RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict"

RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (Full Version)

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tweakabelle -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (3/31/2012 11:46:23 PM)
It's sadly amusing to hear some Right-wing politicians line up to accuse others of profiting from race baiting politics. These are the very people who in every Western country have incited racial hatred and opposed every measure to combat the evil of racism for generations, the very people whose careers are so often based on minority abuse. Whatever the ins and outs of the Martin tragedy, this is as true of the USA as it is of anywhere in the West. Does any seriously believe that, had Zimmerman been black and Martin white, the black man would have been released without charge that night? Does anyone seriously dispute that legislation such as SYG is there to reassure and support the affluent (ie white) sections of the community who feel under siege? For the Right to claim that anyone who points out the obvious is playing the race card for expedient reasons is the height of hypocrisy

FatDomDaddy -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (3/31/2012 11:53:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle If Zimmerman wasn't hunting Martin because of his race, how come he was unable to articulate EVIDENCE OF ANY CRIME attributable to Martin of during his call to 9-1-1? [8\|] No one "articulates evidence" in a 911 call, not even cops. Cops pull people over due to probabable cause, not because they already have evidence of a crime. It's really sad that you don't know this. Well... to be fair and clear, probable cause is the standard for which a police officer or other sworn law enforcement agent has to meet in order to arrest a person, conduct a legal search or request a warrant. An agent or an officer of the law does not need probable cause to investigate, question or even for short periods of time detain a person(s). For that they only need to meet, reasonable or individual grounds and/or reason or individual suspicion.

Owner59 -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (3/31/2012 11:57:28 PM)
So where is George`s badge? No jokes about "stinking badges"......[;)] Do you play pretend cop too?

Kirata -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (3/31/2012 11:59:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Does any seriously believe that, had Zimmerman been black and Martin white, the black man would have been released without charge that night? Does anyone seriously dispute that legislation such as SYG is there to reassure and support the affluent (ie white) sections of the community who feel under siege? Probably not to the first question. Yes to the second. However, neither of those things has anything to do with a bunch of race-baiters projecting their own racism onto Zimmerman. We know that racism exists here, on both sides. The last thing we need is people manufacturing more of it. K.

DarqueMirror -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 12:03:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy Well... just to be clear, probable case is the standard for which a police officer or other sworn agent has to meet in order to arrest a person, conduct a legal search or request a warrant. An agent or an officer of the law does not need probable cause to investigate, question or even for short periods of time to detain a person. For that they only need to meet, reasonable or individual grounds and/or reason or individual suspicion. True, but the cop does not, over his radio, outline every shred of evidence in a crime in order to initiate a traffic stop. He simply says "pulling one over for driving erratically." Or "show me in a traffic stop with a suspicus vehicle." The point being, cops stop "suspicious people" every day. No one asks them to say why the person looks suspicious until they do or o not find evidence and proceed with the rest of the case/incident. I've seen countless episodes of "Cops" where they go through an entire stop, search, arrest, etc. Then you see them explaining their version of vents to their supervisor. "I observed the individual acting suspiciously, and proceeded to initiate a stop. The suspect then tried to flee and...etc. etc."

DarqueMirror -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 12:05:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Probably not to the first question. Yes to the second. However, neither of those things has anything to do with a bunch of race-baiters projecting their own racism onto Zimmerman. We know that racism exists here, on both sides. The last thing we need is people manufacturing more of it. Unfortunately it's too late for that.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 12:05:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 So where is George`s badge? No jokes about "stinking badges"......[;)] Do you play pretend cop too? George Zimmerman was neither an agent nor an officer of the law. I am not delusional, had Zimmerman been black, he'd likely have been arrested, regardless of the race of Trayvon Martin. But to try and claim that there is some kind of vigilante pogrom om the United States aimed at young black men by white people is idiotic. The number one killers of young black men are other young black men.

DarqueMirror -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 12:10:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy George Zimmerman was neither an agent nor an officer of the law. I am not delusional, had Zimmerman been black, he'd likely have been arrested, regardless of the race of Trayvon Martin. But to try and claim that there is some kind of vigilante pogrom om the United States aimed at young black men by white people is idiotic. The number one killers of young black men are other young black men. Actually, if Zimmerman had been black, the cops would have no witnesses. Because, you know, "snitches get stitches" and all that. [8\|]

Owner59 -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 12:21:01 AM)
"and all that." Yeah....all blacks are hoods....thanks for reminding us of the republican/Martin tragedy talking points and why cons have no business whining about racism/race baiting. To Fat Dom Daddy........ Super....I`ve been waiting for a conservative honest enough and brave enough to take on the unique challenges that face the black community..... Please FDD......tell us what it is about black Americans,what flaw in THEIR makeup is it that explains why there is a hugely disproportionate number of black Americans who`re in jail,living in poverty or homeless,etc.? I`ve always said that racism is something black Americans suffer.....not created. Please tell us how racism,discrimination and unequal protection under the law and it`s affects are the fault of black Americans? Thank you in advance.

