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murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 10:58:32 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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If only they had waited for the matter to be cleared up, but they obviously thought it never would be. They probably thought they would never see their child again or be allowed to keep any future children and spend the rest of their lives on the child abuse registry. I've met parents that are so afraid of CPS they don't seek medical attention when their children accidentally injure themselves.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 4/6/2012 11:00:29 AM >

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 11:04:29 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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Status: offline 		I can not imagine the anguish that would be caused by false allegations of abuse, but, I also can not help but feel that someone who would commit a murder-suicide because of such allegations had problems other than these false allegations.

Too bad he had to kill the mom too. The chickenshit asshole coulda just blown his own brains out.



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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 11:16:26 AM   
mnottertail


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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 11:17:39 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 12:06:03 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Status: offline 		I am having trouble working up any sympathy for the people in this story. I keep trying, but nope.

On the other hand, in a case from my County, a man was convicted about 12 years ago for raping his 11 yo daughter. She apparently found god, and is now recanting her story. Now him i feel sorry for. The prosecutor is not filing charges against the daughter because that would discourage other children from reporting rape.

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 12:56:51 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		The guy definitely shouldn't have killed his wife or himself, although I could understand the suicide. Society really makes it tough for anyone accused of a crime involving a child (child abuse registries, sex offender registries).

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 1:14:10 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		But do we protect the families or the children?

Spinal muscular atrophy (SMA) is an incurable autosomal recessive disease caused by a genetic defect in the SMN1 gene which codes SMN, a protein necessary for survival of motor neurons, and resulting in death of neuronal cells in the anterior horn of spinal cord and subsequent system-wide muscle wasting (atrophy).

Spinal muscular atrophy manifests in various degrees of severity which all have in common general muscle wasting and mobility impairment. Other body systems may be affected as well, particularly in early-onset forms. Spinal muscular atrophy is the most common genetic cause of infant death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_muscular_atrophy

Sad fact is, the father took the easy way out.

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 1:38:39 PM   
LaTigresse


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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 3:39:08 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

How is this religioun or politics?

Are you saying that one of them is NOT the cause of all bad that happens in this world?

Fuckity fuck fuck

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 3:41:33 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

http://gma.yahoo.com/rare-disease-mimics-child-abuse-tears-family-apart-210441467--abc-news-health.html

If only they had waited for the matter to be cleared up, but they obviously thought it never would be. They probably thought they would never see their child again or be allowed to keep any future children and spend the rest of their lives on the child abuse registry. I've met parents that are so afraid of CPS they don't seek medical attention when their children accidentally injure themselves.


Not getting medical attention for an injured child is child abuse.
That said, a lot of folks really don't get the system. I've actually had an investigation into something that happened, and they said essentially "You made an understandable mistake, don't do it again." And this was in the hotbed of nanny-politics liberalism known as California (joke).
I also remember the story of the 2 year old girl in Alaska who died of child abuse after 17 reports. They are so understaffed up there and the laws are so pro-parent "rights," that while the mom's boyfriend was sexually and physically abusing the kid, DFYS did nothing.

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 4:37:30 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

Not getting medical attention for an injured child is child abuse.



Getting medical attention can lead to false charges of child abuse. One of my co-workers was stressing over her son's eye injury. Her young toddler was jumping on furniture after being told not to and ended up hitting his eye on the coffee table corner. When I asked what the doctor said, she told me she couldn't take him in because he'd be taken away and she'd be thrown in jail. She said his injury looked like he was punched in the eye. She really wanted to get him medical attention but she was terrified of losing him because of CPS.


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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 4:52:46 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

Not getting medical attention for an injured child is child abuse.



Getting medical attention can lead to false charges of child abuse. One of my co-workers was stressing over her son's eye injury. Her young toddler was jumping on furniture after being told not to and ended up hitting his eye on the coffee table corner. When I asked what the doctor said, she told me she couldn't take him in because he'd be taken away and she'd be thrown in jail. She said his injury looked like he was punched in the eye. She really wanted to get him medical attention but she was terrified of losing him because of CPS.


If the bolded is true, she should have her child taken away.

Good grief.

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 4:58:37 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

she told me she couldn't take him in because he'd be taken away and she'd be thrown in jail. She said his injury looked like he was punched in the eye. She really wanted to get him medical attention but she was terrified of losing him because of CPS.


This thought process would never in a million years cross my sister's mind.

Has your friend had previous encounters with CPS, either as an adult or child?

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 5:04:52 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		We weren't really friends, just co-workers. She said she knew someone who lost a child to CPS because of a false accusation of child abuse over an injury.

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 5:59:14 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

We weren't really friends, just co-workers. She said she knew someone who lost a child to CPS because of a false accusation of child abuse over an injury.


Given the hoops CPS has to jump through to take a child out of the home, do you think it is more likely that she knew someone who lost a child to CPS because of a FALSE accusation of child abuse, or a TRUE accusation of child abuse.
Just sayin...

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 6:19:10 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		Yeah, that could be. If it had been my child, I would've gotten medical attention and hoped like hell nothing happened. I shudder when I think what it must be like to be falsely accused. Losing a child, name on child abuse registry, possible job loss, lack of money to fight them in court, etc.

