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wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 8:28:32 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		A dear friend, who has a son in his 20's that has Downs Syndrome, posted this on Facebook, expressing her outrage about the verdict.

Her son is one of the sweetest, kindest people I have ever met. I understand that she feels it is an affront to his existence, but.....

The more I have thought about it, the more I think this was the right verdict. If someone wants to make the choice to not have a child with Downs, and can discover that early enough in the pregnancy to terminate it, they should have that right.

But, I have to admit, I am wrestling with this opinion, and trying to figure out why. I thought I would put it here and get some opinions and thoughts.

quote:

A Portland, Ore. couple was awarded $2.9 million on Friday for the care of their Down syndrome baby, who they argue would not have been born if doctors had not been "negligent” in their pre-natal care.

Ariel and Deborah Levy won their "wrongful birth" suit against Legacy Health System, arguing they chose to continue their pregnancy based on what doctors told them, according to ABC News, and would have terminated it if they had not been assured their baby did not have the genetic condition.

Jurors found five instances of Legacy Health's negligence, including a doctor's finding that the baby had a normal chromosomal profile based on a test that was performed and analyzed incorrectly.

Thirteen weeks into Deborah Levy's pregnancy, according to The Oregonian, her doctor tested a sample of tissue and concluded the baby did not have any chromosomal problems. Even though later tests suggested it might have Down syndrome, doctors assured the family that nothing was wrong.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/parents-awarded-2-9m-wrongful-birth-lawsuit-daughter-born-syndrome-article-1.1037159#ixzz1sgmxY54g


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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 8:36:47 AM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		The couple didn't want to have a special needs child and were given incorrect information. Of course they had a tort. Of course the child will need a lot of medical care as well as support throughout life so the parents may not have had the means to provide that care so suing may have enabled them to provide for their child.

As trisomy goes Down's is at least one that allows the child to reach adulthood. What if it had been trisomy 18 instead of trisomy 21 which is almost always fatal at a very early age?


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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 8:39:56 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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Status: offline 		The thing that bothered me with the discussions on Facebook was folks saying that there is no way the parents can love a child that they would have aborted.

The child is now 4, if I recall correctly, and there is nothing that indicates, to me, that these parents are lying about their love for her, and want to provide her with the best care they can forever.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 8:53:23 AM   
xXLithiumXx


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Status: offline 		I don't know that it's about not wanting to have a special needs child, but about the fact that the doctor tested the wrong tissue, which caused false results of the testing, which could have risked not just the mother, but the child's life in many regards. The fact is, yes, they have a tort, Yes, they have the right to be outraged that the child was tested, which is a stressful event to begin with, but then to have been told that the child was fine and then to later discover that the child will have a possible plethora of medical conditions and a possibly a shorter life span due to the nature of the illness. They have a right to be upset, they have a right to be hurt and angry; They trusted a trained professional with the care and keeping of the mothers life and the life of the unborn child.

Like most, I will say that I think they should count themselves lucky that the child has a disorder that will allow her to live to adulthood.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 8:57:04 AM   
tsatske


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From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		The parents need the money to raise their child. Of course they love their child. Of course I see why other down syndrom parents are offended by the term 'wrongful life', but that term, offensive as it may be, is what the law choses to call these cases. I don't post as much here on the topic as I do in some of my other forums, so y'all might not know how prolife I am. specifically I think abortion is commiting genocyde against those with Downs syndrome, which are sweet, loving children who add a lot to our planet. But I see nothing wrong with this story. Both the parents who sued and your friends who got upset can use our simple support.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 8:59:54 AM   
PatrickG38


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

A dear friend, who has a son in his 20's that has Downs Syndrome, posted this on Facebook, expressing her outrage about the verdict.

Her son is one of the sweetest, kindest people I have ever met. I understand that she feels it is an affront to his existence, but.....

The more I have thought about it, the more I think this was the right verdict. If someone wants to make the choice to not have a child with Downs, and can discover that early enough in the pregnancy to terminate it, they should have that right.

But, I have to admit, I am wrestling with this opinion, and trying to figure out why. I thought I would put it here and get some opinions and thoughts.

quote:

A Portland, Ore. couple was awarded $2.9 million on Friday for the care of their Down syndrome baby, who they argue would not have been born if doctors had not been "negligent” in their pre-natal care.

Ariel and Deborah Levy won their "wrongful birth" suit against Legacy Health System, arguing they chose to continue their pregnancy based on what doctors told them, according to ABC News, and would have terminated it if they had not been assured their baby did not have the genetic condition.

Jurors found five instances of Legacy Health's negligence, including a doctor's finding that the baby had a normal chromosomal profile based on a test that was performed and analyzed incorrectly.

