RE: As an Aethist sees it...

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Moonhead -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/25/2012 1:23:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel The stories of Jesus and I say stories as opposed to story because we're talking about multiple authors, from a culture where it was common practice not to let historical accuracy get in the way of narrative crafting, pushing their personal positions. To be fair, Constantine did make a point of picking out the Gospels with the least contradictions between them.

Mupainurpleasure -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/25/2012 6:02:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel The stories of Jesus and I say stories as opposed to story because we're talking about multiple authors, from a culture where it was common practice not to let historical accuracy get in the way of narrative crafting, pushing their personal positions. To be fair, Constantine did make a point of picking out the Gospels with the least contradictions between them. and he hedged his bet on dieties... 1.He really straddled the fence religiously, seemingly as polytheistic as the next Roman 2.The Arch of Constantine associates him with pagan divinities only 3.Constantine particularly favors the Sun god, which was popular with the Balkan troops 4.Sol Invictus - the unconquered Sun. Up until 321 Constantine issues coins with images of Sol Invictus 5.Early Christian art sometimes depicts Christ in the the image of the sun god, perhaps because this made the sun god more attractive to Constantine. 6.Constantine was not baptized until shortly before his death (but this was a more common practice then) His christianity is really overstated. When he did get baptized it was into arianism which doent reflect todays christian belief. great ruler, killed hisown son ,not much of a christian but very tolerant of them and wanted to quelch controversy asyou poooint out

Moonhead -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/26/2012 4:42:36 AM)
He thought Christianity was an ideal state religion for an empire that was beginning to show the first signs of collapse. It doesn't follow from that that he believed a word of it or was obliged to practise it himself, particularly if doing so meant that he was merely an Emperor, not a God like his predecessors in the role...

Anaxagoras -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/26/2012 7:40:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead He thought Christianity was an ideal state religion for an empire that was beginning to show the first signs of collapse. It doesn't follow from that that he believed a word of it or was obliged to practise it himself, particularly if doing so meant that he was merely an Emperor, not a God like his predecessors in the role... Was the empire showing signs of collapse that early on? I thought the onset of the end of Rome occurred with the Gothic War a few decades later.

Moonhead -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/26/2012 8:02:04 AM)
It was already on the way down for a long while before that. Gibbon seems to think that the rot went a lot further back than even Constantine, iirc.

GotSteel -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/26/2012 6:13:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead To be fair, Constantine did make a point of picking out the Gospels with the least contradictions between them. I thought that happened at the Synod of Rome some 45 years after his death?

LookieNoNookie -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/26/2012 6:23:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure I find it hard toi connect the mega church right wing evangelicasl movement to the actual teachings of Christ. They seem to draw on bits and piece and go all in on revelations which...may just have been a veiled referenc to caligula and the fear he wasnt really dead and the persecution woould resume( check verify then challenge) Social darwinism, hoardingf of wealth, capitalism almost as a tenet of religon and the constant we don't hate the Sinner but....which is mostly just what everythingafter but is. The high incoidemnce of Right wing evangelicals and NRA, Voter ID support( ignoring the predominately white absentee system where actuialoly fraud was found and focusing on id at polls desspite the Bush DOJ spend millions and finding a coupole dozen cases makes it ludicrous to say it's about protecting the vote not suppressing it) The rapidity they spout of about Sodom and use the english translation of the greek transaltion of the aramaic is ignorance on diusplay. I mean really m two pages later Lot's daughters are getting him drunk and committing incest.... did God really destroy Sodom for it's gayness yet being omnificent save the daughters he knew would be ebgaging in incest? Lebiticus is anothe rone they love spoutung it';s the absoulote word yet ignore the passage on then proper way to sll a daughter into slavery on the same page. They also use todays western culture as a reference which ignores the use of mael rape after battle in mesopetamia as an act of primacy and domination of proisoners not sex..... So, I shake my yhead and think yeah but they believe in the ressurection and the teachings of Christ or do they??? They condemn liberalism , act as if christianity was a conservative capitalist supporting dsmall goverment let the poor help themseolves and starving children i n the next town over is compatible with their extrme wealth in some cases..... Christ was a radical subversive who the state put to death because he was a threat to the conservative status quo, he cndemned wealth, he and the Apostles would of fit in just fine on Wavy gravy's commine . they were to each acording to his needs weren't they? Didnt they share all> the idea he would be pro mega church pastors living in grand estates ignores his attitude toward the pofoiteers and charlatons of the temple. Christianity s great by me I just wish more christiands practiced it..... stepping back I really wish you'd buy a dictionary (and spell checker software). And maybe even read some books. No, really.

