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Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 1:42:37 PM   
DaKid8


Posts: 24
Joined: 6/3/2009
Status: offline 		Ok. Religion itself is not a bad thing. I think that for the most part it gives people hope and usually gives people a reason to act good. Whether for fear of hell or thinking that a higher power knows what they are doing. It gives some people a reason to live and some people devote their lives to it.

The reason I say religion is bad is because people mess it up. For thousands of years people in power has used religion in order to control everyone else. Religion has been the cause of many wars and great acts of devastation on the world.
People have really ruined what religion could have been and I hate that most religious people won't listen to facts or reason. People have tried to force others to believe in their religion and tried to force their own personal beliefs on everyone else.

I am curious to hear what other peoples thoughts on religion are.
I am in no way knocking other peoples religious beliefs, more the different religious systems that have been corrupted by people.
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RE: Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 2:27:01 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Superstitious nonsense with no redeeming virtues, since you asked.  However, if people choose to worship quietly and not try to foist their values and beliefs off on me, directly or indirectly, I am good with it.

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 3:54:59 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaKid8
For thousands of years people in power has used religion in order to control everyone else. Religion has been the cause of many wars and great acts of devastation on the world.

People have tried to force others to believe in their religion and tried to force their own personal beliefs on everyone else.



Old news. Like, way old news.

Constantine, Clovis I, et al. converted as and when it became apparent to them that this 'new' faith would enhance or reinforce their power.

Power corrupts everything; societal goals, economics, religion ... everything.

The latest round of ear-split yelping form the orphaned pack of hyenas referring to themselves as 'the right' or 'conservatives' (as Orwellian construct) makes it plain that they are making great efforts to turn the US Congress into a World Wide Wrestling Federation and the country generally into a World Extreme Fighting league of some sort. Co-optation of 'religion' is a very effective stratagem in that cause.

It doesn't matter that some actually believe in this or another religious faith, their intense desire to control what others do displays a more fundamental psychosis, which malady religion provides (for them) the rationale for relentless endeavor in pursuit of legal enforcement.

It has ever been thus.

Meanwhile, there are not a small number of people who go into the trenches of the deepest poverty and into the heart of the most destitute societies within the poorest countries and try to help feed and treat disease and start regional co-ops and sometimes are murdered when trying to keep the water from being polluted or diverted from a village to an oil well facility, etc. who conduct these efforts out of deeply held conviction of their  religious faith, and their interpretation of its tenets.

Boring headlines that latter reality would make, which is why we never hear of it, and instantly presume that anyone who believes in a 'higher power' must be just like the nutjob TV/radio evangelist or, even worse, like a US or state congressperson.






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RE: Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 5:16:03 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I think many people confuse religion with faith.

I tend not to describe Myself as a religious person.  Religion, as an institution, most certainly does get screwed up, because frankly, as soon as you get fallible human beings into the mix, they tend to mix the whole thing up.

Instead, faith is something that is more focused on what I believe between Myself and My God.  I don't invite most people into it and I don't feel the need to mess with other people's.  Frankly, I don't often understand why people have a problem with someone else's faith.  If that's what I call that helps to lead Me on the path to attempting to become a better person, why should that bother anybody else?

Yes.  Other people have done things, supposedly in the name of faith that were pretty fucked up.  Fine, but that wasn't Me.  There is no "group" of any category that you can't say the same about, so how about sometimes forget the "groups" and try to look at people as individuals?


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RE: Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 5:55:19 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think many people confuse religion with faith.

I think a lot of people have a very peculiar notion of what they are pleased to call "religion" based on the one (or few) to which they've been exposed, which is often only a particular subset of that religious grouping, but by which they then gratuitously stereotype ALL religion, thus establishing that they don't know what they're talking about.

K.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 7:47:24 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think many people confuse religion with faith.

I think a lot of people have a very peculiar notion of what they are pleased to call "religion" based on the one (or few) to which they've been exposed, which is often only a particular subset of that religious grouping, but by which they then gratuitously stereotype ALL religion, thus establishing that they don't know what they're talking about.

K.


I think coming up with a definition for religion based on the people around you who claim to be religious is normal and healthy. It may not give you the best information, but perception is a key learning device...

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 7:52:15 PM   
JeffBC


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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		In my world..

Spirituality is the relationship between and individual and the divine... in whatever way they register "divine". Generally, I find myself liking people who are highly spiritual.. even the "woo woo" people who chant to the 4 guardians. There's something about a spiritual person that resonates with me.

Religion is the institution of spirituality. It is spirituality turned into government. Generally, I dislike religious people. Generally, I find them dogmatic, uneducated, and hateful.

In other words, the works of <insert god analog here> are cool with me. The works of man are not.

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 8:26:26 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
In other words, the works of <insert god analog here> are cool with me. The works of man are not.


How do you tell the difference?

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 8:31:23 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
In other words, the works of <insert god analog here> are cool with me. The works of man are not.


How do you tell the difference?


Tree=works of <insert god analog here>
Rock, ditto
animal, same
bible/koran/torah/I ching/principea discordia=works of man

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 11:23:39 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
I think a lot of people have a very peculiar notion of what they are pleased to call "religion" based on the one (or few) to which they've been exposed, which is often only a particular subset of that religious grouping, but by which they then gratuitously stereotype ALL religion, thus establishing that they don't know what they're talking about.