Thirteen weeks into Deborah Levy's pregnancy, according to The Oregonian, her doctor tested a sample of tissue and concluded the baby did not have any chromosomal problems. Even though later tests suggested it might have Down syndrome, doctors assured the family that nothing was wrong.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/parents-awarded-2-9m-wrongful-birth-lawsuit-daughter-born-syndrome-article-1.1037159#ixzz1sgmxY54g



You do not often see on these forums such intelligent ambivalence. This is an extremely difficult question and you should be aware not all states recognize a cause of action for wrongful life. As to the not loving the child currently, that is of course just silly.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 9:00:11 AM   
xXLithiumXx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

The thing that bothered me with the discussions on Facebook was folks saying that there is no way the parents can love a child that they would have aborted.

The child is now 4, if I recall correctly, and there is nothing that indicates, to me, that these parents are lying about their love for her, and want to provide her with the best care they can forever.



The article that I read says that they do love her, and there was nothing that I read that would have indicated that they would have aborted her. But then, I haven't had coffee and I could be letting my rose colored glasses influence my thinking on the matter.

No amount of love changes the fact that the wrong tissue was tested, and that the results could have better prepared them for the care of a child with Downs.



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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 9:02:07 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

A dear friend, who has a son in his 20's that has Downs Syndrome, posted this on Facebook, expressing her outrage about the verdict.

Her son is one of the sweetest, kindest people I have ever met. I understand that she feels it is an affront to his existence, but.....

The more I have thought about it, the more I think this was the right verdict. If someone wants to make the choice to not have a child with Downs, and can discover that early enough in the pregnancy to terminate it, they should have that right.

But, I have to admit, I am wrestling with this opinion, and trying to figure out why. I thought I would put it here and get some opinions and thoughts.



that is not about the baby, it is about health care negligence, or a doctor not doing their job correctly.

Its not about the right to or not have that baby either.

If the government is 3rd party to someones ability to have or not have a baby without your consent then guess what..... that is slavery.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 9:07:44 AM   
perfectedchaos


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Joined: 4/20/2012
Status: offline 		This family put their complete trust in people that someone should be able to completely trust. A doctor is trained for years before becoming a practicing doctor. I am prolife, in most instances. However, given that these tests are done early on in pregnancy, quite routinely, i definitely back these loving parents. They want the best for their children, a life that gives the the best possibilities, and the ability to live without barriers and without struggle and without pain. Since these tests are so routine, it worries me that doctors misread, and then followed through with misinforming the parents. Which is a HUGE problem. What if it would have been another illness, or much worse outcomes. Do they misinform other parents as well? How many other Doctors and Hospitals are guilty of the same behavior. It worries me as a young woman who is entering into the stage of life where starting a family is in my soon future. My heart goes out to this family and their child, they did the right thing most definitely as should any other families in this situation.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 9:13:21 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		I am pro choice all the way. If you want an abortion, then get one. If you don't then don't.

To be more specific about what I think is bothering me, now that I have thought about it and read some of these replies, I think I am more confused about how I feel regarding people being able to find out about handicaps and make the choice to end the pregnancy, than I am about this actual case.

I just wonder where it will end. Downs syndrome, ok to abort, wanted girl but got boy, is that ok to abort also?

Sighs.

This is new territory for sure.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 9:32:46 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I am pro choice all the way. If you want an abortion, then get one. If you don't then don't.

To be more specific about what I think is bothering me, now that I have thought about it and read some of these replies, I think I am more confused about how I feel regarding people being able to find out about handicaps and make the choice to end the pregnancy, than I am about this actual case.

I just wonder where it will end. Downs syndrome, ok to abort, wanted girl but got boy, is that ok to abort also?

Sighs.

This is new territory for sure.

Why do you say it's new territory? That has been the reason to do an amnio for decades now.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 9:45:35 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I am pro choice all the way. If you want an abortion, then get one. If you don't then don't.

To be more specific about what I think is bothering me, now that I have thought about it and read some of these replies, I think I am more confused about how I feel regarding people being able to find out about handicaps and make the choice to end the pregnancy, than I am about this actual case.

I just wonder where it will end. Downs syndrome, ok to abort, wanted girl but got boy, is that ok to abort also?

I wouldn't be comfortable with abortion as sex selection but I think abortion has to be an option when a serious genetic illness is detected prior to birth. People with Down's may be sweet and gentle but they are also prone to a number of illnesses, tend to die young, have trouble living independly and are almost always sterile. Is that really a life you'd wish on someone? Many other genetic diseases result in a child who suffers for a few years and then dies. Should any child be born only to suffer and die before they can walk or talk?

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 10:14:27 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I am pro choice all the way. If you want an abortion, then get one. If you don't then don't.

To be more specific about what I think is bothering me, now that I have thought about it and read some of these replies, I think I am more confused about how I feel regarding people being able to find out about handicaps and make the choice to end the pregnancy, than I am about this actual case.

I just wonder where it will end. Downs syndrome, ok to abort, wanted girl but got boy, is that ok to abort also?

Sighs.

This is new territory for sure.

Why do you say it's new territory? That has been the reason to do an amnio for decades now.

I have known folks who, when having a baby after they were 40, did have amnio to see if the child was ok. I have never known anyone who had to make the decision about whether to carry the child to term though. So, I have been blissfully ignorant I reckon.

