RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates

RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/18/2012 7:48:41 PM)
Snark? We ARE in a spiral of ever-increasing costs.

TheHeretic -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/18/2012 7:56:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery We ARE in a spiral of ever-increasing costs. Agreed. I never said we weren't. I already replied that it can get a lot worse. Are you able to retain more than a single element of the concerns I laid out?

Musicmystery -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/18/2012 8:33:25 PM)
Those weren't "concerns." They're a "what if" list that would preclude anything proposed based on speculation and attitude alone.

TheHeretic -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/18/2012 10:59:10 PM)
Why even bother to reply, if denial of consequence is all you have?

Musicmystery -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/19/2012 3:12:22 AM)
Funny...that's what I was thinking of your post.

Real0ne -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/21/2012 2:12:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I suspect laws designed to prevent (international?) sailors from coming off a ship at death's door, being saved in the local hospital, then everybody sailing away on the bill, or leaving a penniless stranger with it aren't going to be sufficient precedent for the changes now under consideration. And yet that is what is happening. People show up at the ER at death's door, then leave without paying the bill. Shipping companys are international commerce. well the state should step in and bill the country they are from charge a handling fee and then reimburse the hospital. really simple solutions that protect rights, errm I mean priviledges and prevents the hospitals from going under all at the same time. so where the hell are the states on these matters?

Real0ne -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/21/2012 2:13:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Snark? We ARE in a spiral of ever-increasing costs. baloney, its ever increasing devaluation (inflation) of the dollar. we did that b4 no need to go over it again.

Real0ne -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/21/2012 2:17:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic This is the first I've heard on those insurance mandates, Tazzy, but the weapons mandate has clear Constitutional foundation. Congress shall organize the militia. I suspect laws designed to prevent (international?) sailors from coming off a ship at death's door, being saved in the local hospital, then everybody sailing away on the bill, or leaving a penniless stranger with it aren't going to be sufficient precedent for the changes now under consideration. well organizing and mandating weapons are 2 different things entirely. I do not remember if it rose to the level of a mandate but they wanted every one capable of shooting a weapon to buy 2 of them. One to use and bury the other and if they could not afford one the government would pick up the tab and supply one for them. probly one of their buddies in the arms biz, it is after all what governemnt since the year 1000 and the norman conquest is all about :D

Musicmystery -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/21/2012 2:27:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Snark? We ARE in a spiral of ever-increasing costs. baloney, its ever increasing devaluation (inflation) of the dollar. we did that b4 no need to go over it again. OK.....the dollar is devaluating much faster for medical costs than for other goods. I wonder how it knows?

Real0ne -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/22/2012 12:56:10 PM)
thats not the dollar, that is price gouging, that is in addition and on top of higher prices as a result of monetary inflation.

Musicmystery -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/22/2012 1:09:37 PM)
Regardless of the cause, the result is....an endless spiral of increasing health care costs. Is there a circle in here?

TheHeretic -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/22/2012 2:15:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Is there a circle in here? No, but there are generally smart people with their fingers in their ears, going, "la-la-la-la-la," and pretending, like a dumb redneck destined for a You-tube moment, that there is no gravity to worry about, because he hasn't fallen off the ladder quite yet.

papassion -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/23/2012 12:14:01 PM)
The poor who have no money (only for drugs and beer) will still have no money for insurance and will still be a drag on hospital costs. And as long as insurance is paying, who will give a shit what is charged? Seems to me, all we need a fixed price scale for health services. Unamerican, but should work. Lots of Doctors probably won't accept the new health care insurance payment scale. Lots of big city Doctors won't accept insurance now. Do you think they will accept Obamacare that pays them even less? What good is a healthcare system with no doctors? The Federal Government owns a peice of GM. If GM sales get slow, do you think the government has the authority under the commerce clause to make everyone buy a Chevrolet? Whats the difference between this and health care?

Moonhead -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/23/2012 12:17:54 PM)
=That was why there was that "single payer" clause in the original Obamacare papers that the Republicans managed to oust because the Kenyan was too much of a pussy to use his veto, if memory serves.

tazzygirl -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/23/2012 12:18:37 PM)
quote: What good is a healthcare system with no doctors? Ah, back to the "They will leave if the law is passed" Thats been cried with almost every medicare change. quote: The Federal Government owns a peice of GM. If GM sales get slow, do you think the government has the authority under the commerce clause to make everyone buy a Chevrolet? Whats the difference between this and health care? Not everyone is required to drive. But everyone accesses health care. There is just one of your differences.

erieangel -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/23/2012 1:34:54 PM)
quote: The Federal Government owns a peice of GM. If GM sales get slow, do you think the government has the authority under the commerce clause to make everyone buy a Chevrolet? Whats the difference between this and health care? GM is the back to being the biggest selling auto. It was fine in the '80s when Reagan bailed out Chrysler. But since Obama bailed out GM, the republicans have been screaming bloody murder.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Founding fathers voted for health care mandates (4/23/2012 8:26:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel quote: The Federal Government owns a peice of GM. If GM sales get slow, do you think the government has the authority under the commerce clause to make everyone buy a Chevrolet? Whats the difference between this and health care? GM is the back to being the biggest selling auto. It was fine in the '80s when Reagan bailed out Chrysler. But since Obama bailed out GM, the republicans have been screaming bloody murder. http://www.factcheck.org/2011/06/chrysler-paid-in-full/ GM hasn't paid in full yet, either. http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/the-1980-chrysler-bailout/ The 80's bailout wasn't exactly the same as the 00's bailouts. Plus, in '83, Chrysler paid it all back. Roughly 3 years after the bailout, they paid it back. The auto bailouts were started by Bush late in '08. We're past that 3 year mark. GM and Chrysler haven't paid their loans back. I have to add in that I was around 10 when Reagan bailed out Chrysler, so I would neither have paid attention, nor would I have had any opinion on it.

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