RE: Vigilante Madness - Not Just In Sanford, Florida (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: Vigilante Madness - Not Just In Sanford, Florida (4/13/2012 6:05:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


I dont understand why the cops didnt charge her



Possibly because there are big pieces of the story missing? You'll notice the cops didn't arrest/cite the kids either, for operating a go-cart on the public roads.




truckinslave -> RE: Vigilante Madness - Not Just In Sanford, Florida (4/13/2012 8:36:34 PM)

No no no no
What "other side of the story"?




philosophy -> RE: Vigilante Madness - Not Just In Sanford, Florida (4/13/2012 11:33:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


I dont understand why the cops didnt charge her



Possibly because there are big pieces of the story missing? You'll notice the cops didn't arrest/cite the kids either, for operating a go-cart on the public roads.



Well, we know some facts.

The kids were driving go-karts, possibly in an illegal way. Call it a misdemenour.

Someone drove a car at them, and I'm fairly sure thats vehicular assault or something similar.


No-one is arrested at the scene. However, it appears at least one of the kids needed to go to hospital.



.....you're wholly correct in stating we don't know all the facts, but (just as in another not to be mentioned case) police seem reluctant to press charges.

Racism? I doubt it. That word gets bandied about too freely.

(Godwin Mandelas law perhaps? First person to shout racism automatically loses?)

However, I do see a problem here. There seems to be a pattern of adults using overwhelming and potentially deadly force against children.........and the police seem unwilling to hold anyone responsible.


Now, I'm positive this is not a global situation. Most police officers I've met have been good people, or at least as good as anyone else people. The two situations I've heard about are probably relatively rare occurances. However, if even one child loses faith in the police, and by extension the judicial system, this is a very bad thing.

No-one can police by force for any length of time. It may take decades, but systems like that will collapse. The alternative is policing by consent. This is only achieved by being conspicuously and scrupulously even handed. And by also remembering the first rule of justice. Justice must be seen to be done.

Justice in secret is no justice at all.

In situations like this, police departments need to be way, way better at explaining why arrests have not been made. There may be good reasons, but if we don't know what those reasons are that's a problem right by itself.










tj444 -> RE: Vigilante Madness - Not Just In Sanford, Florida (4/14/2012 3:48:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I dont understand why the cops didnt charge her


Possibly because there are big pieces of the story missing? You'll notice the cops didn't arrest/cite the kids either, for operating a go-cart on the public roads.

I am not the go-cart type,.. I have no idea about it being illegal to have a go-cart on public roads (Is that in all cities or just some?), you dont need a license to ride a bike or scooter down the road...

jmo.. but using a vehicle weighing several thousand pounds as a weapon against a little kid is dangerous and excessive and.. friggin stupid.. If the dumb c**t had a problem with the kids, then she should have pulled over and called security (if it was a gated community) or the cops and let them deal with the kids and the kids parents.. not run the kids over..




SilverBoat -> RE: Vigilante Madness - Not Just In Sanford, Florida (4/14/2012 6:05:35 AM)

In most of the cases where it seems from the facts available that an arrest and charges would usually have been made, various aspects of personal relationships or cultural congruency influence the officers' decisions at the scene, and all too often the subsequent legal actions by the 'authorities' ...

... Black guy follows and kills a white guy; the black guy claiming self-defense gets arrested (if not worse) by white cops. White guy follows and kills a black guy; the white guy claiming self-defense gets an interview and a see-ya-later from the white cops. Maybe his daddy being an ex-judge figured into that too.

... Black woman crosses the median to crush a white kid's four-wheeler in a public park; she gets arrested, drug tested, vehicle impounded, etc. White woman crosses the median to ram a black kid's go-kart in a public park; she gets a jolly gossip with the cops while the kid goes into the ambulance.

Maybe things have gotten better, since there's been centuries of lynchings, favoritism, wealth-and-connections make 'justice', etc, but there's still lots of evidence of racial, cultural, social, etc bias in laws, enforcement, etc.

...