This case just got me thinking about many different scenarios.

hell, I am hittin 50 Monday, it may be the beginnings of my middle aged crazies!

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 10:15:32 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I am pro choice all the way. If you want an abortion, then get one. If you don't then don't.

To be more specific about what I think is bothering me, now that I have thought about it and read some of these replies, I think I am more confused about how I feel regarding people being able to find out about handicaps and make the choice to end the pregnancy, than I am about this actual case.

I just wonder where it will end. Downs syndrome, ok to abort, wanted girl but got boy, is that ok to abort also?

I wouldn't be comfortable with abortion as sex selection but I think abortion has to be an option when a serious genetic illness is detected prior to birth. People with Down's may be sweet and gentle but they are also prone to a number of illnesses, tend to die young, have trouble living independly and are almost always sterile. Is that really a life you'd wish on someone? Many other genetic diseases result in a child who suffers for a few years and then dies. Should any child be born only to suffer and die before they can walk or talk?

I agree with you 100% Ken, but, who gets to decide what is and is not acceptable? That is what bothers me, I think.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 10:55:59 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		A colleague of mine back when I was teaching found that her fetus had profound defects and would either not live or would be in need of 24/7 care. She chose to have Aaron, and he died in her arms after taking a few breaths. He had sirenomalia (mermaid baby) and if he had lived would have needed tremendous amounts of care. She couldn't terminate the pregnancy, she felt that she had to give the baby the best chance possible.

Personally, it's not the decision I would have made. She had two other children whose lives would have been profoundly changed by the addition of a special needs person and KNOWING that... to me, seems hideously selfish. Bringing a person into the world who is never going to have a "normal life"... selfish. But she made the choice with proper medical information, and it was the right choice for HER.

That is why the family in question has a tort. Of course they love their child, who I hope has a good and healthy life. They were not able to make an informed decision, because they were not given correct information.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 11:28:59 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I am pro choice all the way. If you want an abortion, then get one. If you don't then don't.

To be more specific about what I think is bothering me, now that I have thought about it and read some of these replies, I think I am more confused about how I feel regarding people being able to find out about handicaps and make the choice to end the pregnancy, than I am about this actual case.

I just wonder where it will end. Downs syndrome, ok to abort, wanted girl but got boy, is that ok to abort also?

I wouldn't be comfortable with abortion as sex selection but I think abortion has to be an option when a serious genetic illness is detected prior to birth. People with Down's may be sweet and gentle but they are also prone to a number of illnesses, tend to die young, have trouble living independly and are almost always sterile. Is that really a life you'd wish on someone? Many other genetic diseases result in a child who suffers for a few years and then dies. Should any child be born only to suffer and die before they can walk or talk?

I agree with you 100% Ken, but, who gets to decide what is and is not acceptable? That is what bothers me, I think.

I think it should be, as it is in these cases now, the mothers choice. It is her life and health potentially at risk as well as the responsibility of caring for the child if born. Hopefully she has a partner and doctor who will give her their honest opinions and support but ultimately the decision should be hers.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 8:28:58 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub


I just wonder where it will end. Downs syndrome, ok to abort, wanted girl but got boy, is that ok to abort also?

Sighs.

This is new territory for sure.


Yep. In fact, more girl babies are aborted than boy babies. It is especially bad in China. But, yes here, in the USA, we kill girl babies for not being a boy baby.

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/21/2012 10:32:43 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Yep. In fact, more girl babies are aborted than boy babies. It is especially bad in China. But, yes here, in the USA, we kill girl babies for not being a boy baby.


We do?

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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/22/2012 12:17:55 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		women get abortions for tons of reasons..no one ever asks why. Girls who had an oops with a complete stranger and doesn't want kids, because of birth defects, sometimes just because.

To be honest ever since I was diagnosed with depression when I was very young, if they would have some kind of testing for that and I would have found out that my daughter has the disposition for it as well, as she does, I probably would have aborted her. My feelings of guilt about her depression and anxiety problems abound.

That doesn't mean I don't love her. I do more than one can ever say, but The overwhelming problems and guilt from it was more than I was prepared to handle.


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RE: wrongful birth or malpractice? - 4/22/2012 12:43:28 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

The thing that bothered me with the discussions on Facebook was folks saying that there is no way the parents can love a child that they would have aborted.

The child is now 4, if I recall correctly, and there is nothing that indicates, to me, that these parents are lying about their love for her, and want to provide her with the best care they can forever.

From time to time I get the impression that the abortion debate is so out of hand in the USA that lots of cruel, hurtful things are said by people blinded by their own fanaticism.

One's potential to love a living child has no relationship with the choices one may or may not have made about having that child in different circumstances. Single women are often torn between aborting and carrying in the early stages of a pregnancy. I've never heard any one claim that this ambivalence prevents those women who choose to eventually have the child from giving that child all the love they need and more.

Some people are best ignored. It sounds to me like those small minded Facebook whingers qualify as deserving to be ignored completely.

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