RE: any one knows iron maiden? (Full Version)

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YSG -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/26/2012 10:32:45 AM)

The iron maiden is not a torture device, it is an execution device (and quite a brutal one at that).



mnottertail -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/26/2012 10:39:22 AM)

If only I had known that before I stuck that replica on my dick to give it some tough love, I woulda stayed with banging it on the urinal to dry it off, and ignored the breakage and water spurting everywhere.....

Bernardo Gui



Aswad -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/26/2012 11:14:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyThoughts

Rather than run two thin lines of conducting tape in parallel which is fiddly. I'd suggest running a single normal line of tape, then pull a pair of blades down the middle of the tape to carve out a uniform gap down it's length.


Conductive foam pads, individually wired.

Gives you full control over where the electricity can go, assuming you keep your electronics straight. They're also getting good, and getting cheap. I would imagine the point is to use the stress bit, but if one wants to shock people instead, it's perfectly possible to use conductive wires inside a sleepsack style restraint.

As for water or syrup, wouldn't capsaicin be better?

I seem to recall it does penetrate skin, even if it's a lot slower than for mucus membranes etc.

IWYW,
- Aswad.



Aswad -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/26/2012 11:31:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG

The iron maiden is not a torture device, it is an execution device (and quite a brutal one at that).


It's perfectly possible to adapt it to torture.

So long as the spikes don't penetrate the body while one is perfectly aligned, it will force the person inside to remain perfectly still. Then they get sleep deprived and start nodding off and get started awake by the pain from the small pricks. And develop cramps that cause jerking motions that cause additional pricks. If the interior is sterile and the spikes are dense enough, without too sharp points, this will not inflict sufficient damage to kill in the short term. It will, however, qualify as interrogation level torture.

A modern improvement to the safety would, as SexyThoughts commented, be to use electricity or other means to cause the same effect. There are a million different ways to prevent electrical shocks from resulting in a problem, so long as one actually knows what one is doing. Far safer than using rounded or flat points to the spikes, and far more painful (which extends how long it can inflict sleep deprivation and unexpected shocks from twitching, jerking and nodding off).

For someone looking to stick to spikes, though, I would recommend threaded spikes so that it will be possible to adjust a single enclosure to multiple users (as well as changes in body mass and the like for a single user). A simple paper maché cast or the like can be used to gauge how the spikes must be positioned, and the device is obviously closed carefully the first time. One supposes a smart person would include a means to safeword, or at least something which will detect serious injuries (e.g. blood on the floor will conduct electricity, and ECG is getting to be affordable now).

I don't think a lot of people here plan to execute their subs, save as a fantasy sim thing.

What its original purpose is, thus becomes less relevant.

If you want brutal executions, the brazen bull strikes me as far worse. To say nothing of the half dozen "improvements" I can think of off the top of my head, using modern technology and a bit of knowledge about the body, its limitations and the manner in which it senses pain. Humans are able to experience far more suffering than its converse, unfortunately. And, even more troubling, far more inclined to inflict suffering than to alleviate it, let alone cause pleasure.

Ironically, the former is uncensored in the news, while the latter rarely is, it seems.

IWYW,
- Aswad.




SexyThoughts -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/27/2012 12:44:57 AM)

@Aswad. Rounding the numbers cos TGIF and I'm lazy. Pads are too small and visibility will be tricky for manual activation on each touch.

And keeping things SSC

Assume a 2.0 Metre high, 0.5M wide, 0.5M deep, re-purposed coffin casket (a routine design any theatre/halloween carpenter can build in their sleep, no questions asked), with it's reinforcing on the outside (they might start asking here, so say "dancers" and they'll add the right robustness)
Leaving it's floor and ceiling alone, and assuming when it's shut, it's light-tight, but not air-tight.

