RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off.

RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 11:46:24 AM)
quote: If you want to tell me what to do when I'm off the clock, then you can damn well pay me for it, otherwise, when the whistle blows, you can go fuck yourself. I'm guessing you can't pay me that much. Most of those who in sports have certain clauses that cover how they represent the entity they work for. Sign that and you have agreed to how they stipulate it.

xssve -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 11:49:35 AM)
Free speech is dead then, what's left is extortion. Like I said, money talks, that's your value system, period.

Musicmystery -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 1:35:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xssve quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: xssve That's bullshit, what kind of a value system is that? what values does it represent? Oh right, money talks. Huh? You represent my business, and I have no say in how you do that? THAT'S bullshit. You don't fit into those values, work somewhere else where you're a better fit. If you want to tell me what to do when I'm off the clock, then you can damn well pay me for it, otherwise, when the whistle blows, you can go fuck yourself. I'm guessing you can't pay me that much. Not sure what crawled into your shorts, but you're either missing the point or deliberately distorting it. If you're not a good fit, we aren't going to work well together, you aren't going to be good for business or for clients, and should work where you and the work you do are more compatible. And yes, if I'm paying the bills, I get to make that determination. As do you to decide not to work in this endeavor. NONE of that is a violation of free speech--in fact, it's pure freedom, all the way around.

thompsonx -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 2:10:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b The distinction between government censorship and public opprobrium that others have noted is pertinent. Still, I think people tend to go too far in some case in demanding that people be fired for things they said. Just proclaim the guy an asshole (and he is an asshole if he thinks there is anything admirable about a murdering, torturing, dictator) and leave it at that. Perhaps you might acquaint yourself with the facts of the case before you post an opinion. Do you seriously believe that the cuban people were better off under batista?

thompsonx -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 2:11:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b The distinction between government censorship and public opprobrium that others have noted is pertinent. Still, I think people tend to go too far in some case in demanding that people be fired for things they said. Just proclaim the guy an asshole (and he is an asshole if he thinks there is anything admirable about a murdering, torturing, dictator) and leave it at that. If you represented my business, and acted like an asshole publicly, you'd be fired that day. He is a coach not a representative of anyone's bussiness. A business decision, not a free speech statement. Since mlb is not a business in any sense of the word how can it be a business decission?

Musicmystery -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:04:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b The distinction between government censorship and public opprobrium that others have noted is pertinent. Still, I think people tend to go too far in some case in demanding that people be fired for things they said. Just proclaim the guy an asshole (and he is an asshole if he thinks there is anything admirable about a murdering, torturing, dictator) and leave it at that. If you represented my business, and acted like an asshole publicly, you'd be fired that day. He is a coach not a representative of anyone's bussiness. A business decision, not a free speech statement. Since mlb is not a business in any sense of the word how can it be a business decission? He is a coach, and is absolutely representative of the organization. MLB is a business in EVERY sense of the word.

thompsonx -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:08:19 PM)
quote: He is a coach, and is absolutely representative of the organization. He is a coach...he coaches players to play better...he is not a mouthpiece for the team or mlb. MLB is a business in EVERY sense of the word. Are players for mlb free to work for whom they choose? MLB is legalized slavery not a business.

Musicmystery -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:11:06 PM)
You are a very silly person.

thompsonx -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:13:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery You are a very silly person. Personal attacks are a poor substitute for discussion.

Musicmystery -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:17:40 PM)
Statement of fact.

thompsonx -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:29:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub And so are the fans by demanding his firing...What you say may not be enough to put you in jail but it can cost you your job... There is no job guarantee in the constitution...There can always be negative consequences when we open our mouths. Butch Is it your position that a person may be fired from their job because of their political beliefs?

thompsonx -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:31:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Statement of fact. No...it is your fucking opinion. My opinion is that those who cannot defend their position with logic and facts usally resort to name calling and personal attacks.

thompsonx -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:34:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir FR Freedom of speech doesn't necessarily mean freedom of consequences. Privately held companies CAN limit the speech of their employees without breaking the law, particularly if said speech can affect the income of others. If the fans say "I refuse to finance X person running their mouth so I'm not going to pay for tickets, advertising, paraphernalia, etc.) then the owners of the teams have a fiduciary responsibility to the others owners/shareholders. We would all love to hear about the scotus cases where a person was terminated for their poitical beliefs and it was found to be constitutional.

kdsub -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:48:42 PM)
quote: Is it your position that a person may be fired from their job because of their political beliefs? Don't we fire the President because of his? Butch

SoftBonds -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:50:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: Is it your position that a person may be fired from their job because of their political beliefs? Don't we fire the President because of his? Butch Not often enough. Actually, even worse are Reps and Senators. Who would support a nice cushy retirement after 20 years of federal service-aka no more running for election if you have been in office at the federal level for 20 years???

Musicmystery -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:53:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Statement of fact. No...it is your fucking opinion. My opinion is that those who cannot defend their position with logic and facts usally resort to name calling and personal attacks. Mine is that people who focus on reinventing the meaning of words to pretend they're making an argument are silly. I also think it's a pity taking time to enjoy life and be silly has become an insult.

Musicmystery -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:54:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir FR Freedom of speech doesn't necessarily mean freedom of consequences. Privately held companies CAN limit the speech of their employees without breaking the law, particularly if said speech can affect the income of others. If the fans say "I refuse to finance X person running their mouth so I'm not going to pay for tickets, advertising, paraphernalia, etc.) then the owners of the teams have a fiduciary responsibility to the others owners/shareholders. We would all love to hear about the scotus cases where a person was terminated for their poitical beliefs and it was found to be constitutional. People can be terminated because the employer doesn't like their shoes. Welcome to the private sector.

dcnovice -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:55:26 PM)
FR Honest question: How is the Marlins' disciplining Guillen (to protect their brand) different from sponsors' leaving Rush Limbaugh (to protect their brands) after his "slut" comments?

Musicmystery -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:56:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR Honest question: How is the Marlins' disciplining Guillen (to protect their brand) different from sponsors' leaving Rush Limbaugh (to protect their brands) after his "slut" comments? It's not different at all.

searching4mysir -> RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. (4/11/2012 3:57:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: He is a coach, and is absolutely representative of the organization. He is a coach...he coaches players to play better...he is not a mouthpiece for the team or mlb. MLB is a business in EVERY sense of the word. Are players for mlb free to work for whom they choose? MLB is legalized slavery not a business. They can choose another line of work. No one is FORCED to work in MLB. In fact, it is a dream for most. It is far from slavery.

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