RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (Full Version)

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Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 7:52:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

That flies in the face of all logic. The ATF comand post was 1/4 mile from the compound. For a person with a Barrett that is like a 3 in putt. Texas rangers were not invoved in Waco. The survivors were aquitted of all gun charges for lack of evidence. Bradly fighting vehicles were not involved they would be army and the army did not participate. If the Brady people issued that report it is a flat out lie.


Wrong again

The Waco Davidian Standoff
September 1999
By Rick Ross

.

That standoff began February 28th when agents of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) attempted to serve Koresh with a warrant at his Davidian compound outside Waco, Texas. This effort erupted in gunfire. Heavily armed Davidians fired upon federal agents killing four and wounding 16 BATF officers.

Mt. Carmel Burning
After the shootout Koresh refused to leave the enclosure often called "Ranch Apocalypse." The FBI assumed control of the perimeter and conducted negotiations. David Koresh repeatedly broke his promises to come out peacefully. A frustrated and exhausted FBI subsequently attempted to end the standoff by gassing the compound. Koresh, then forced to choose between his compound Kingdom and certain criminal prosecution, opted to end not only of his own life, but that of his followers as well.

This was the tragic end of Koresh's six-year-rule over the once benign Davidian sect, originally founded by an officially excommunicated Seventh Day Adventist named Victor Houteff who died in 1955. David Koresh was a man many mental health experts were inclined to describe as a likely "psychopath."

Koresh's leadership of the Davidians began with violence. A gun battle in 1987 between Koresh (assisted by 7 heavily armed followers) and a rival leader George Roden Jr. led to his trial for attempted murder. But the jury deadlocked and prosecutors chose not to retry Koresh. Texas prosecutor Denise Wilkerson observed at the time that David Koresh "was building an arsenal" and "preparing for a battle with someone."

According to financial records Koresh spent $199,715.00 on weapons and ammunition in the 17 months immediately proceeding the BATF raid on his compound.

The remnants of a huge arsenal was later found after the fire amidst the ruins of the Davidian compound. This stockpile included grenades, gas masks, more than a million rounds of ammunition and at least 40 submachine guns.

Amongst the more than 200 weapons catalogued were:


19 SGW CAR-AR assault submachine guns (three fitted with silencers), nine other silencers

8 hand grenades and at least 31 other grenade parts and fragments, more than 20 pieces and fragments of rockets (apparently used to make rocket-propelled grenades) along with 1 sight for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

3 Israeli-made IMI Galil assault rifles

10 Ruger Mini-14 assault rifles (one with a mounted scope)

A barrel for a M60 machine gun

1 30 mm rocket shell

9 FAL assault rifles (three mounted on bipods)

At least 54 AK-47 or AKS assault rifles (some converted to fully automatic submachine guns)

11 .12-gauge shotguns (one with a sawed-off barrel)

Dozens of pistols

Dozens of barrels for M-16s, AR-15s and other weapons

Gas masks and one chemical warfare suit

Several Kevlar tactical vests and other body armor and eight Kevlar helmets.
Also found were lathes, milling equipment and other tooling machinery, which essentially substantiated the suspicions of authorities, who believed that Koresh and the Davidians were engaged in the illegal conversion of assault rifles to automatic weapons and the manufacture of crude "grease guns."

Six surviving Branch Davidians were subsequently convicted of voluntary manslaughter and/or using a firearm in a violent crime. Two Davidians were also convicted on related weapons charges.

Four Davidians were sentenced to 10 years for voluntary manslaughter, one to 30 years for using a firearm in a violent crime. A sentence of 20 years was given to another Davidian for possessing a grenade and using a firearm in a violent crime. And one Davidian was sentenced to 15 years for possessing and conspiring to possess machine guns.

Six Davidians were ordered to pay fines and $1.3 million in restitution to the slain BATF agents' families and the government.

In 1997 the Supreme Court rejected the appeals of six Davidians, effectively ending their appeal process





Moonhead -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 7:54:42 AM)

What's a "likely" psychopath? Either you are prone to antisocial personality disorder or you're not. You don't just wake up one morning and become a sociopath.




RemoteUser -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 7:55:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

What's a "likely" psychopath? Either you are prone to antisocial personality disorder or you're not. You don't just wake up one morning and become a sociopath.


Have you seen me without coffee?




cuckoldmepls -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 8:00:59 AM)

It's not under attack in Okla. We just passed an open carry law waiting for the governor's signature. You ppl are so brainwashed you can't even remember the day when ppl carried rifles in the back windows of their pickup trucks and carried holsters and no one thought twice about it.




Moonhead -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 8:02:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

What's a "likely" psychopath? Either you are prone to antisocial personality disorder or you're not. You don't just wake up one morning and become a sociopath.


Have you seen me without coffee?

Point taken.
[:D]




Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 8:06:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

That flies in the face of all logic. The ATF comand post was 1/4 mile from the compound. For a person with a Barrett that is like a 3 in putt. Texas rangers were not invoved in Waco. The survivors were aquitted of all gun charges for lack of evidence. Bradly fighting vehicles were not involved they would be army and the army did not participate. If the Brady people issued that report it is a flat out lie.

