resistance

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fullofgrace -> resistance (6/3/2006 10:25:35 PM)
the "it cost the kajira her collar" thread in the gor forums got me thinking about this. i've seen similar topics either here or elsewhere, but i thought i'd bring this up, cause i'm tired and i can't recall seeing anything on it recently. in the thread, jezabel mentioned that her recollaring experience involved resistance and breaking her of her willfulness. i've heard others mention this vaguely, both in the gorean sense and not. my question is...resistance, to me, seems contrary to the nature of a submissive or slave. resistance in play can be fun, and i'm not talking about that, nor am i talking about emotional or physical things beyond the slave or sub's control - for example, there are certain kinds of play that i naturally resist because they're triggers for my flashbacks, and sometimes (though this happened with my previous dominant, not the man i am collared to now) a very high degree of pain that i'm not used to dealing with will cause me to resist instinctively at first. i have also been known to do things without proper forethought and consideration. but actual active resistance and willfulness? i don't understand how that fits into the personality and actions of someone whose nature is supposed to be to serve. i'm not criticizing, but i am confused...could anyone who has experience being actively resistant or willful and is a submissive/slave enlighten me? others' thoughts are welcome as well :)

BitaTruble -> RE: resistance (6/3/2006 10:41:13 PM)
Fullofgrace, are you talking about resistance that's outside the spirit of just plain S/m fun/force? Himself and I enjoy resistance play, but I'm not willfull, so maybe I'm misreading your question? Guess I'm confused as well. ::chuckles::

fullofgrace -> RE: resistance (6/3/2006 10:44:19 PM)
that's exactly what i'm talking about...resistance for play i can understand, but it's willfulness and deliberate resistance outside of play i don't get :)

BitaTruble -> RE: resistance (6/3/2006 10:52:01 PM)
Ok.. I'll wait for answers to that one with ya then. ::chuckles:: Celeste

tangldupinblue -> RE: resistance (6/3/2006 10:52:48 PM)
grace, i agree with you i dont understand it either...when i was trained, it was with control in mind, not theirs mind you but my own, the self conrtol it takes to fight the urge to resist, the control it takes to keep your voice silent when told to even though it hurts so bad. blue

babysburnin -> RE: resistance (6/4/2006 1:32:34 AM)
I suppose I'm the worst submissive ever because I choose to submit. I will never surrender my soul to another ... just not going to happen. If our souls connect, as I feel with my Dom now, then the world is filled with rainbows and crops.

BitaTruble -> RE: resistance (6/4/2006 1:42:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: babysburnin I suppose I'm the worst submissive ever because I choose to submit. I will never surrender my soul to another ... just not going to happen. If our souls connect, as I feel with my Dom now, then the world is filled with rainbows and crops. I don't get it. Why does choosing to submit make you a bad submissive? If you want to submit and you choose to do so, it doesn't sound like you're willful, you're probably doing as your dominant requires, you sound very happy and since he keeps you, I'd surmise he's probably pretty happy with you as well. Maybe it's me.. but I'd call that good not bad. My soul was also never up for grabs. That's between me and the Deity of my choice.. Himself owns my heart, my mind, my body but my soul is my own and can't be taken from me by any mortal. Celeste

fullofgrace -> RE: resistance (6/4/2006 6:10:10 AM)
i also choose to submit. being submissive is in my nature, yes, but i choose specifically to submit to one person. i don't think that makes anyone a bad submissive, and in no way was i trying to imply that in my original post. by definition, if you're choosing to submit, then usually you're not resisting ;)

CrappyDom -> RE: resistance (6/4/2006 8:09:15 AM)
Grace, Reading the gor threads will rot your brain. They talk about all sorts of BS and then thump their chest about how everyone else just play acts being barbarian sword wielding warriors from another planet. The resistance is important because it makes the idiots feel more masterly cause they subdued a 250 pound fat chick with the picture of a faerie on her profile. It is also needed by the female players because their part in this obscene fantasy is that their MASTER is a big bad barbarian/gentleman/MASTER who is strong enough to fight off hoards of level 9 orcs or some other fantasy bullshit. Oh, and if anyone can't tell, I despise gor and yes I do realize that Ironbear and a few others truly seem like great folk, but hell, there are Republicans I like and respect too!

gardenbluebird -> RE: resistance (6/4/2006 8:36:15 AM)
i haven't read the thread in question; however, i do frequently have an edge of resistance in my play. i have been known to turn the tables on a weak Dom. i'm a very strong woman and few can control me. When that control is achieved there is absoluely no doubt in my mind or my Master's that it has been rightfully earned. That being said, much of the time i happily submit, but it is always known that it is a very spirited woman who is submitting. My Master cherishes and channels my strength. Neither one of us would have it any other way.

gardenbluebird -> RE: resistance (6/4/2006 8:39:06 AM)
BTW - my statements in no way imply that those who submit and control their resistance are not strong. It is simply a different way of displaying strength and character.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: resistance (6/4/2006 9:07:50 AM)
Specially newbies are not secure in who they are or what they want yet- so they resist, they contradict, they scramble. It's just part of the process. Heck even dominants resist who they are sometimes. Unfortunately, some only feel comfort when resisting, they feel good knowing someone will be there to put them back in their place. They become addicted to it. Then it becomes a problem of NOT settling down ever.

