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RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/13/2012 3:29:24 PM

thishereboi

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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

No, in fact I got the impression that Cory Booker was a conservative, and I wouldn't have been surprised if he had been, nor would it have changed the context of the post, I didn't' read the article, I read the post, which didn't' mention Booker's party affiliation.

from the op

"Like a true "Commie-Socialist-Liberal", he risked his life to save another person, not worrying about "what's in it for me?". "

and

"unlike an Ayn Randian Libertarian/Conservative:"

maybe you should reread that post, it's pretty clear.

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Post #: 21

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/13/2012 9:51:00 PM

tweakabelle

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I'm not sure that it is helpful to personalise the question of whether altruism is a useful fundamental value as per the OP.

However I feel that a discussion of the merits and demerits of altruism as a fundamental value could be productive and enlightening, especially when one considers how fashionable Rand's views are in certain quarters at the moment.

Can we have that discussion here or should I start another thread?

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Post #: 22

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/13/2012 10:38:44 PM

Kirata

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Joined: 2/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

What is the difference between allowing someone to burn to death in front of you and allowing someone to starve to death out of sight, if you can prevent either?

I can actually tell you that, what the difference is, it's a firmly established phenomena in social psychology: in the former instance, people are watching you.

Altruistic behavior is difficult to nail down because it is subject to contaminating reward-seeking factors. However, what we might call "purely" altruistic behavior is simply empathy in action. And empathy requires (by definition, empathy is) a sharing of emotions. We can read in the newspaper that people are starving somewhere, and then turn to the sports section. But we cry at the movies, because we've become emotionally engaged. It's the emotional connection that matters, not whether somebody is watching.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/13/2012 10:46:30 PM >

(in reply to xssve)

Post #: 23

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/13/2012 11:01:32 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I'm not sure that it is helpful to personalise the question of whether altruism is a useful fundamental value as per the OP.

However I feel that a discussion of the merits and demerits of altruism as a fundamental value could be productive and enlightening, especially when one considers how fashionable Rand's views are in certain quarters at the moment.

Can we have that discussion here or should I start another thread?

I vote another thread, aptly titled. The OP pretty much polluted the discussion of either the heroic deed or altruism on their own by a politically contorted mangling of the two, the dialectical equivalent of a Star Trek transporter room accident, if you will. No one interested in a discussion of altruism would have the faintest idea that would be going here from the topic title.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/13/2012 11:08:23 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 24

Altruism, Altruism, and Altruism - 4/13/2012 11:26:50 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

No one interested in a discussion of altruism would have the faintest idea that would be going here from the topic title.

K.

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 25

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/13/2012 11:44:32 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
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From: Sydney Australia
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Thanks for your opinion Edwynn.

For those who are interested, I have taken Edwynn's advice and started another thread called 'Ayn Rand and altruism'.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4089785/tm.htm

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Post #: 26

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/14/2012 4:07:29 AM

Fightdirecto

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Joined: 8/3/2004
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Everyone -

My apologies for what should be best described as a "rant". I participate in similar Forums on other websites and had been the recipiant of a large ration of crap on more than one of them because I describe myself as socially "Liberal" and a registered Democrat. As a result of that self-description, I have been told in just the past 24 hours that I am anti-American, anti-Christian, an idiot, a moron, a traitor to my country and (my favorite) "you should be stood up against a wall and shot".

So when I saw the story about the man risking his life to save another, I thought of all the Randians I've been encountering lately and used this incident in part to vent.

My apologies.

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(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 27

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/14/2012 5:00:43 AM

thishereboi

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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Everyone -

My apologies for what should be best described as a "rant". I participate in similar Forums on other websites and had been the recipiant of a large ration of crap on more than one of them because I describe myself as socially "Liberal" and a registered Democrat. As a result of that self-description, I have been told in just the past 24 hours that I am anti-American, anti-Christian, an idiot, a moron, a traitor to my country and (my favorite) "you should be stood up against a wall and shot".

So when I saw the story about the man risking his life to save another, I thought of all the Randians I've been encountering lately and used this incident in part to vent.

My apologies.

As a conservative (racist, ignorant, don't care about anyone but myself) christian (ignorant, delusional, shoving my religion down everyones throat) lesbian (how can you be conservative you must be stupid or a traitor) on these forums I can totally understand your desire to lash out.

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Post #: 28

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/14/2012 2:05:26 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

Everyone -

My apologies for what should be best described as a "rant". I participate in similar Forums on other websites and had been the recipiant of a large ration of crap on more than one of them because I describe myself as socially "Liberal" and a registered Democrat. As a result of that self-description, I have been told in just the past 24 hours that I am anti-American, anti-Christian, an idiot, a moron, a traitor to my country and (my favorite) "you should be stood up against a wall and shot".

So when I saw the story about the man risking his life to save another, I thought of all the Randians I've been encountering lately and used this incident in part to vent.

My apologies.

