There are similar passenges in the Koran. They address a specific time and situation. What do you say to that?
Precisely the same as I say to such passages in the Bible. Why on earth would I regard them any differently?
Who am I, how could I be worthy enough to defend the Word of the Most High God in either book and when does God need me to defend Him? Such is not my place. I can however teach you what you do not know.
First, all of the Bible has relevance.
Second, the section you refer to is one of history and one of Laws given the Jews right before they took possession of the Promised land. The promised land were held and defended by "evil", enemies of the Lord and of the Jews. One treats "Evil" harshly if it does not surrender to "Good" and serve the Lord. This is the verse and the section you focused in on.
So, the lesson here is not to rape your enemy, and I don't see the phrase "rape thine enemy" btw, it is instead part of the larger lesson of how a people journey from captivity (as one does in their life), disobeyed their Lord (as one does in their life) and wandered in the wilderness until all their disobedience dies out and then when they learned obedience to the Word, they were led finally to the Promised Land (all as one does in their life).
All of these lessons, all this history, parallels your journey and mine and all others who find themselves in a darkness of captivity to something that rules their life, they wander in a great wilderness of unhappiness (divorce, drug addition, addition to CM forums, whatever) and then after hitting rock bottom they are finally obedient and they are led into a life promised you if you only listen to your Lord, thy God. You see? One must understand these stories were not only to be historical but to teach you what happens in your life and will happen in your life, as God used an entire nation , even more than one entire nation and even previously unknown individuals, to serve a world in lesson and in leadership.
The History of the Jews and the lessons shown in that history is not superceeded but built on by the New Testament. Indeed, in the Old one can see God leaving pointers to He who would appear in the New as the Christ. Look closely and you will see He appear in the Old and then watch the lessons evolve and also see the "signposts" promising God in the form of Man, who taught us that God is not just a God who punishes but who also loves his Children and teaches us that at this point in the lives of the Jewish nation and at some point in our live we must put anger away and love one another as He loves us.
The Bible is a journey from Our Creation, to Our Wilderness Journey (remember yours?), our being led out of the Wilderness past vanquished enemies (sins) and into a better life content and happy and finally the End which then we find is the Beginning again. Along the way you make mistakes and turn away from good and then fall on your ass and are led back out and fall on your ass even more when you rebel and then are lead back and then you learn lessons and wisdom (the book of Proverbs) and then...well, I won't completely spoil the story of your life especially since you are just getting to that good part.
Finally, you must be receptive to the Word to understand the Word or you will simply see wars, death and even say the Bible encourages the dark deeds of men. Until you ask Him what it is all about and for understanding then you will have none and will forever "wander in the wilderness".
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