MichaelHunter -> RE: resistance (6/4/2006 11:08:02 PM)
Well, like I've said before, I'm young so feel free to call me too young to really have a firm grasp. Reisiatance may be caused by many factors: 1- They aren't really submissive. 2- They are afraid of what may come of it. 3- They confuse submissive and slave, and therefore combat what they see as an adverse change. 4- They are addicited to the rebuttal. 5- They confuse play with real life.

trippingdaisy -> RE: resistance (6/5/2006 12:14:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MichaelHunter Well, like I've said before, I'm young so feel free to call me too young to really have a firm grasp. Reisiatance may be caused by many factors: 1- They aren't really submissive. 2- They are afraid of what may come of it. 3- They confuse submissive and slave, and therefore combat what they see as an adverse change. 4- They are addicited to the rebuttal. 5- They confuse play with real life. That's actually a pretty accurate reasoning right there. It all sounds rather negative, but it's still pretty accurate. i never really have resisted much, even when i was being trained for the first time. It seemed very, very right, and i had a little mantra in my head that i'd repeat to myself, whenever i'd get antsy and feel a bout of mouthiness coming on. Hell, i was 17. That happened a lot. :D But i made my way through it, and i was rewarded for my patience and obedience. What i've found in my experience, talking with new subs, is that many of them aren't really 'submissive'. They dislike giving over that power, that control, they think they want to choose to submit, but in reality, they just want a bit of kink. They may be masochistic, but that isn't always synonymous with submissive. i dunno. i agree that resistance play can be very hot, and very fun, but there's a difference between play, and if i were to argue, pout, resist, fight whenever Master gave me a command.

Lashra -> RE: resistance (6/5/2006 5:20:19 AM)
I think its because contrary to the popular myth within the Gorean culture that women are naturally submissive due to the natural order. We women are NOT all naturally submissive so that bit of information is very incorrect. I don't know the people involved in that thread as I try to stay away from gor as much as possible, but perhaps the slave had a good reason for not feeling she needed to be submissive in this particular situation. Perhaps something was going on that just didnt set well with her. Being a slave/sub doesn't mean you have to agree 100% of the time with your Master example: If he tells you to cut out your own tongue, it maybe in your best interest to disobey cuz it sounds like Master is having a really bad day. I really don't understand why some people believe that a slave should be a robot and just do whatever a Master tells him/her too and why its thought that they are not to think for themselves at all? Maybe its just my misconception of the M/s relationship, but I so often hear I'd do anything Master told me to do ANYTHING. To me that absolute could be very dangerous. ~Lashra

MLskajira -> RE: resistance (6/5/2006 6:56:27 AM)
ditto trippingdaisy, this girl agrees with everything you said.

Mercnbeth -> RE: resistance (6/5/2006 8:22:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fullofgrace ...my question is...resistance, to me, seems contrary to the nature of a submissive or slave... grace, by chance have you perused the "Challenges of Submitting" thread? Clearly, there are many who identify as sub or slave who are not succumbing to their "nature", but struggling with it, or trying to change themselves so that it becomes second nature through some sort of training. also, there are those that play the role for a set period of time and it has nothing to do with their nature---just something they enjoy from time to time.

missturbation -> RE: resistance (6/5/2006 9:33:00 AM)
Ok I am one of these subs u talk about that is willful and finds it hard to submit. Whilst i agree with most of what has been said to a certain point i have my own personal theory which i hope will give you another way to look at this thread. I am definately a submissive, it took me a long time to understand this about myself (almost 32 years) but i feel comfortable in my skin now. I have had 3 Masters and two of these relationships worked in no shape or form due to unwillingness to give total submission. I resisted and fought against it and finally was released. Why did this happen? I think because they were not the right Master for me to submit to. I do need very firm and strict control and give me an inch and i will take a mile. I truly believe that when i find the 'One' i will give my submission easily and without resistance.

collaredlilone -> RE: resistance (6/5/2006 9:53:29 AM)
girl has known this from experience with her Master. i am 24-7 rl slave fully to serve. no resistance should and is not really something that is in a slave's trate or personality or at least should be. but even as this girl is slave... naturally you will hesitate to some extent. it is the training of the Master and the willingness to serve of the slave to change this. this should be a goal for the true submissive slave. girl

fullofgrace -> RE: resistance (6/5/2006 10:20:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: Fullofgrace ...my question is...resistance, to me, seems contrary to the nature of a submissive or slave... grace, by chance have you perused the "Challenges of Submitting" thread? Clearly, there are many who identify as sub or slave who are not succumbing to their "nature", but struggling with it, or trying to change themselves so that it becomes second nature through some sort of training. also, there are those that play the role for a set period of time and it has nothing to do with their nature---just something they enjoy from time to time. i have...i should probably make another attempt at clarifying...i forgot to mention this originally, but i am specifically speaking about lifestyle slaves and submissives here, and those who are willful to be willful, not those who are trying NOT to be willful (as i mentioned in my first post). perhaps what i'm talking about doesn't even exist, and all willful or resistant slaves and subs fall into the categories already mentioned, and i'm just misunderstanding things. at any rate, thank you all for your responses :)

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