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 6:27:47 PM   
Edwynn


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Well, the example in the OP and the example of the mother avoiding medical attention for the child for fear of CPS are, suffice it to say, not the best examples to give in pointing out the shortcomings and outright abuse of CPS. In both situations there seems to be something at least questionable about one of the parents even though no abuse occurred.

My brother in law and two different couple friends have suffered through accusations from police and CPS (one episode each, no repeat accusations) based on the most incredulous premise in every case. In all cases the child was taken to a doctor for examination to determine whether abuse occurred and the parents were not allowed to know the result or determination of the doctor. It was clear afterwards in every event that daycare workers had been advised to be "on the alert" for various signs of abuse and that their unprofessional and clumsy attempts at identifying potential abuse were taken unquestioningly and without the simplest verification of any sort by CPS. In every case CPS pursued the investigation for weeks beyond already determining that no professionally verifiable instance of abuse had occurred, with the overtly displayed attitude that the parents were getting away with something.

None of these parents were 'disciplinarians,' and none of the kids were much trouble at all to babysit (which I did for all concerned here).

In any case, the kids are all grown now and doing well, I'm sure they've all been high or drunk a few times, and as yet no traumatic flashback or confession they were actually abused when young. I know that some of the worst abusers are expert at presenting a sunny disposition towards neighbors and fooling everybody, but when you are more involved with people than just being neighbors the signs would come out if anything untowards were happening. That is how most legitimate accusations of abuse come to light (aside from doctor or hospital visits).

The PBS documentary The Taking of Logan Marr was quite chilling, but yet CPS abuse occurs still, both from belligerence and from gross ineptitude. The job of the CPS is certainly needed and the majority of their investigations are warranted, but their attitude from what I have seen is 'once accused, always guilty.'

A good many of them lack professionalism, to put it mildly.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/6/2012 7:04:57 PM >

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/6/2012 6:38:57 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Given the hoops CPS has to jump through to take a child out of the home, ...


Maybe in Alaska or Cali, but not from what I've seen. Aside from actual beatings requiring the hospital visit where the child can be taken right away, I've read local or regional accounts of the kids being removed after two CPS home visits and a simple court order for non-abuse cases. For serious parental neglect this is as it should be, but it also leaves room for abuse by inept CPS workers. In any event, I cannot imagine any state where actual verifiable physical abuse requires CPS to 'jump through hoops' to take action.


PS

That said, I fully concur with others' assessment of the mother who did not have her child treated for an injury from supposed fear of CPS. Doctors treat kids' wounds all the time, only some rare instances occasioning a call from the doctor to the authorities. From what I have witnessed, the doctor or nurse are the only ones who actually know what they're doing in these cases.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/6/2012 7:02:42 PM >

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/7/2012 4:20:35 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Where I live, I've seen children that were routinely abused by parents, called the authorities multiple times......never seen or heard of anyone I knew having a child removed from the home and the abusive parents. I always got, "Did you actually SEE the abuse happen?" Apparently hearing it, seeing the after effects, are not enough to get the authorities excited.

My grandsons have been to the ER more times than my two kids, myself and my 5 siblings, combined. They just live life fearlessly and fully. They've always been that way. I remember when I was helping my son and his wife move. The oldest grand was only about 18 months old. I came around the corner into the kitchen and he had climbed, with fingers and toes, up the front of the lower kitchen cabinets, onto the counter, opened the upper kitchen cabinet door and was just raising a leg to climb onto the top of the top cabinet near the ceiling. That has been quite typical of his adventures and also his younger brother. But with all of their trips to the ER, not once has there been any sort of serious investigation as to the possibility of abuse.

Shame on ANY parent that would put their own legal liability before medical help for their child/ren!

My son's ex may have treated him like shit, hurt him badly......but I will never EVER say she is a bad mother. Quite the opposite.

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RE: murder/suicide over false child abuse accusation - 4/7/2012 7:27:12 AM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

My son's ex may have treated him like shit, hurt him badly......but I will never EVER say she is a bad mother. Quite the opposite.


First, agree with everything you said!
However, wanted to point out part of your quote, in relation to something I just learned yesterday.
In the state of California, abusing your spouse in front of the children is considered a form of child abuse, and is reportable. I'm not talking about "We were having a BDSM game and the kid woke up and wondered into the room," I'm talking about a wife routinely verbally abusing the husband for literally hours at a time, where the kids could see and hear, along with a few cases of physical assault for which she ended up pleading guilty to battery and going to anger management for.
Anyway, the reason for that? Children determine what is "normal," and "OK," for future relationships based on what they see in the home. By allowing my wife to abuse me, even though I just ignored it, I taught my daughters that it was ok for them to abuse someone, or for someone to abuse them.
Now I know, and you can be Dammed sure my kids won't see it again! But yes I had to talk to a social worker about it, got a warning, and they have referred services for me.

Oh, also worth talking about the two different meanings for "having the kids taken away," (or maybe 3). Social services can take kids out of the home for hours/days to protect them from an immediate threat, for months while the parents resolve issues that prevent them from being good parents, or forever if the parents are just unfit. If the social worker comes over because Dad put Mom in the hospital, she will probably take the kids until Mom gets out of the hospital rather than let Dad keep them (assuming dad isn't in jail...). If the social worker comes over because Dad is gone and Mom OD'd on drugs, the kids will probably be taken away until Mom gets treatment and gets over her addiction. If the social worker comes over because both parents beat the kid up and the kid has broken bones, they won't see the kid again.

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