RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (Full Version)

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Aylee -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 7:40:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

Those aren't the only two possibilities, given Zimmerman's statement and his injuries as mentioned in the police report.


I think we can just disregard Zimmerman's statements given then numerous inconsistencies with established facts, and concentrate on the uncontested facts, which are sufficient for charging manslaughter, specifically 1) Trayvon Martin is dead and 2) George Zimmerman killed him, either through act or negligence.

Anything else he has to say, he can say to a judge in his Motion to Dismiss.

The injuries which clearly fail to sustain his claim of fearing Great Bodily Harm or Death. They were so trivial, the EMTs didn't even sent him to the ER for a cat scan or stitches or x-rays or anything. And given today's liability landscape, there's NO WAY the EMTs wouldn't send him to the ER as a precaution with even the slightest indication.

So, anything we need to consider, needs to consider the negligible injuries sustained, and how they don't justify deadly force against an unarmed victim again pointing us toward "Charge, and let a Judge sort this out while everyone is under oath"



"He didn't beat me up enough before I killed him." What is wrong with this picture?



farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 7:44:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daog

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Whereas my father was giving me a warning.

None of which alters the fact Zimmerman wasnt being approached prior to Martyn getting shot.


Though we actually have a witness that saw martin on top of zimmerman beating him, before he was shot.



So? That's completely consistent with Trayvon Martin's self defense rights under SYG.

Trayvon Martin had reason to believe he was in danger of death, being chased at night by a stranger is ample reason to fear for your life first, but given that any reasonable and prudent person would have cause to believe that someone chasing them at night without legal authority may be armed, the self-defense claim goes to Trayvon Martin.

Any use of force by Trayvon Martin, being chased by an armed person with no legal authority, Martin's his use of force, including lethal force. is justified under 776.013(3).

Of course, if Zimmerman believes differently, he can explain why to a Judge.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 7:48:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daog

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Whereas my father was giving me a warning.

None of which alters the fact Zimmerman wasnt being approached prior to Martyn getting shot.


Though we actually have a witness that saw martin on top of zimmerman beating him, before he was shot.

You and Farg HAVE to put that in your fantasy scenarios.  There is a real witness.  You and Farg are LYING if you leave that out of the story line.

What you said was false.  And you know it.



We're blaming 'the hoodie' and everything else but some cowboy who watched too many hero flicks and didn't have a life.
I lived in miami for 18 years and it's a nasty damn place especially in the 80's. If someone was approaching you with purpose, your first instinct is to E & E. (Escape and Evade) because that person doesn't mean you well..... period.
As for "the hoodie", hell, I've jogged literally thousands of miles wearing one.
Now, look at this scenario. Zimmerman is out of his car following someone. That person evades him. Zimmerman keeps looking and finds him and confronts him. Had that person been me in my late teens to mid 30's, the cause of Zimmerman's death would have been traumatic cervical dislocation. I base that on the fact that a totally untrained person was able to knock him down. I wouldn't have let him up.
Who claims 'self defense'?
Is it the dead man with a gun or the guy who was trying to get away until he was cornered?



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 7:52:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: daog

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Whereas my father was giving me a warning.

None of which alters the fact Zimmerman wasnt being approached prior to Martyn getting shot.


Though we actually have a witness that saw martin on top of zimmerman beating him, before he was shot.



So? That's completely consistent with Trayvon Martin's self defense rights under SYG.

Trayvon Martin had reason to believe he was in danger of death, being chased at night by a stranger is ample reason to fear for your life first, but given that any reasonable and prudent person would have cause to believe that someone chasing them at night without legal authority may be armed, the self-defense claim goes to Trayvon Martin.

Any use of force by Trayvon Martin, being chased by an armed person with no legal authority, Martin's his use of force, including lethal force. is justified under 776.013(3).

Of course, if Zimmerman believes differently, he can explain why to a Judge.


Ya know what?

The truth ain't out yet.

When it is....you can all bitch and pick a side.



farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 7:54:24 PM)

The only "truth" I give a shit about is that Zimmerman is chargeable under Florida law for manslaughter, which has TWO requirements, both of which are uncontested. At that point, I don't give a shit what anyone says. The proper place to make arguments is before a Judge.




farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:01:49 PM)

quote:

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.


I await Zimmerman's active defense of this claim before a Judge eagerly. Because Zimmerman's story doesn't say, nor do I believe the facts in evidence support that he

0) Acted in Good Faith

AND

1) Withdrew

AND

2a) indicated clearly that he desired to withdraw

AND

2b) terminate the use of force

AND

3) Trayvon Martin continued or resumed the use of force.

AND of course the Judge will first have to buy the "Crazy Negro Snapped And Attacked Whitey For No Reason" hypothesis Zimmerman's entire fairy tale is predicated on.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:09:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daog

Farg, and the girlfriends testimony is that Martin confronted the neighborhood watch guy.

Not the other way around lie you keep telling.