Wrong again and again

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-701-8-s&sz=all&va=waco+texas+siege

There are several pictures of Bradlys, also M113 and M60 Engineer Vehicles




Hillwilliam -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 8:47:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

That flies in the face of all logic. The ATF comand post was 1/4 mile from the compound. For a person with a Barrett that is like a 3 in putt. Texas rangers were not invoved in Waco. The survivors were aquitted of all gun charges for lack of evidence. Bradly fighting vehicles were not involved they would be army and the army did not participate. If the Brady people issued that report it is a flat out lie.

Wrong again and again

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-701-8-s&sz=all&va=waco+texas+siege

There are several pictures of Bradlys, also M113 and M60 Engineer Vehicles

I didn't see any Bradleys. Mind pointing them out?




Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 9:12:49 AM)

How about this one?


http://militantlibertarian.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Waco-ATC.jpg





lovmuffin -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 9:52:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And none of this is even remotly related to self defense or stand your ground.

Only in the connection that a sane gun law would make private ownership of .50 caliber rifles & machine guns illegal as you don't require them to "stand your ground" or for self-defense from a burglar or a mugger.



The second amendment wasn't intended for burglars and muggers. Thats just a side benefit.




BamaD -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 3:10:59 PM)

Lovmuffin you got it right again.




mnottertail -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 3:11:41 PM)

And you got it wrong.  it is lovmuffin (no e)





BamaD -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 3:28:53 PM)

I remember that well, many of those pickup trucks wereon my high schoolparking lot back in the 60's.




BamaD -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 3:37:29 PM)

I notice that each time a leftest lists the weapons the Davidians had it gets bigger. Also the list of convictions did not include anything about the original charges all were things that happened during the siege. For those who did not see my early posts on this I stated right off that I thought the Davidians were nuts.
However the Government overplayed it's hand tried to grandstand, changed it's story on an almost daily basis, attempted to ilegally include the military in a domestic situation and then proceeded to try to convince us that every thing they did was open and above board by the time they got done no resonable person could accept anything they said at face value.

Their ineptitute and deseption does not make the Davidians good guys, doesn't even make them decent people but you people have to see that the government screwed this one up big time.




BamaD -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 3:38:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And you got it wrong.  it is lovmuffin (no e)



I have stated on numerous occasions that I can't type




lovmuffin -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 4:54:14 PM)

It's lovmuffin with an (e) is correct. I got it wrong with a typo to begin with and now I'm stuck with it.....[8D]

So BamaD got it right again.




thompsonx -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 5:00:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I remember that well, many of those pickup trucks wereon my high schoolparking lot back in the 60's.



Where did you go to highschool? I know of no jurisdiction in the u.s. (in the 60's)where high schoolers were allowed to bring firearms on campus without prior appropriate notice and the corresponding authority.




thompsonx -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 5:02:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

It's lovmuffin with an (e) is correct. I got it wrong with a typo to begin with and now I'm stuck with it.....[8D]

So BamaD got it right again.


It would appear that you and he have some sort of esp connection going on.




thompsonx -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 5:10:09 PM)

quote:

Amongst the more than 200 weapons catalogued were:


19 SGW CAR-AR assault submachine guns (three fitted with silencers), nine other silencers

8 hand grenades and at least 31 other grenade parts and fragments, more than 20 pieces and fragments of rockets (apparently used to make rocket-propelled grenades) along with 1 sight for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

3 Israeli-made IMI Galil assault rifles

10 Ruger Mini-14 assault rifles (one with a mounted scope)

A barrel for a M60 machine gun

1 30 mm rocket shell

9 FAL assault rifles (three mounted on bipods)

At least 54 AK-47 or AKS assault rifles (some converted to fully automatic submachine guns)

11 .12-gauge shotguns (one with a sawed-off barrel)

Dozens of pistols

Dozens of barrels for M-16s, AR-15s and other weapons

Gas masks and one chemical warfare suit

Several Kevlar tactical vests and other body armor and eight Kevlar helmets.
Also found were lathes, milling equipment and other tooling machinery, which essentially substantiated the suspicions of authorities, who believed that Koresh and the Davidians were engaged in the illegal conversion of assault rifles to automatic weapons and the manufacture of crude "grease guns."


What on this list is illegal for an american citizen with no criminal history?




lovmuffin -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 5:11:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I remember that well, many of those pickup trucks wereon my high schoolparking lot back in the 60's.



Where did you go to highschool? I know of no jurisdiction in the u.s. (in the 60's)where high schoolers were allowed to bring firearms on campus without prior appropriate notice and the corresponding authority.



I'm not tellin where I went to school in the 70's but it was common for many of us to bring shotguns in our vehicles so when school let out we could get out in the field faster and have more time to hunt before dark. Though they weren't visible on gun racks, otherwise they would likely get stolen.




thompsonx -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/11/2012 5:15:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I remember that well, many of those pickup trucks wereon my high schoolparking lot back in the 60's.



Where did you go to highschool? I know of no jurisdiction in the u.s. (in the 60's)where high schoolers were allowed to bring firearms on campus without prior appropriate notice and the corresponding authority.



I'm not tellin where I went to school in the 70's but it was common for many of us to bring shotguns in our vehicles so when school let out we could get out in the field faster and have more time to hunt before dark. Though they weren't visible on gun racks, otherwise they would likely get stolen.



Does that mean that I was right? That your high school did not allow firearms to be brought on campus without the proper protocol?




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