TheHeretic -> RE: Vigilante Madness - Not Just In Sanford, Florida (4/14/2012 9:20:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I am not the go-cart type,.. I have no idea about it being illegal to have a go-cart on public roads (Is that in all cities or just some?), you dont need a license to ride a bike or scooter down the road...

jmo.. but using a vehicle weighing several thousand pounds as a weapon against a little kid is dangerous and excessive and.. friggin stupid.. If the dumb c**t had a problem with the kids, then she should have pulled over and called security (if it was a gated community) or the cops and let them deal with the kids and the kids parents.. not run the kids over..



Vehicle laws are going to come from the state, not the cities, and there will be some wide variations on some things, but to be street legal, a motorized vehicle is going to need brake lights, turn signals and a muffler - all things not typically found on go-carts. I recently found myself investigating the laws regarding horseback riding on the streets, and the rule of thumb that generally applies nationwide is that any mode of transportation that is used on the public roads must obey the rules of the road. (I also discovered an odd rule in California's laws that says a drunk on horseback is a drunk driver, unless they are not holding the reins).

Where I live, the problem isn't go-carts so much, but dirt bikes, quads, and assorted off-roader toys. We had a good rain yesterday, and within an hour or so, I expect to hear loud little engines racing up the streets of my little slice of semi-rural suburbia, as the riders make their way into the desert to play in the mud. Should a cop be in the right place, at the right time to see it, they will actually confiscate the vehicle, but mostly the kids get away with it. When enough complaints are received, the cops will schedule an enforcement day to hang around the area, bust a few, and hope the word spreads.

They do get those complaints about it, too. It can be annoying as hell, and there are always a few people who really let it get under their skin. Of my immediate neighbors who partake of the dust and mud, one has a 4-seater and is pretty courteous about keeping the rpm low, and driving in a responsible way as he takes the kids off for a ride. I expect that when those kids are old enough for their own toys, they'll be taught the same. Another is quite the opposite, as he warms up his 250cc dirt bike's extremely cold-blooded engine, then finally goes tearing off through the neighborhood with as much disregard for the stop signs, as he has already shown for the peace and quiet.

I'm scrolling around Pearland Texas in a satellite view on my tablet. It's an outer community of the Houston area. There are lots of modern suburban tract neighborhoods, with lots of cul de sacs, and only a couple outlets to the main streets. Prime territory for such issues to be things people deal with, instead of a hypothetical situation for urbanites to have only the vaguest uninformed notions of.

Even the bit of unauthenticated journalist hackery presented in the OP reveals that these kids were just joyriding on the streets, and thought it was fine to go running off into a park. As the women is reported to have said when she had her snap, "you kids don't belong in this neighborhood."




tj444 -> RE: Vigilante Madness - Not Just In Sanford, Florida (4/14/2012 10:11:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I'm scrolling around Pearland Texas in a satellite view on my tablet. It's an outer community of the Houston area. There are lots of modern suburban tract neighborhoods, with lots of cul de sacs, and only a couple outlets to the main streets. Prime territory for such issues to be things people deal with, instead of a hypothetical situation for urbanites to have only the vaguest uninformed notions of.

Even the bit of unauthenticated journalist hackery presented in the OP reveals that these kids were just joyriding on the streets, and thought it was fine to go running off into a park. As the women is reported to have said when she had her snap, "you kids don't belong in this neighborhood."

can you tell by scrolling in a satellite view if this area is gated or not? My original quesition has not been answered.. but,.. i expect the vigilante attitude is everywhere, not just in gated communities.. imo, gated communities are just this weeks bash topic.. (last week it was hoodies.. [8|] )

These kids and their parents may not know its illegal for the kids to ride their go carts on the street (if it is indeed illegal there).. and as you say.. complaints will bring the cops to deal in a proper manner with the problem.. if its a gated community then they have security to do that and also fines thru their bylaws (oddly enough.. fines have a tendancy to change behaviour pretty quickly).. that is the way it should have been done..

NOT run the kids over.. and ya know.. the dumb c**t's reason was not about their go carts but rather that they didnt belong in the neighborhood (which insnt true since they live there & belong there with just as much right as she has)..




TheHeretic -> RE: Vigilante Madness - Not Just In Sanford, Florida (4/14/2012 10:31:54 AM)

I didn't see a street name in the article, TJ. If you have one, I'll be happy to look. Guard shacks are easy enough to spot, and when I look at the few gated areas around here, I can see the gates by their shadow and center islands on the entry streets very easily.




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