2 weeks ago yall were trumpeting her testimony, untill you realised it backs up Zimmermanns defense.

That's interesting that you just arrived here and you're familiar with what happened 2 weeks ago.

All I would like to ask is which banned personage are you a sock for?



farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:11:38 PM)

How could he confront Zimmerman if Zimmerman wasn't chasing him? And confronting a potentially armed assailant at night is perfectly within Travyon Martin's rights under the SYG provisions of 776.013(3).

Since Trayvon Martin had reasonable grounds to fear for his life from someone carrying a firearm, his right to self-defense is unequivocal.

But let's speculate, and say that Trayvon Martin, after being pursued by an armed stranger at night, turns and says, "What's your fucking problem?"

What does Zimmerman say or do? All he can say is "I want you to wait for the police.", since he has no actual authority.

So, when Trayvon Martin disrespects Zimmerman's non-existent authority, what does Zimmerman do?

Does he excuse himself for bothering Trayvon Martin, and return to minding his own business?

Nope.

He made sure Trayvon Martin wasn't one of those "assholes who always get away", didn't he?




farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:24:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daog

There is no judge here, you are still trying to ignore 776.032

Since you are ignoring the actuall law, you are just blathering.


< Your stupid racist, "Crazy Pot Smoking Negro Snaps and Attacks Whitey Without Provocation" bullshit deleted... >

He need to actively invoke 776.041 BEFORE 776.anything-else matters.




Kirata -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:29:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daog

Now I am not sure if your simply ignorant or intentionally lying about 776.041.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4077742

Draw your own conclusions.

K.



GotSteel -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:30:42 PM)

I got a kick out of the daily show's comments: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-4-2012/racist-time-out



farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:34:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daog

I already did, eyewitness that Travon was holding him down and beating him as he screamed for help (recorded on the 911 call).





And what part of that meets the necessary requirements under 776.041? And of course, there are people willing to testify in court that it's NOT Zimmerman screaming for help. Where are the experts testifying that they ARE Zimmerman's screams? I mean, until it's adjudicated in court, it's all speculation, but hey, after being chased at night, if someone pulls a gun on me, I'd be begging for my life, too..

And of course, that would take us out of manslaughter, perhaps by negligence, and into murder, with a decent case for capital murder being made if they tie the "These assholes always get away" with the holes in Zimmerman's story, and the convenient way he ended the 9-1-1 call which would have recorded his final confrontation with Martin... I think you could sell it to a jury...



GotSteel -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:36:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daog
I already did, eyewitness that Travon was holding him down and beating him as he screamed for help (recorded on the 911 call).


Nope.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57407964-504083/screams-on-911-call-not-george-zimmerman-forensic-voice-experts-say/
The voice heard calling for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was fatally shot was not that of George Zimmerman, two forensic voice identification experts told MSNBC on Sunday.




SoftBonds -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:40:37 PM)

This is not aimed at anyone in particular, but...
Years back, when OJ went to trial, I got into an argument with a woman. Her premise, "OJ was clearly guilty." My premise, "OJ is just about gonna have to be tried in Australia to get an impartial jury."
In other words, my concern was that there was so much media about the whole thing that finding 12 people who hadn't come to a conclusion about his guilt already would be really hard.
I think the same thing is true in this case.
That said, I do think this thread is very appropriate if there is any doubt that Zimmerman will in fact go to trial. If in a situation like that, when the court system is not used to determine guilt or innocence, it then becomes entirely appropriate to try an individual in the court of public opinion (note that this does not apply to OJ since he was in fact tried...)
Kind of a "free speech is the best defense against cover ups." meme.



GotSteel -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:47:40 PM)

What I want to know is why some people are getting so into defending Zimmerman? I mean I can understand the people who having looked at the evidence available to us are convinced that this is a case of a child on the way home from the candy store being chased down and shot getting really angry about this but what about the other side? I can understand pulling out the innocent until proven guilty statement, but why is anyone going beyond that? Why are people emotionally committed to backing Zimmerman to the point of getting themselves banned? I just don't even get the motivation here, seriously wtf is going on?



SoftBonds -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 8:57:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

What I want to know is why some people are getting so into defending Zimmerman? I mean I can understand the people who having looked at the evidence available to us are convinced that this is a case of a child on the way home from the candy store being chased down and shot getting really angry about this but what about the other side? I can understand pulling out the innocent until proven guilty statement, but why is anyone going beyond that? Why are people emotionally committed to backing Zimmerman to the point of getting themselves banned? I just don't even get the motivation here, seriously wtf is going on?


IMHO they are trying to defend the law as written...
If it looks like the stand your ground law allows a wacko to kill with impunity, it will destroy the law in the court of public opinion, and this law is very important to the NRA for some reason.



farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 9:04:35 PM)

What part of "Trayvon Martin was justified in defending himself however he felt necessary against George Zimmerman, including "beating him up" under 776.013(3), UNLESS Zimmerman can actively prove he meets all the requirements under 776.041" don't you understand?