Thus you were angry and lashed out. Completely understandable. I've done it myself many times and I dare say that you and I are far from alone... in fact I am absolutely certain of it.

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Post #: 29

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/14/2012 4:32:38 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

Then you don't believe that one should be held accountable for he words that come out of ones mouth?

How in the hell do you derive this nonsense from what I said?

quote:

If you don't then ok, we'll stop paying any attention to you

[Emphasis mine] Who else do you speak for?

quote:

- if you do then anything that follows is more sophistry in defense of an indefensible proposition.

How does that follow?

quote:

If you identify with a particular philosophy,and somebody says something understood to be representative of that philosophy, and you don't argue the point, you're endorsing it.

Bullshit. Pure unadulterated, "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality, bullshit.

quote:

Back to the subject, both people are in danger of untimely death due to particular circumstances, both are preventable - how is one any different than the other? Tell me.

More sophistry, there is no "false equivalency", the situations are exactly the same in principle, they only differ in detail.

No they are not the same in principle. In the case of Booker, his acting involved an immediate personal risk to himself, whereas a doctor treating a cancer patient is not risking himself... nor are those paying for the treatment.

quote:

I suppose, by the same token abortion is murder, while dropping bombs on Muslim babies is just "breaking eggs".

It's an entirely valid point, and if pointing it out hurts somebody's wittow feewers, then they need to grow the fuck up.

There is nothing valid about it at all. You are just grousing and the obvious anger and hatred you are displaying demonstrates that it is you who needs to grow up.

quote:

No pain, no gain - hearing a bunch of smug, asses prate about altruism while their fucking noses are buried in the public trough gives me a fucking pain, and since they have no respect for my feelings, it makes me feel better to call them on that bullshit, I cannot with a clear conscience endorse letting them slide on that shit, it's become a serious problem trying to have it both ways, and looks a lot like they may well have screwed the fucking pooch but good in doing it, so save it.

So what are you bitching at me about it for?

quote:

Being poised on the brink of mutual assured destruction, and pulling out a win-win is diplomacy, what you're talking about is appeasement, grow a pair or bend the fuck over.

You definitely need to grow up.

Exactly what am I advocating appeasement of?

The problem here is that you have read into my post things that are not there based upon your own biases, compared this fictional position you've assigned to me with your own, conclude that yours is the morally superior position (surprise, surprise, surprise) and then proceeded to get all pissy. Well, you're not the only one.

Pay attention because this is important. My response to the OP had nothing to do with any political position or philosophy. It had to do with what I saw as the sullying of a noble deed by turning it into a political rant that questioned how others would react in a similar situation when the truth is we have no way of knowing how anyone would react until they themselves were in a similar situation.

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Post #: 30

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/14/2012 4:40:39 PM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
As a conservative (racist, ignorant, don't care about anyone but myself) christian (ignorant, delusional, shoving my religion down everyones throat) lesbian (how can you be conservative you must be stupid or a traitor) on these forums I can totally understand your desire to lash out.

Maybe if you didn't spend so much time and effort concern and tone trolling people would be nicer to you.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 31

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/14/2012 4:47:34 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
As a conservative (racist, ignorant, don't care about anyone but myself) christian (ignorant, delusional, shoving my religion down everyones throat) lesbian (how can you be conservative you must be stupid or a traitor) on these forums I can totally understand your desire to lash out.

Maybe if you didn't spend so much time and effort concern and tone trolling people would be nicer to you.

You seriously believe that people on these forums are going to stop bitching about repubs and painting them all as racists and ignorant assholes if I stop pointing out the bigots? Wow, I didn't realize I had that kind of power over people.

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Post #: 32

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/14/2012 8:38:00 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
As a conservative (racist, ignorant, don't care about anyone but myself) christian (ignorant, delusional, shoving my religion down everyones throat) lesbian (how can you be conservative you must be stupid or a traitor) on these forums I can totally understand your desire to lash out.

Maybe if you didn't spend so much time and effort concern and tone trolling people would be nicer to you.

You seriously believe that people on these forums are going to stop bitching about repubs and painting them all as racists and ignorant assholes if I stop pointing out the bigots? Wow, I didn't realize I had that kind of power over people.

No troll, I wrote that if you'd stopped trolling, thanks for admitting it BTW, people would stop being so mean to you personally.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 33

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/15/2012 8:50:57 AM

thishereboi

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So pointing out bigots is now trolling. What about calling people racist? Is that trolling also? Or is it only trolling when the poster is on the right of the political fence?

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 34

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/15/2012 9:45:36 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Everyone -

My apologies for what should be best described as a "rant". I participate in similar Forums on other websites and had been the recipiant of a large ration of crap on more than one of them because I describe myself as socially "Liberal" and a registered Democrat. As a result of that self-description, I have been told in just the past 24 hours that I am anti-American, anti-Christian, an idiot, a moron, a traitor to my country and (my favorite) "you should be stood up against a wall and shot".