The sides have an interior area of 4 square metres to make untouchable. Any space wider than about 4square centimetres (body part size may vary) can be used to rest a nose or fingertip against , so you want to make a zappy point every 2^2 CM. That means 2500points per square metre(or if you don't count edges 49^2=2401). or Ten thousand per casket

So either 10,000 non electric metal spikes, or 20,000 electric points, paired together to prevent a heart loop, not including wiring. Custom threading each spike per subbie, might be beyond the scope of a play party [:D]

If you switch from points to lines, then it's gets simpler, since a 2metre spiral of electric fence wire, looping back at the door, nylon tacked in the corners, with the loops 2cm apart is only 100 loops high with 600 anchor points (4 per corner plus 2 either side of the door). 2metres in circumference = 200metres of wire (http://www.farmerswarehouse.com.au/product.php?productid=16286&cat=291&page=1 = AUD $54.17)[8|]

If you want to make it into a high speed party game, anyone can play, suspend the Maiden from a single ceiling point, turn out any lights inside it, and spin it slowly. Count the screams or the drops in the wires resistance to calculate scores


Mother Russia as a song, was saved by the organ bits. Driving over a ridge, and descending into a foggy valley under a full moon is the best way to experience it. [:D]



Aswad -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/27/2012 1:15:27 AM)

Wasn't thinking manual activation, but yes.

If you're going for a cut tape spiral, you could also hang a PVC pipe or large tubular bell.

Cheap and easy for games, compared to a coffin (at least around here), but obviously not useful for spinning the players. If you leave a bit of room, it can swing for some neat twist'n'shout, tho. Guess a carousel could make for some fun, if you're a carpentry type, the kind where you've got two axes, don't know what they're called. Kinky theme parks are a ways off, though. Sob.

In any case, I liked your ideas.

You ever play with mcu's running the hv?

IWYW,
- Aswad.



SexyThoughts -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/27/2012 1:56:03 AM)

MCU's are complicated, as a simple person I try and play as simple as possible for safety and emotional connection reasons. [:D]

If coffins aren't your thing, there's always a PVC pipe frame?
Like this person's, only perverted http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-94aAsaGRS1U/TVgSmByhETI/AAAAAAAAAac/rMG31Z_kpaQ/s1600/pvcframe.JPG

Use a soldering iron to melt some diagonal climbing notches every 2CM, and run the electric fence wire along the inside, 270 degrees around at each post and 2 CM up, at the last corner.
Since you need a PVC frame door too, I'd wire the three walls as one looping-back spiral and the door as it's own spiral. And notch the outside of the door and inside of the door-frame deep to prevent their wires connecting and shorting.
It's less a maiden and more a lighter, more escapable, see through, electrified cage, which is either a pro or a con depending on who's playing [:D]
With all uprights, make sure it's anchored to prevent toppling
[:D]

"Walking on water are miracles all you can trust
Measure your coffin does it measure up to your lust?
So I think I'll leave you
With your bishops and your guilt
So until the next time
Have a good sin

Only the good die young
All the evil seem to live forever"



MOPSORAMA -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/28/2012 7:12:50 PM)

Oh Madam, Paul Di Anno was not all that bad. Of course he does not compare to Bruce Dickinson But Phantom of the Opera is a classic!!



Aswad -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/29/2012 7:01:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyThoughts

MCU's are complicated, as a simple person I try and play as simple as possible for safety and emotional connection reasons. [:D]


I see your point, though I wouldn't necessarily agree. There are ample ways to improve safety, even beyond normal electro gear, and it isn't exactly as if it's necessary to let the mcu do more than act as an extension of your own actions. For a good example of proper use of such things, the LELO Insignia remote controlled series is an interesting twist on the vibrator concept.

Now all we need is an electro voodoo doll. [:D]

quote:

If coffins aren't your thing, there's always a PVC pipe frame?


I'm not much for being inside coffins, seeing as I'm a bit claustrophobic. Though a couple of hours of MRI scanning has served as useful practice in overcoming it, a coffin would likely be taking things a step too far, for now.

As for using coffins, well... Ars isn't into that, but if I/we end up playing with someone that is, it would be explored.

quote:


It's less a maiden and more a lighter, more escapable, see through, electrified cage, which is either a pro or a con depending on who's playing [:D]


I prefer things to be possible to escape in an emergency. Magnetic locks are pretty nice for this, as it is possible to determine the maximum exertion under the influence of adrenaline and adjust the gap height to require just shy of that to open the coffin/closet/drawer. Plus, in case of fire, a magnet of the neodymium type loses strength very quickly at even slightly elevated temperatures (not that I would consider that a major factor in its safety as an escape mechanism, seeing as the carbon monoxide is usually incapacitating before the temperature rises). Finally, if you need any sort of remote controlled release or have an alarm system you would like to hook up, a solenoid coil can trim the field back to almost nothing (and if it's wired around the magnet, the heating of the coil during extended operation will weaken the magnetic field, eventually resulting in reversed field so the lock bursts open if you're using mag-mag instead of mag-iron).

