The 1% and the Old Testament (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 5:31:32 PM)

the Prophet Amos, whom God appointed to tell the Israelites to stop letting the wealthiest few prosper at the hands of the poorest. This was not a popular message as it came at a time when Israel was doing fairly well. Amos also told them to prepare themselves for judgement, especially from a foreign nation.



Amos 9:13-15

"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains and flow from all the hills, 
and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.

"They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; 
they will make gardens and eat their fruit. 
I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them," says the LORD your God."

The 1% are primarily Republican and Republicans claim to be more religious..........butbutbut




Kirata -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 5:39:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

"They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; 
they will make gardens and eat their fruit. 
I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them," says the LORD your God."

The 1% are primarily Republican and Republicans claim to be more religious..........butbutbut

But but but... the Republican Party, and the Christian Right in particular, are Israel's staunchest supporters.

K.




thishereboi -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 5:51:02 PM)

Just out of curiousity. Do you consider John Kerry part of the 1%? How about Jay Rockefeller or Mark Warner? Jared Polis? Frank Lautenberg? Are they part of the 1% because I am pretty sure they have a D after their name. Or maybe Dianne Feinstein or Richard Blumenthal? Do they count?

And what about the actors and actresses? Would Rosie fall into that 1%? Pretty sure she is sitting on a pile of money and I doubt she is on the repub side. What about Barbra Streisand? She was going to leave the country if Bush was elected, does she count as one of the 1%?

Just curious. I keep hearing about the 1% but no one has ever said exactly how much money you have to have to qualify.




Hillwilliam -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 5:53:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Just out of curiousity. Do you consider John Kerry part of the 1%? How about Jay Rockefeller or Mark Warner? Jared Polis? Frank Lautenberg? Are they part of the 1% because I am pretty sure they have a D after their name. Or maybe Dianne Feinstein or Richard Blumenthal? Do they count?

And what about the actors and actresses? Would Rosie fall into that 1%? Pretty sure she is sitting on a pile of money and I doubt she is on the repub side. What about Barbra Streisand? She was going to leave the country if Bush was elected, does she count as one of the 1%?

Just curious. I keep hearing about the 1% but no one has ever said exactly how much money you have to have to qualify.

Yes I do, boi. I also consider Bill Gates, Opry Windbag, Steve Wozniac and several others. You do have to admit, though that a vast majority of the wealth, especially the so-called old money, is sequestered with families that vote hardcore R.




thishereboi -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 5:56:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Just out of curiousity. Do you consider John Kerry part of the 1%? How about Jay Rockefeller or Mark Warner? Jared Polis? Frank Lautenberg? Are they part of the 1% because I am pretty sure they have a D after their name. Or maybe Dianne Feinstein or Richard Blumenthal? Do they count?

And what about the actors and actresses? Would Rosie fall into that 1%? Pretty sure she is sitting on a pile of money and I doubt she is on the repub side. What about Barbra Streisand? She was going to leave the country if Bush was elected, does she count as one of the 1%?

Just curious. I keep hearing about the 1% but no one has ever said exactly how much money you have to have to qualify.

Yes I do, boi. I also consider Bill Gates, Opry Windbag, Steve Wozniac and several others. You do have to admit, though that a vast majority of the wealth, especially the so-called old money, is sequestered with families that vote hardcore R.



I wouldn't have to admit that until I saw some kind of proof that it was true. So far I haven't. Did you have a link?




Hillwilliam -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 6:07:11 PM)

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/income-and-voting/





thishereboi -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 6:27:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/income-and-voting/





thanks for the link. Did you follow the one to the exit polls that he mentioned.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/US/H/00/epolls.0.html

It shows the vote by income about 1/2 way down. Out of those making over 200,000 the numbers were...democrats 45% and repubs 53% (not sure where the other 2 % went) those making 150-200,000 democrats 47% and repubs 51%


Sorry, but I still am not seeing the majority being on either side.




Kirata -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 6:39:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Sorry, but I still am not seeing the majority being on either side.

It tends to vary depending on what data you use and in particular where you make the income cutoff. Case in point:

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/10/13/the-rich-support-mccain-the-super-rich-support-obama/

K.




Owner59 -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 6:40:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

"They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; 
they will make gardens and eat their fruit. 
I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them," says the LORD your God."

