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Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the bac... - 3/26/2012 5:27:09 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		If George Zimmerman felt in danger of Great Bodily Harm or Death from having his head slammed into the sidewalk, and had to kill Martin in self-defense, why was he found standing over Trayvon Martin's body IN SOMEONE'S BACKYARD, and not on the sidewalk where the attack supposedly occurred.

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/26/2012 5:53:50 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		Who, other than you, said Martin attacked Zimmerman on the sidewalk next to the street?

You have a very unhealthy obsession with this case, give it a rest already.

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(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/26/2012 6:21:20 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Who, other than you, said Martin attacked Zimmerman on the sidewalk next to the street?



You mean aside from Zimmerman, claiming that Martin slammed his head into the sidewalk, so he had to shoot him?

Zimmerman's attorney?

Or are you saying the sidewalk wasn't next to the street? Where do YOU put sidewalks, because 'next to the street', is pretty much the standard tool in the Civic Designer's toolbox...

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/26/2012 6:22:15 PM >

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/26/2012 9:04:57 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Who, other than you, said Martin attacked Zimmerman on the sidewalk next to the street?



You mean aside from Zimmerman, claiming that Martin slammed his head into the sidewalk, so he had to shoot him?

Zimmerman's attorney?

Or are you saying the sidewalk wasn't next to the street? Where do YOU put sidewalks, because 'next to the street', is pretty much the standard tool in the Civic Designer's toolbox...


Gee, 90% of the backyards I've been in had sidewalks, there are sidewalks between buildings, in parks, I could go on and on where sidewalks are, that aren't adjacent to streets... Got a link to Zimmerman's lawyer saying he was attacked next to the street, or is it your faulty interpretation of what he really said?

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/26/2012 10:27:56 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You mean aside from Zimmerman, claiming that Martin slammed his head into the sidewalk...

Or are you saying the sidewalk wasn't next to the street? Where do YOU put sidewalks, because 'next to the street', is pretty much the standard tool in the Civic Designer's toolbox...

There are paved walks that run between the backs of the rows of townhomes.

Google is your friend.

K.

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 3:55:08 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		But now we have TWO facts which discredit Zimmerman's claim.

He was attacked walking back to his truck, PARKED ON THE STREET, and while walking ON THE SIDEWALK claims to have been attacked. BUT THAT'S NOT WHERE HE MURDERED MARTIN. If you look at google maps, there's no direct path which goes behind the houses.

YOU DID LOOK AT GOOGLE MAPS, RIGHT?

Then there's the lack of any injuries consistent with Great Bodily Harm or Death.

So, now we have TWO DOCUMENTED FACTS showing Zimmerman's story to be false.

We can discard Zimmerman's claims, and we're back to a plain old Manslaughter/Murder arrest.

AND SINCE IN OUR SYSTEM, IT IS THE **JURY** WHICH DECIDES FACT, ZIMMERMAN CAN TRY TO SELL IT TO THEM.

That's how American Justice works.


Kill Someone? Explain it to the Judge.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/27/2012 3:56:17 AM >

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 6:45:31 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
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Status: offline 		I've got to say, I'm not a fan of Floridas chase children down and shoot them law.

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 7:02:23 AM   
sappatoti


Posts: 14844
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: the edge of darkness...
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
...
He was attacked walking back to his truck, PARKED ON THE STREET, and while walking ON THE SIDEWALK claims to have been attacked. BUT THAT'S NOT WHERE HE MURDERED MARTIN. If you look at google maps, there's no direct path which goes behind the houses.

YOU DID LOOK AT GOOGLE MAPS, RIGHT?
...

Fargle, it's good to return to see you're still adding interesting commentary to most everything. Keep 'em hoppin'.

With regards to the sidewalk, there is indeed a concrete sidewalk that runs behind the buildings of the complex, cutting lengthwise through what is the coomon area "back yards." I don't need to refer to Google's or anyone else's maps, for the local TV news stations have provided ad naseum coverage of the shooting scene. This would be the sidewalk that both the victim and the shooter would have both used when they fatefully met. I cannot speak to where the shooter's vehicle was located but if it was parked in the front of the building, as most apartment/townhouse/condo complexes seem to be designed around here, the shooter would have been using this sidewalk to pursue the victim then again use it to return to his vehicle.