And of course, 'beating him up' is sort of a stretch since they didn't even bother sending him to the ER for any x-rays or stitches, so... Zimmerman's story ain't all that solid, especially since Zimmerman's injuries ARE consistent with Martin's lawful use of force.

If you don't want to be considered the provoker, don't go chasing after people while armed at night with no legal authority. You can understand how people BEING CHASED AT NIGHT by an armed stranger might be concerned for their lives, right?



farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 9:24:24 PM)

Well, given that Zimmerman was armed, and followed someone he reported to 9-1-1, calling him a "Neighborhood Watch Guy" is a lie. Show me ONE LEGITIMATE NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH WHICH TRAINS ARMED PURSUIT AS ANYTHING BUT NEGLIGENCE WHICH WILL GET YOU THROWN OUT.

Then, you need to prove that Trayvon Martin wasn't acting in accordance with 776.013(3), in defending himself against an armed stranger -- without legal authority -- chasing him at night before characterizing the trivial injuries consistent with Martin's self-defense against an armed attacker ( who would themselves be the provoker under the statute and would need to prove at least five separate elements to claim self-defense )

So, maybe you don't want to by lying and shit?



Hillwilliam -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 9:25:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daog

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: daog

Farg, and the girlfriends testimony is that Martin confronted the neighborhood watch guy.

Not the other way around lie you keep telling.

2 weeks ago yall were trumpeting her testimony, untill you realised it backs up Zimmermanns defense.

That's interesting that you just arrived here and you're familiar with what happened 2 weeks ago.

All I would like to ask is which banned personage are you a sock for?


A sock is a fake persona used to agree with ones self, like Arpig was doing with the fake lesbians.

I feel like posting, and the mods ban for political content.

You and Owner 59 sure are pussies though, hiding behind a moderator, because you can't challenge a single fact I posted.


and you reading comprehension is very poor, as we have established many times over...

try reading my name slowly if you cant figure it out.


Of course some of you are crying to the mods right now, and this account will get closed.

and I ll make another when I feel like it.

You however will remain a pussy who hides behind the mods, because you are scared of debate.



A sock is a personna that is used when someone is too stupid to follow the rules and gets banned. Therefore, he feels the need to make up a new profile so he can return to violating TOS and get banned again.

If you think I'm either afraid of OR hide behind the Mods, maybe you should read this thread. http://www.collarchat.com/m_3984222/tm.htm

As for scared of debate, unlucky puppy, when you resort to personal attacks, it means you are incapable of debating neh?

As for a coward, attacking via email and then running with your tail between your legs is what I call cowardiance.

You'll get banned again but it won't be because of my actions. You'll do it to yourself but won't take responsibility.

Then, you'll whine like some kinda entitlement boy liberal cause it WEEALLY ISNY MY FAULT. THOSE MEANIES PICKED ON ME.[sm=boohoo.gif][sm=hissyfit.gif]

Don't worry tho. We'll call the WAAAAAAAMbulance for you.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? (4/6/2012 9:50:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, given that Zimmerman was armed, and followed someone he reported to 9-1-1, calling him a "Neighborhood Watch Guy" is a lie. Show me ONE LEGITIMATE NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH WHICH TRAINS ARMED PURSUIT AS ANYTHING BUT NEGLIGENCE WHICH WILL GET YOU THROWN OUT.

Then, you need to prove that Trayvon Martin wasn't acting in accordance with 776.013(3), in defending himself against an armed stranger -- without legal authority -- chasing him at night before characterizing the trivial injuries consistent with Martin's self-defense against an armed attacker ( who would themselves be the provoker under the statute and would need to prove at least five separate elements to claim self-defense )

So, maybe you don't want to by lying and shit?

quote:


RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:34:44 PM   

farglebargle
Deranged




Posts: 9165
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: daog

I already did, eyewitness that Travon was holding him down and beating him as he screamed for help (recorded on the 911 call).





And what part of that meets the necessary requirements under 776.041? And of course, there are people willing to testify in court that it's NOT Zimmerman screaming for help. Where are the experts testifying that they ARE Zimmerman's screams? I mean, until it's adjudicated in court, it's all speculation, but hey, after being chased at night, if someone pulls a gun on me, I'd be begging for my life, too..

And of course, that would take us out of manslaughter, perhaps by negligence, and into murder, with a decent case for capital murder being made if they tie the "These assholes always get away" with the holes in Zimmerman's story, and the convenient way he ended the 9-1-1 call which would have recorded his final confrontation with Martin... I think you could sell it to a jury...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to daog)
Profile   Report | Post #: 122



So what do you want him charged with? Murder or manslaughter? Have you changed your opinion that George Zimmerman plotted and hunted down Trayvon Martin and killed him in cold blood?

Too bad you weren't around to convince a jury that Limerick Nelson murdered Yankle Rosenbaum



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