Kirata -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 12:31:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy The number one killers of young black men are other young black men. It also bears note that the number one killers of whites are other whites. Excluding the rare but spectacular exceptions, most murders are one-on-one crimes. There's the dead guy and the person who killed him. Taking the latest available numbers for single-victim/single-offender murder, fully 83% of the whites who were killed were murdered by other whites. The figure is 90% for blacks (92% was an error). Whites are not running around afraid of being killed by evil black men, and blacks have even less reason to be afraid of being killed by a white person. Reference: FBI Expanded Homicide Data K.

tweakabelle -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 12:47:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Does any seriously believe that, had Zimmerman been black and Martin white, the black man would have been released without charge that night? Does anyone seriously dispute that legislation such as SYG is there to reassure and support the affluent (ie white) sections of the community who feel under siege? Probably not to the first question. Yes to the second. However, neither of those things has anything to do with a bunch of race-baiters projecting their own racism onto Zimmerman. We know that racism exists here, on both sides. The last thing we need is people manufacturing more of it. K. Implicit in the agreement that, had the colour/races been reversed as per the first question, the outcome would have been different, is an acknowledgement that racism was already influencing events at this stage. Further weight is given to this perspective by the subsequent 'standing aside' of the police officer in charge of the case - in itself another implicit admission of the inadequacy of the manner in which the local police dealt with the matter. It does seem reasonable to suggest that, had Zimmerman been charged with some offence at this point, a great deal of the heat would have been taken out of this issue. All of which leaves me unsure how people can be alleged to be "manufacturing" racism if it was already inherent in the situation, courtesy of the local police.

Kirata -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 1:01:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata However, neither of those things has anything to do with a bunch of race-baiters projecting their own racism onto Zimmerman. We know that racism exists here... The last thing we need is people manufacturing more of it. which leaves me unsure how people can be alleged to be "manufacturing" racism if it was already inherent in the situation, courtesy of the local police. Not manufacturing racism. Manufacturing more of it. K.

DarqueMirror -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 2:25:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Yeah....all blacks are hoods.... Well, that's a strong opinion to have, but if that's the way you feel...

tweakabelle -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 4:20:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata However, neither of those things has anything to do with a bunch of race-baiters projecting their own racism onto Zimmerman. We know that racism exists here... The last thing we need is people manufacturing more of it. which leaves me unsure how people can be alleged to be "manufacturing" racism if it was already inherent in the situation, courtesy of the local police. Not manufacturing racism. Manufacturing more of it. K. It makes a lot more sense to me to focus energies on the cause of the problem than the consequences. Dealing with institutionalised racism properly (invariably opposed by the Right) would mean preventing the issue manifesting itself in the first place. That way there's no need to worry about people adding to the problem afterwards. So I'd be directing my anger towards the police and possibly the SYG laws too. It's odd to me that people like Buchanan with such loudly proclaimed interests in defending 'civil liberties' decline to acknowledge the dangers involved when people are authorised to use deadly force on the basis of beliefs and suspicions. Such legal defences seem to me to go a long way to creating problems such as this one - they are so wide open to abuse and subjective interpretation, as we may well be seeing in this case.

farglebargle -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 4:39:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy Zimmerman wasn't "hunting" anyone This is race bating of the worst sorts. hunt: To chase down prey; To try to find something; To search Did Zimmerman not chase down Martin? Did Zimmerman not try to find Martin? Did Zimmerman not search for Martin? George Zimmerman hunted down Trayvon Martin. Q.E.D.

farglebargle -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 4:43:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle If Zimmerman wasn't hunting Martin because of his race, how come he was unable to articulate EVIDENCE OF ANY CRIME attributable to Martin of during his call to 9-1-1? [8\|] No one "articulates evidence" in a 911 call, not even cops. Cops pull people over due to probabable cause, not because they already have evidence of a crime. It's really sad that you don't know this. You do realize that the Probable Cause standard is based on "Articulable Facts", right? That the phrase "Probable Cause" is derived from "Evidence to support the charge that the accused PROBABLY CAUSED the offense alleged" Criminal Justice 101, dude. Did you skip and pull tubes that day or something?

Kirata -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 4:59:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It's odd to me that people like Buchanan with such loudly proclaimed interests in defending 'civil liberties' decline to acknowledge the dangers involved when people are authorised to use deadly force on the basis of beliefs and suspicions. Such legal defences seem to me to go a long way to creating problems such as this one - they are so wide open to abuse and subjective interpretation, as we may well be seeing in this case. You're speaking as an anti-gun nut, of course. [:D] Literally everything we think we know is based on our unavoidably subjective interpretations of the available data. K.

truckinslave -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 6:59:43 AM)
quote: The number one killers of young black men are other young black men. A little wordy. To wit: The number one killers are young black men.

DomKen -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 7:36:11 AM)
Funny how the faux outrage that I called Buchanan a bigot who was trying to justify Zimmerman's actions evaporated once I presented what the bigot actually wrote. Did FDD and the other cons simply hope no one would notice the bigot defending Zimmerman? Or was it the hope that only the cons would read the bigots writing?

Moonhead -> RE: "the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict" (4/1/2012 7:44:53 AM)
Probably more the (seemingly endemic) assumption that it doesn't matter what non cons think.

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