The 1% are primarily Republican and Republicans claim to be more religious..........butbutbut

But but but... the Republican Party, and the Christian Right in particular, are Israel's staunchest supporters.

K.




Yep.....if one calls hoping for Israel`s total distruction........in hopes that it brings on "the 2nd coming" if Jesus.....staunch support.[8|]




Kirata -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 7:00:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Yep.....if one calls hoping for Israel`s total distruction........in hopes that it brings on "the 2nd coming" if Jesus.....staunch support.[8|]

That's exactly right. And between them and the equally crazy "Eretz Israel" Jews who are delighted to accept their money because they happen to believe that the outcome will not be what the Christians think, we've got a regular fucking rabble of End Times zealots trying to drive us toward WWIII.

K.




Anaxagoras -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 7:35:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Yep.....if one calls hoping for Israel`s total distruction........in hopes that it brings on "the 2nd coming" if Jesus.....staunch support.[8|]

That's exactly right. And between them and the equally crazy "Eretz Israel" Jews who are delighted to accept their money because they happen to believe that the outcome will not be what the Christians think, we've got a regular fucking rabble of End Times zealots trying to drive us toward WWIII.

K.


Tell me, are you some sort of supersessionist with all your Gibson-esque talk of "crazy Jews". I note your continued "appreciation" of religion and Isra-bashing, where bizarrely enough you even asserted that Israel wanted to perpetuate a nuclear Holocaust on Iran a few threads ago, echoing the demented raving of ex-Waffen SS Gunter Grass at a recent Jewish holiday, so you do sound like one of those strange "Christ at the Checkpoint" types http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=2221 that disapproves of Christian Zionism. The vast majority of Christian Zionists are not end of times sorts but those that recognise (a la the Catholic Church) the appalling destruction Christian doctrine visited on the Jews for a millennia climaxing with the Holocaust. I look forward to an extremely entertaining exchange of ideas with you on this matter. [:D]




Anaxagoras -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 8:15:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
the Prophet Amos, whom God appointed to tell the Israelites to stop letting the wealthiest few prosper at the hands of the poorest. This was not a popular message as it came at a time when Israel was doing fairly well. Amos also told them to prepare themselves for judgement, especially from a foreign nation.

Amos 9:13-15

"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains and flow from all the hills, 
and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.

"They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; 
they will make gardens and eat their fruit. 
I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them," says the LORD your God."

I get the the planter overtaking the treader of grapes bit [the latter being the seller presumably] arguably applying to the 1% but the quoted passage seems to suggest the Jews may be in exile, doing badly etc. It sounds like a different message unless another verse clarifies it but I may be missing something... [which is very possible.]




dcnovice -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 8:27:36 PM)

FR

It would also be interesting to know what One-Percenters think of the Hebrew notion of Jubilee or Jesus' Parable of the Vineyard Workers.




Anaxagoras -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 8:39:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
FR

It would also be interesting to know what One-Percenters think of the Hebrew notion of Jubilee or Jesus' Parable of the Vineyard Workers.

To be honest I don't think anyone on the left (e.g. labour unions) or right would go for the Parable of the Vineyard Workers approach... Someone like meself is likely to take advantage of it! [:D] The parable sort of evokes the old practice of confessing/recanting one's sins/acts/beliefs in life at the very end. It seems a bit of a cop-out.




Kirata -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 8:49:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

your Gibson-esque talk of "crazy Jews".

Please provide a link to the post of mine in which that quote appears.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

you even asserted that Israel wanted to perpetuate a nuclear Holocaust on Iran a few threads ago

Please provide a link to the post of mine in which that assertion appears.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

I look forward to an extremely entertaining exchange of ideas with you on this matter.

I look foward to you developing some marginal respect for the truth.

K.




Anaxagoras -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 8:55:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

your Gibson-esque talk of "crazy Jews".

Please provide a link to the post of mine in which that quote appears.

Do try to keep up with your own words on this very thread. ETA: you referred to "crazy "Eretz Israel" Jews" in Post 10. Your observation applies Jews with Zionist views. Jewish people who support Israel are still in the vast majority as recent surveys indicate.

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

you even asserted that Israel wanted to perpetuate a nuclear Holocaust on Iran a few threads ago

Please provide a link to the post of mine in which that assertion appears.