Mupainurpleasure -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/26/2012 9:09:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead He thought Christianity was an ideal state religion for an empire that was beginning to show the first signs of collapse. It doesn't follow from that that he believed a word of it or was obliged to practise it himself, particularly if doing so meant that he was merely an Emperor, not a God like his predecessors in the role... Was the empire showing signs of collapse that early on? I thought the onset of the end of Rome occurred with the Gothic War a few decades later. It barely survived the 3rd century. in 270 there were 3 states in the emoir and two claimed the title princeps. palmyra was in the asia minor and Eygyt and the British isles most of gaul and northern hispania a seperate empire and Rome had like 50 rulers in 50yrs after the fallof the severus dnynasty the empire post comeback was as differnet as reppublican and royal france and was taking on feudal charateristics. Ironically by undoing the tetrarchy of Dicoletian Constantine undid many of his repairs but moving the capital ultimately was probably the most signifigant event next to the rise of Islam the next 1000 yrs. No Coinstantinopel we a re all praying 5 times a day. Charles martel stopped small force half a world from Baghda and he is thesavor of the west lol It's like saying Italywon ww1 by invading tyrolia. The eastern empire stopped an onslaught that would of rolled through europe and it was because of the stratigic locale of Constantines city they held it back.

Anaxagoras -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/27/2012 5:32:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead He thought Christianity was an ideal state religion for an empire that was beginning to show the first signs of collapse. It doesn't follow from that that he believed a word of it or was obliged to practise it himself, particularly if doing so meant that he was merely an Emperor, not a God like his predecessors in the role... Was the empire showing signs of collapse that early on? I thought the onset of the end of Rome occurred with the Gothic War a few decades later. It barely survived the 3rd century. in 270 there were 3 states in the emoir and two claimed the title princeps. palmyra was in the asia minor and Eygyt and the British isles most of gaul and northern hispania a seperate empire and Rome had like 50 rulers in 50yrs after the fallof the severus dnynasty the empire post comeback was as differnet as reppublican and royal france and was taking on feudal charateristics. Ironically by undoing the tetrarchy of Dicoletian Constantine undid many of his repairs but moving the capital ultimately was probably the most signifigant event next to the rise of Islam the next 1000 yrs. No Coinstantinopel we a re all praying 5 times a day. Charles martel stopped small force half a world from Baghda and he is thesavor of the west lol It's like saying Italywon ww1 by invading tyrolia. The eastern empire stopped an onslaught that would of rolled through europe and it was because of the stratigic locale of Constantines city they held it back. Indeed the Second Century is regarded as a stable period of growth whilst the Third Century was known for political instability due to the usurpers saw something like 30 in 70 years (if I remember correctly) but my own understanding is that the Empire recovered to a fair extent with the Tetrarchy in the latter part of the century. With the benefit of hindsight it would appear there was a gradual undoing of the Empire from this period but my own view is that that wouldn't have necessarily been a given to Constantine because the Empire had ebbed and flowed with intermittent periods of severe instability at least since Nero was declared a public enemy, and the year of the four emperiors.

Moonhead -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/27/2012 6:10:06 AM)
It recovered a bit, but it still wasn't in very good shape.

Mupainurpleasure -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/27/2012 6:52:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure I find it hard toi connect the mega church right wing evangelicasl movement to the actual teachings of Christ. They seem to draw on bits and piece and go all in on revelations which...may just have been a veiled referenc to caligula and the fear he wasnt really dead and the persecution woould resume( check verify then challenge) Social darwinism, hoardingf of wealth, capitalism almost as a tenet of religon and the constant we don't hate the Sinner but....which is mostly just what everythingafter but is. The high incoidemnce of Right wing evangelicals and NRA, Voter ID support( ignoring the predominately white absentee system where actuialoly fraud was found and focusing on id at polls desspite the Bush DOJ spend millions and finding a coupole dozen cases makes it ludicrous to say it's about protecting the vote not suppressing it) The rapidity they spout of about Sodom and use the english translation of the greek transaltion of the aramaic is ignorance on diusplay. I mean really m two pages later Lot's daughters are getting him drunk and committing incest.... did God really destroy Sodom for it's gayness yet being omnificent save the daughters he knew would be ebgaging in incest? Lebiticus is anothe rone they love spoutung it';s the absoulote word yet ignore the passage on then proper way to sll a daughter into slavery on the same page. They also use todays western culture as a reference which ignores the use of mael rape after battle in mesopetamia as an act of primacy and domination of proisoners not sex..... So, I shake my yhead and think yeah but they believe in the ressurection and the teachings of Christ or do they??? They condemn liberalism , act as if christianity was a conservative capitalist supporting dsmall goverment let the poor help themseolves and starving children i n the next town over is compatible with their extrme wealth in some cases..... Christ was a radical subversive who the state put to death because he was a threat to the conservative status quo, he cndemned wealth, he and the Apostles would of fit in just fine on Wavy gravy's commine . they were to each acording to his needs weren't they? Didnt they share all> the idea he would be pro mega church pastors living in grand estates ignores his attitude toward the pofoiteers and charlatons of the temple. Christianity s great by me I just wish more christiands practiced it..... stepping back I really wish you'd buy a dictionary (and spell checker software). And maybe even read some books. No, really. Dude, your posts speak to just how smart you are. Too all others this man is a paragon of virtue his insight into black racism in the Martin case and the effect of white sympathy on the Obama election speak volumes about his ability to sift through information and reach conclusions. He didnt just go with the flow on walmart. While I was being misled by the number of employees on foodstamps and state health insurance and the leaked memos about forcing higher paid or sick people out the door and the hundreds of millions in fines Walmart paid for breaking labor laws he cut through the smoke and identified it as an easy job. He is that well read and that well informed. I say this openly. His clarity is something I truly admire and I am jealous of the blissfull state such clarity of thought must result in.

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