So when I saw the story about the man risking his life to save another, I thought of all the Randians I've been encountering lately and used this incident in part to vent.

My apologies.

As a conservative (racist, ignorant, don't care about anyone but myself) christian (ignorant, delusional, shoving my religion down everyones throat) lesbian (how can you be conservative you must be stupid or a traitor) on these forums I can totally understand your desire to lash out.

Has anyone on there boards called you any of those things?(answer....no)

Clueless comes to mind and a few of it`s synonyms......but none of the things you listed.

Now if as a conservative you admire and defend those qualities.......that cause folks to call (a few cons on these boards,not you)conservative leaders those negative names,then you (or anyone)deserve to be called those things too.

But you`re shtick isn`t race-baiting games like rich or using code words for bigotry like "traditional family".........your thing is to whine about how severely we harsh republicans and how un-fair we seem when we do.Boo hoo hoo.....

The basic rant...that we shouldn`t broad-brush everyone who`s conservative.

But we rarely do.....if ever.....

What we do...is read the news and talk about what actual people are actually doing in real time and yes.....it sounds pretty bad b/c honey......it is pretty fuck`n bad.

We aren`t speculating,we aren`t throwing out nasty hypotheticals,we aren`t making up shit or telling/retelling false stories.We are discussing actual,real events that impact actual real people that actually happened.

But you never seem to have anything to say to defend your party`s awful leadership or a counter point.Not even examples of fucked up conduct by liberals.

Rarely,anything at all having to do with the topic.......just whine whine whine.....

All we get from you is some notion that conservatives couldn`t really be all that bad or do that much damage......

So fucking wrong.

Just to be absolutely crystal clear....the liberals/moderates/normal folks (on this forum anyway) don`t use words like bigot,racist,anti-woman,hater,etc....for people who are not those things.But are not afraid to use them for people do have those qualities.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/15/2012 9:52:19 AM >

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Post #: 35

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/15/2012 10:37:52 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

So pointing out bigots is now trolling. What about calling people racist? Is that trolling also? Or is it only trolling when the poster is on the right of the political fence?

You troll. Your posts never add to the discussion but instead are ad hominen and/or attempts to derail. That's trolling.

Just this weekend you whined about people calling Allen West stupid to deflect attention away from his McCarthyist statements and derailed this very valid discussion of RW venom against leftists.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 36

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/15/2012 10:44:26 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

The basic rant...that we shouldn`t broad-brush everyone who`s conservative.

But we rarely do.....if ever.....

Of course you don't....

I am sure you have love in your heart every time you talk about those evil cons.

ORIGINAL: Owner59
That`s typical of the con mindset and why the president will win in Nov.

Can`t wait for when the clueless cons whine about woman and African Americans joining the democrats and shunning the GOP.......

So are cons simply defending Zimmerman because normal regular people(liberals) want an investigation?

Well,...it only confirms that cons are out of touch and would rather impose their POVs on women than have a discussion with women about woman`s health and their bodies.

end quotes

now I think we have highjacked this thread enough. Your comments are easy to find and I doubt most people on the board have a memory problem.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 4/15/2012 10:46:30 AM >

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Post #: 37

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/15/2012 12:59:09 PM

Moonhead

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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I am sure you have love in your heart every time you talk about those evil cons.

So, were you complaining about certain posters tarring teh eeeevil liberals with an even wider brush, or are you cool with that?
Demands for unilateral fairness are just a particularly obnoxious form of special pleading as a rule. It's not like you've even been that shy about making generalisations about liberals yourself, come to that...

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Post #: 38

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/16/2012 6:05:18 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
As a conservative (racist, ignorant, don't care about anyone but myself) christian (ignorant, delusional, shoving my religion down everyones throat) lesbian (how can you be conservative you must be stupid or a traitor) on these forums I can totally understand your desire to lash out.

Maybe if you didn't spend so much time and effort concern and tone trolling people would be nicer to you.

You seriously believe that people on these forums are going to stop bitching about repubs and painting them all as racists and ignorant assholes if I stop pointing out the bigots? Wow, I didn't realize I had that kind of power over people.

No troll, I wrote that if you'd stopped trolling, thanks for admitting it BTW, people would stop being so mean to you personally.

Sorry but calling someone a Troll on these boards is ridiculous. And doing it and couching yourself as a Liberal is even worse. It is a free expression of ideas. You can read them or pass them over or comment to any one of them. What you shouldn't do is belittle them for commenting in the first place since the act is tthe same one you do.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 39

RE: What more can you expect from a "Commie-Social... - 4/16/2012 7:56:19 AM

VideoAdminGamma

Posts: 2233
Status: offline

Fast reply

Please stay on topic, I do not want to hand out anymore gold letters and time outs, but I will if it persists. You guys have been doing so good taking care of things yourself, and to allow these off topic comments about each other to spoil that is pretty bad.

Thank you for being a part of CollarMe,
VideoAdminGamma

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Post #: 40

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