Google maps are only about 50/50 correct when it comes to photos of this Central FL area; so bad in my locale the local police, sheriff, and fire services actually go out and take tours of the streets to either correct Google's mapping and addressing mistakes or to fill in the voids in Google's product.

edited to fix typos and tweak grammar

< Message edited by sappatoti -- 3/27/2012 7:53:12 AM >

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 7:53:05 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Which again -- these are all issues which Zimmerman can raise to the Judge since the requirements for charging under Florida's manslaughter law are uncontested.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to sappatoti)
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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 7:58:29 AM   
sappatoti


Posts: 14844
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: the edge of darkness...
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

... since the requirements for charging under Florida's manslaughter law are uncontested.


Please clarify which law you are referencing. There is manslaughter, which is criminal, and there is the colloquially coined "stand your ground" law which the shooter is attempting to use in his defense. In any event, I'm not seeing how the sidewalk itself will be a factor in meeting the requirements for either of those laws.

_____________________________

Never mind the man on the edge of the darkness... he means no harm...

"Community, Identity, Stability." ~ A Brave New World, Aldous Huxley, 1932

If you don't like my attitude, QUIT TALKING TO ME!

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 8:00:33 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		If I answer you, do you promise this will be the last thread you start on the subject?  Can't you address all of your questions on the same string?

If I ever have to use deadly force on a man, I'm going to make sure he is DEAD.  I don't care if I have to cross a sidewalk, a backyard, or a city.

ETA - And when I do, I'll take any punishment that the law of the land sees fit to give Me.


< Message edited by LadyPact -- 3/27/2012 8:01:48 AM >

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 8:19:38 AM   
Rule


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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 10:44:37 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I've got to say, I'm not a fan of Floridas chase children down and shoot them law.



You must be privy to some facts all the rest of us don't have.

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 3/27/2012 10:45:09 AM >

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 12:04:09 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		OOps........the above post in reference to post #7 and most of Fargles.

Edited to add: and most of Fargles posts in the other threads too.

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 3/27/2012 12:05:48 PM >

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 12:10:22 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Good job you're showing enough class not to dip your own snout in the trough then, isn't it?

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 12:22:04 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Good job you're showing enough class not to dip your own snout in the trough then, isn't it?



Of course not..........yet. I'll wait for all the facts to come out. All I'm getting from some here is a lot of opinions, speculation, BS, and some far out interpretations of stand your ground and other erroneous points on Florida firearms laws.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 12:31:30 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Door's over there, dear. If opinions, speculation and BS aren't good enough, you're probably in the wrong forum.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to lovmuffin)
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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 1:26:02 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Door's over there, dear. If opinions, speculation and BS aren't good enough, you're probably in the wrong forum.



Opinions are ok unless ones opinion is speculation of the facts that they don't really know.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 1:42:29 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Good job you're showing enough class not to dip your own snout in the trough then, isn't it?



Of course not..........yet. I'll wait for all the facts to come out. All I'm getting from some here is a lot of opinions, speculation, BS, and some far out interpretations of stand your ground and other erroneous points on Florida firearms laws.

Just for my own edification but what exactly did you come here to get,if not opinions,speculation interpretations and yes even some bullshit ?

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RE: Attacked on sidewalk, shoots in self defense in the... - 3/27/2012 2:26:11 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sappatoti


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

... since the requirements for charging under Florida's manslaughter law are uncontested.


Please clarify which law you are referencing. There is manslaughter, which is criminal, and there is the colloquially coined "stand your ground" law which the shooter is attempting to use in his defense. In any event, I'm not seeing how the sidewalk itself will be a factor in meeting the requirements for either of those laws.


Manslaughter. JUST LIKE I SAID.

And the time for a claim under 776.013(3) is at the arraignment on the manslaughter charge.

At that point, Zimmerman needs to PROVE TO A JUDGE that (1) he didn't start the fight (2) that he tried to run away, informed martin of his desire to run away, be prevented from running away and (3) in danger of Great Bodily Harm or Death.

It's all in 776. Make sure you keep in mind that .043 specifically exempts people from protection of 776 in circumstances very much like Zimmerman's.




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to sappatoti)
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