I think coming up with a definition for religion based on the people around you who claim to be religious is normal and healthy. It may not give you the best information, but perception is a key learning device...

Well I have to admit that for some people not knowing what they're talking about, and not caring, does seem to be normal.

K.

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/12/2012 11:59:17 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
I think a lot of people have a very peculiar notion of what they are pleased to call "religion" based on the one (or few) to which they've been exposed, which is often only a particular subset of that religious grouping, but by which they then gratuitously stereotype ALL religion, thus establishing that they don't know what they're talking about.


I think coming up with a definition for religion based on the people around you who claim to be religious is normal and healthy. It may not give you the best information, but perception is a key learning device...

Well I have to admit that for some people not knowing what they're talking about, and not caring, does seem to be normal.

K.


Touche'
But what I was pointing out is that many words are used out of context to the point that they change in meaning. For example, growing up Nerd was an insult. It originally meant boring, square person, then it started to refer to folks who were book smart but not people smart. Now it refers to being book smart, and especially computer smart, and is used as a complement in some circles.
At the same time, often a group that wants to claim a word can do so by being vocal and blatant enough about it. I think that is the case with religion in the US. The "christian right," has claimed ownership of religion in the US, and is often heard doubting the faith of anyone who disagrees with their politics. Is there any wonder that anyone who is raised in that environment would come to define "christian," as a member of the christian right? After all, if folks around you tell you that Obama is a Muslim, and that the entire progressive caucus are communists, and therefore not christian, then clearly the only christians are the religious right, right?

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/13/2012 12:09:41 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

The "christian right," has claimed ownership of religion in the US... Is there any wonder that anyone who is raised in that environment would come to define "christian," as a member of the christian right?

...and the Christian Right as the representing the whole of religion? Yes, it's a fucking wonder. The only people who think like that ARE the Christian Right. And even THEY can't say that they've never heard of any OTHER religion.

K.

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/13/2012 12:19:11 AM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		Read a few of Ben Bova's books, especially the ones about the moon and Mars.................they MAY be a little biased and over the top but from what I can seen in a few places at this time, they have a horrible ring of truth about where the religious right is heading. It's quite terrifying really and should give anybody with half a brain, pause to think.

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/13/2012 12:32:20 AM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Read a few of Ben Bova's books, especially the ones about the moon and Mars.................they MAY be a little biased and over the top but from what I can seen in a few places at this time, they have a horrible ring of truth about where the religious right is heading. It's quite terrifying really and should give anybody with half a brain, pause to think.

Absolutely. Totalitarianism is terrifying regardless of its costume...

Whether it's in the name of Christ, or National Security, or some utopian political fantasy is mere detail.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/13/2012 12:33:57 AM >

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/13/2012 12:46:57 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		I'll stereotype and judge all I want...religion is sin. Here is the truth:

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

"It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes.

"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."

Thomas Payne

In 1636 Roger Williams founded Providence and Rhode Island because his fellow Christians banished him from Massachusetts. Why? Because of his "new and dangerous opinions" calling for religious and political freedoms, including separation of church and state. Providence then became a haven for many other colonists fleeing religious intolerance.

Just a few years later in 1646, the Massachusetts general court approved a law that made religious heresy punishable by death! In 1692 hysteria grips Salem, Massachusetts as suspects accused of witchcraft got arrested and imprisoned. These religious Puritans accused one-hundred-fifty people of their own citizens and they executed twenty of them. (at least partially capitalist...they 'stole' their land)

In 1700, Massachusetts passes a law ordering all Roman Catholic priests to leave the colony within three months upon penalty of life imprisonment or execution (New York passes a similar law). In 1702 in Maryland, the Anglican Church gets established as the official church. In 1706 South Carolina also established the Anglican Church as its official church.

Wars, pestilential, imprisonment, violence, censure, extortion, the corrupt power of life and death..that's 'religion.'

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/13/2012 12:56:39 AM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I'll stereotype and judge all I want...religion is sin.

Sin, eh? Now that's funny!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

"National institutions of churches" are national institutions of churches. The subject is religion. Conflating the two is a category error.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

"It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes."

Interestingly enough, Gnosticism happens to be a religion that agrees with that.

K.

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/13/2012 3:57:24 PM   
DaKid8


Posts: 24
Joined: 6/3/2009
Status: offline 		Wow. I am surprised nobody else likes religion either.

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/13/2012 5:07:41 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

Religious people do great things.
Nonreligious people do great things.

Religious people lead ordinary lives.
Nonreligious people lead ordinary lives.

Religious people do atrocious things.
Nonreligious people do atrocious things.

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/13/2012 5:14:00 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		People are assholes, religion is just paperwork.

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RE: Religion is bad - 4/13/2012 6:46:21 PM   
justasubslut


Posts: 23
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Status: offline 		FR
To quote Ghandi......I like your Christ, I do not like your christians. They are so unlike your Christ.

But the bottom line is religion is nothing more than big business using religious "rights" for business loopholes. The BIGGEST business on this planet.

Faith is a daily, moment by moment thing. Driving 70-90 MPH on a six lane interstate surrounded by hundreds of drivers, having faith that they are paying attention to what they are doing. There is some real faith for you.

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