RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs?

RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs?

Yes

20% (5)

80% (20)

Total Votes : 25

(last vote on : 4/13/2012 3:38:10 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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erieangel -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 2:29:45 AM)
quote: it's pretty inarguable that the bulk of goods sold in the 'States are manufactured elsewhere. Are you sure about that? Walmart sells a brand of children's toy furniture (Summertime). The boxes are marked with the "made in China" stamp. However, when my son worked for a plastics manufacturer, he made Summertime furniture. See, Summertime contracts with several small plastic shops to get their furniture made and at least one of those factories is in China, so ALL of the furniture must, by law, be stamped with "made in China". It is misleading.

LaTigresse -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 3:55:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: The Bush tax cuts were extended recently, but are still temporary. I'd like to propose that if they are extended again, the cuts only apply to folks who actually create US jobs. How many US jobs has the average person created? How many jobs have the 1% created in America, rather than (say) China and India? It always strikes me as funny when you see claims that the plutocracy shouldn't be paying taxes because they create employment, despite the fact that they've spent most of the last forty years moving employment out of your country as thoroughly as they can. I don't have to read any further. Between this and Music's post.......my thoughts. I believe they've had plenty enough opportunity to 'prove' themselves. They didn't and they won't. It's obvious that the poor republican backers have never worked in an HR dept of a major company. Especially during lean times.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 7:54:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: The Bush tax cuts were extended recently, but are still temporary. I'd like to propose that if they are extended again, the cuts only apply to folks who actually create US jobs. How many US jobs has the average person created? How many jobs have the 1% created in America, rather than (say) China and India? It always strikes me as funny when you see claims that the plutocracy shouldn't be paying taxes because they create employment, despite the fact that they've spent most of the last forty years moving employment out of your country as thoroughly as they can. I don't have to read any further. Between this and Music's post.......my thoughts. I believe they've had plenty enough opportunity to 'prove' themselves. They didn't and they won't. It's obvious that the poor republican backers have never worked in an HR dept of a major company. Especially during lean times. Drink deeply the rhetorical Kool-Aid, LaTigresse. It is good for you. Right?

mnottertail -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 7:56:31 AM)
How is it rhetorical Kool-Aide prithee, you have substantial and credible proof to the contrary that has yet to be unveiled?

LaTigresse -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 8:29:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: The Bush tax cuts were extended recently, but are still temporary. I'd like to propose that if they are extended again, the cuts only apply to folks who actually create US jobs. How many US jobs has the average person created? How many jobs have the 1% created in America, rather than (say) China and India? It always strikes me as funny when you see claims that the plutocracy shouldn't be paying taxes because they create employment, despite the fact that they've spent most of the last forty years moving employment out of your country as thoroughly as they can. I don't have to read any further. Between this and Music's post.......my thoughts. I believe they've had plenty enough opportunity to 'prove' themselves. They didn't and they won't. It's obvious that the poor republican backers have never worked in an HR dept of a major company. Especially during lean times. Drink deeply the rhetorical Kool-Aid, LaTigresse. It is good for you. Right? I don't drink or purchase Kool-Aid or any of that other crap . I also believe in being proactive in my health care by doing things that cause me to need it less. I believe in supporting a healthy life style. Something you apparently are unfamiliar with. I've also see the corporate greed first hand. Wealthy people/corporations only care about protecting their bottom line. Sending manufacturing to cheap 3rd world countries, laying off their middle class, blue collar workers, lessening benefits, etc.......THOSE are the things the wealthy do. They, much like your attitude here, is all about taking care of them. It is not about taking care of their employees. They do not care about their employees in as much as it does not benefit them. I am thrilled that you do enjoy the republican beveri as much as you do. For the very reason I avoid it, you show the dangers of partaking. I prefer my clear, pollutant free, water. Please do try it one day. I believe the health benefits may possibly promote a more clear thought process as well as a more slender waist line and alleviates the constipation I am convinced you suffer. Win win.

Edwynn -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 8:32:33 AM)
Her tea was near the same color as whatever he's been drinking, he thought she was stealing it. But yes, someone who continually denies what people who actually know what they are talking about tell him, as it interferes with his fantasy world, referring to someone else partaking of Kool-Aid, is, 'what it is,' as they say. (I'm not going to use one of those fancy words that describe cognitive bias, because there is more likely complete cognitive disconnect here, making use of such fancy word actually inappropriate). Some people ...

Exidor -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 10:45:47 AM)
I find it interesting that Americans pay knee-jerk lip service to "equality" and "fair play", then want to single out and penalize groups of people. Exactly why should "the rich" pay more taxes than you do? Why not put the screws to, oh, single mothers, for example? They're both getting the same services from the government. Well, in practices single mothers are usually eligible for more services, therefore in fairness they should pay more, right? Somehow, nobody seems to want "fair" if it comes out of their own pocket.