It was one of the recent Iran threads. If it matters really really a huge amount to you, and you are willing to admit that you were a fool for saying such a thing if I prove my assertion correct then I will dig it out for you.

ETA: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4036217 where you suggest Israel could use its nuclear arsenal against Iran: "to make quick work of the business".

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
I look forward to an extremely entertaining exchange of ideas with you on this matter.

I look foward to you developing some marginal respect for the truth.

K.


Oh what witty repartee...




Kirata -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 8:58:56 PM)


Thank you. I believe that makes my point very nicely.

K.




Anaxagoras -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 9:01:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Thank you. I believe that makes my point very nicely.

K.


Bravo sir! [sm=applause.gif]




Musicmystery -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 9:02:49 PM)

quote:

I keep hearing about the 1% but no one has ever said exactly how much money you have to have to qualify.


I have, several times. Apparently, I'm the only one who can get Google. I wonder how they stay in business?

[image]http://www.brimg.net/images/20111024-agi-floor-percentiles.png[/image]

The income thresholds are for the amount of AGI on a return, not per taxpayer.

That means a single filer who made $343,927 or more in 2009 is in the top 1 percentile. A married couple with two kids and combined earnings of $343,927 or more also was among the top earners in the country. The 2009 figures are the latest the IRS has tallied. Filing of returns for tax year 2010 didn't officially close until Oct. 17.

The 1.4 million Americans in the IRS' top taxpayer category in 2009 reported nearly 17 percent of all the country's taxable income. From those filers, the IRS collected $318 billion or almost 37 percent of all the individual taxes paid in 2009.

Where the top isn't that much: For most Americans, making more than $340,000 a year does feel rich. But for residents of high-cost areas, such as much of California, New York or major urban areas, that amount, especially for dual-income families, is not that unusual.

In New York City, where the Occupy Wall Street movement began, the richest 1 percent of households saw their share of all income in the city rise from 12 percent in 1980 to 44 percent in 2007, the last year for which data are available, according to a study by the Fiscal Policy Institute.

Part of the reason for the disparity is that the Big Apple is home to a lot of executives, doctors, lawyers, managers and supervisors who work outside of finance.

Those professions are among the most represented occupations of taxpayers in the top 1 percent of earners between 1979 and 2005, according to a November 2010 academic study of "Jobs and Income Growth of Top Earners and the Causes of Changing Income Inequality."

Other studies, higher incomes: Some other tax calculations require higher incomes before a person can be classified as part of the top 1 percent of earners.

The Tax Policy Center in Washington, D.C., a joint venture of the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution, runs an economic simulation model that shows the top 1 percent of earners in 2009 made $503,086. TPC projects $516,633 as the cutoff for the top earners in 2010 and $532,613 for 2011.

Roberton Williams, senior fellow at the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, says his group's income figures are larger because it "takes a much broader, more comprehensive look at income. We look at income regardless of the source, not just adjusted gross income."

Across-the-board recession: But one trend upon which most income analysts agree is every income level has been affected by the recession.

U.S. Census data show that from 2000 to 2010, median income in the U.S. declined 7 percent. And the outlook for recouping lost earnings isn't good, according to a recent Wall Street Journal survey of economists. The economists told the newspaper they expect inflation-adjusted incomes to rise only 5 percent over the next decade.

"The State of Working America's Wealth," a study by the Economic Policy Institute, or EPI, produced similar bleak income results, especially for lower-income earners.

The Washington, D.C.-based think tank found that from 2007 to 2009, average annualized household wealth declined by 16 percent for the richest fifth of Americans and 25 percent for the rest of the country.

But even with the across-the-board income drops, EPI researchers found that in 2009 the wealthiest 1 percent of U.S. households had net worth that was 225 times greater than the typical median household's net worth.

That disparity, according to EPI, is the highest ratio on record.

And that information might just prompt the Occupy Wall Street participants to add 225 to their 1 percent numerical complaint list.



http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/top-1-percent-earn.aspx
(the figures were complied in July 2011, the latest the IRS has on record)




Louve00 -> RE: The 1% and the Old Testament (4/14/2012 9:10:13 PM)

I kind of wonder what, if any thought, the 1% er's have given to the passage of "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mathew 19:24 KJV You will find that passage in many different versions of the Bible and if you click on the Bible version above the statement, you can find the context or paragraph it was taken from here.




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