LaTigresse -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 10:46:55 AM)
Fair is an equal percentage of income. Nothing about 'singling out' there.

Moonhead -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 11:06:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Exidor Exactly why should "the rich" pay more taxes than you do? They don't. It would, however, be nice if they did pay an equal percentage of taxes to everybody else, which they also don't.

ConfidencePlays -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 11:12:30 AM)
I would never support lower taxes on the rich. I would however support laws adding taxes to corporations who import manufactured goods from overseas. You want to send the jobs to China, fine. Just don't expect us to keep turning a blind eye.

Moonhead -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 11:24:40 AM)
A punitive import duty would definitely be a good idea. It certainly isn't hurting the Chinese economy any, after all...

DesideriScuri -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 11:38:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Fair is an equal percentage of income. Nothing about 'singling out' there. Until "fair" ends up hurting the poor, right? Tax the Oil Companies! They are raking in record profits!! Their margin is, what? <10%? What is Apples profit margin? GE was >10% when the oil companies were making record profits. Was anyone complaining about that? No. Stats will be skewed to fit whatever fight you're going against. Admit it. I suppose the next time a rich man and a poor man walk into a McD's the rich man should pay more for his Big Mac than the poor guy, right? I would love for someone to show me how "Equal Protection Under the Law" leads to the rich having to pay more. Would LOVE to see that.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 11:47:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Exidor Exactly why should "the rich" pay more taxes than you do? They don't. It would, however, be nice if they did pay an equal percentage of taxes to everybody else, which they also don't. What is it about equal percentages? You want equality? Fine. We have 303M people in this country. Obama's budget for 2013 is $3.8T. That averages out to $12,550 per person. Equal percentage of the Federal budget. How about we round that up to $13,000 each. That would give us $450/person in debt reduction, or a grand total of $136.35B surplus. Let's make it a cool $15,000 and we could hit the deficit by just over $742B. Isn't that fair? Each person paying his or her share? I mean, everyone is getting the same benefits of government, right?

LaTigresse -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 11:54:45 AM)
Please, use your brain before hitting enter. I don't know how you consistently manage to put one plus one and come up with 3, or some other obscure number that makes no sense at all. I would never expect a wealthy person to pay more for a BigMac. Most wealthy people have the intelligence to skip eating the shit served at McD's and go somewhere they can get real food. Kinda like I do. However, in using the sales tax here in Iowa as an example. Let's say one of the more wealthy citizens of Iowa City goes down to Carousel Motors to purchase a car on the same day I decide I need to purchase a new car. I pick out a nice new, economical M3 for 20K. Wealthy person picks a fancy new Audi or Mercedes for 50K. While the wealthy person and I are both buying new cars, we are buying cars selling at vastly different prices..........yet, we are still both going to pay the same PERCENTAGE of state sales tax. Yes, I will pay less money in state sales tax for my M3 than the wealthy person pays for their luxury car. Do I believe that is fair.........absofuckinglutely. I would also think it was fair if I WAS THE WEALTHY PERSON. I suppose you believe that a wealthy person should be able to buy a Mercedes for less, pay less in tax and license, just cuz you fancy it's their right? Why some morons do not understand that taxes based upon straight percentages of wealth/income/etc........is fair is beyond me. Then again, I also don't understand why any reasonably intelligent person, would eat at McDs either. So hey, wealthy persons, you want fair............donate all your shit until you are so poor that the tax percentage you have to pay equals the amount you want to pay. Easy peasy.

bighappygoth39 -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 12:49:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Exidor Exactly why should "the rich" pay more taxes than you do? They don't. It would, however, be nice if they did pay an equal percentage of taxes to everybody else, which they also don't. What is it about equal percentages? You want equality? Fine. We have 303M people in this country. Obama's budget for 2013 is $3.8T. That averages out to $12,550 per person. Equal percentage of the Federal budget. How about we round that up to $13,000 each. That would give us $450/person in debt reduction, or a grand total of $136.35B surplus. Let's make it a cool $15,000 and we could hit the deficit by just over $742B. Isn't that fair? Each person paying his or her share? I mean, everyone is getting the same benefits of government, right? People are not getting the same benefits of government, you'll find. Those at the bottom of the pile are not getting huge tax cuts, legislation passed to suit them, or legal impunity. When everybody gets the same benefits, and all wages are fixed at the same level, then there might be some call for a universal fixed tax rate. As things stand, everybody paying the same percentage is a more realistic goal, as that would mean that the people who earn more, pay more, while still donating the same fraction of their income. Is that a simple enough explanation for you to grasp, or do I need to put a video with little puppets on youtube for you?

SoftBonds -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 3:03:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Exidor I find it interesting that Americans pay knee-jerk lip service to "equality" and "fair play", then want to single out and penalize groups of people. Exactly why should "the rich" pay more taxes than you do? Why not put the screws to, oh, single mothers, for example? They're both getting the same services from the government. Well, in practices single mothers are usually eligible for more services, therefore in fairness they should pay more, right? Somehow, nobody seems to want "fair" if it comes out of their own pocket. OK, well, how about this. The rich get a 100% tax break, they don't have to pay any taxes at all. In exchange for this, all they give up is their rights under the legal system. Anyone can rob them, kill them, or kidnap them. Unless you think the rich have more to lose than the rest of us, that shouldn't be a problem, right? How much money could we save if we stopped enforcing contract laws for the rich, for example? How much does the government pay to inspect meats to make sure consumers trust the foods that are sold, so that the rich can sell the food for more? If you have shares in a corporation, and the SEC certifies the books, that costs the government money, why should the poor pay for that? Heck, the companies you own shares in do far more damage to the federal interstate highway system (18 wheelers) than most poor people (small cars), and the poor pay not only more in gas taxes than the rich as a percentage, but they pay more than the damage to the roads caused by their cars, while the corporations pay less in gas taxes than the damage the big rigs do. If China invades, the average poor person isn't going to lose much, but the rich will lose a lot to the communist government. Why should the poor pay anything for the military? Sorry, unless you ignore the areas most of the federal budget is spent on, the idea that the rich don't get more government for their money than the poor doesn't pass the smell test.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 7:11:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Exidor I find it interesting that Americans pay knee-jerk lip service to "equality" and "fair play", then want to single out and penalize groups of people. Exactly why should "the rich" pay more taxes than you do? Why not put the screws to, oh, single mothers, for example? They're both getting the same services from the government. Well, in practices single mothers are usually eligible for more services, therefore in fairness they should pay more, right? Somehow, nobody seems to want "fair" if it comes out of their own pocket. Exactly why I asked the question....who are "rich" people. They're never you or I (of course, and regardless of our income), yet the least of us are rich compared to those in Sudan, Georgia, Libya, Egypt, most of Asia. There should be no differentiation as to taxes on earned versus unearned income....there should be no cap on SSI....if you earn "income", regardless of its source....you owe SSI....and.... They should take their fucking mitts off of all SSI income....separate pot. WTF do I know? I'm just a guy paying taxes.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 7:26:18 PM)
Two words: Consumption Tax. Fair is fair. Peace and comfort, Michael

DesideriScuri -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 7:44:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Please, use your brain before hitting enter. You have absolutely no idea who you are talking to. I'm surprised you haven't been addressed by a mod. quote: I suppose you believe that a wealthy person should be able to buy a Mercedes for less, pay less in tax and license, just cuz you fancy it's their right? Yeah, that's the ticket. quote: Why some morons do not understand that taxes based upon straight percentages of wealth/income/etc........is fair is beyond me. Then again, I also don't understand why any reasonably intelligent person, would eat at McDs either. So hey, wealthy persons, you want fair............donate all your shit until you are so poor that the tax percentage you have to pay equals the amount you want to pay. Easy peasy. And, again, with the thinly veiled personal attacks. Interesting. Not surprising, but interesting. Oh, what's really interesting - and you'd know this if you read all my posts - is that I'm all for either a straight percentage income tax (with the only exemptions being for charities), or a straight consumption tax. You want easy peasy? Go either of those routes. You make $1 - $1B+? 17%, please. (straight % tax, notice, too, that there is no different rate for capital gains, etc.) You don't want to pay so much for taxes? Don't spend so much. I must also note that the items that are currently sales tax exempt should remain so under a consumption tax plan, IMO. Food is exempt as it is now, so the high consumption tax will not hit the poor excessively.

SoftBonds -> RE: Would you support lower taxes for the rich ONLY if they can show they created US jobs? (4/9/2012 11:04:07 PM)
How about a consumption tax and a capital gains tax. Otherwise the rich can just sit on their money forever, never spend it, and never pay taxes... "What is wrong with that?" Well, for one thing, it is really bad for the economy. Trading stocks, for example, doesn't do much to actually create jobs or goods or services. Plus the US government spends a huge amount of money on the corporations, making their products safe enough to trust for one thing. Someone on one of these threads pointed out that the US Navy maintains freedom of the seas, which doesn't do much for the average consumer (maybe Chinese stuff at walmart is slightly cheaper?) but which is a huge boon to the rich investors and corporations. Heck, I'd argue that these days the entire military is an expense that only benefits the rich. You think Canada's gonna invade us Aye?

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