See through is nice, but you could get that with an acrylic iron maiden, too.

IWYW,
- Aswad.




GotSteel -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/29/2012 8:58:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MOPSORAMA

Oh Madam, Paul Di Anno was not all that bad. Of course he does not compare to Bruce Dickinson But Phantom of the Opera is a classic!!


And no one even mentions Blaze...



lazarus1983 -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (4/29/2012 11:35:18 AM)

Blaze did his best work after Maiden. His solo stuff is six different kinds of awesome.



SexyThoughts -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (5/1/2012 4:25:11 AM)

Escapability may be safer when the person restrained is "sane" or "with it" But the problem with any extreme in pleasure or pain is that people become primal.
It's kind of the intention of play to push people to a limit, but when people reach their limits, they become a different person in a different state of mind, and you need to design right up to the edges of behavior.

Playing with a "Iron Maiden" torture box (even a safer replica) can touch a wide range of human mental buttons, including fear of the dark, claustrophobia, being trapped, nude, torture, shocked, disorientated, in a predicament.

Everyone's different in a predicament. Some people will relax into "the eye of the storm" and wait it out. Others will go to the other extreme and have a massive involuntary adrenaline response and a "fight, flight, fuck" reaction that'll have them bouncing off thick walls and through the thin walls.
And you'll have other people whose reaction will be between these two extremes.
And mixed in with that is human weaknesses, insecure people often skip meals and take high colonics before going nude in public, then fainting becomes a risk. And no-surrender traits like bratty Houdini tendencies and proud competitive people who won't ever safeword.

And it doesn't have to be hardcore stuff like Iron Maidens. I've literally seen a tickled person laughingly contort themselves upside down until they dislocated their arm and were the last to notice. [>:]

Magnetic locks open when you're reaching peak adrenaline are a bit "coitus interruptus" You want to be safely restrained when your body's flooded with adrenaline. But you want to be released when you're weak, subspaced, low on air, totally out of it... etc.
I wouldn't make an Iron Maiden as a self bondage device, it would be two and a half person minimum



Aswad -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (5/1/2012 5:31:19 AM)

I was thinking long term restraint. Like the coffin under the bed thing.

During play, escape is a pretty different issue, as you say.

Speaking of bouncing off the walls and dislocated shoulders, I would be concerned with the possibility of head or neck injuries. One could of course tailor it to be too small to permit someone to build up the momentum to cause any, but I'm not confident in what the relevant spacing would be. If I were to make an attempt, I would probably look into something like the braces for traffic injuries to address that problem, experimenting on myself first. Be nice to hear others' experiences on that point, though.

IWYW,
- Aswad.



DomMale46 -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (5/1/2012 5:47:50 AM)

Another Maiden Fan here. For those who might not be aware, Maiden is touring in the US this summer. I got my ticket already. [sm=line.gif]

Check out http://ironmaiden.com/tourdates.php



GotSteel -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (5/1/2012 7:24:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983
Blaze did his best work after Maiden. His solo stuff is six different kinds of awesome.


I have some live cd by him that I can't even find in his discography, I lost track of him after that. What would you recommend getting?



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (5/1/2012 1:05:31 PM)

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3I88wsFKao&ob=av2e


[image]local://upfiles/687741/2D44872BE4BE44B8B171B1ACBA29C240.gif[/image]



lazarus1983 -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (5/1/2012 8:00:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983
Blaze did his best work after Maiden. His solo stuff is six different kinds of awesome.


I have some live cd by him that I can't even find in his discography, I lost track of him after that. What would you recommend getting?


Silicon Messiah, Blood & Belief, and The Man Who Would Not Die.

The first two are under his band BLAZE, the last album is just under his full name, Blaze Bayley. The latter is also my favorite. Go to youtube, and look up the title song,The Man Who Would Not Die

His last album, Promise & Terror, has a four song series at the end of the album that's about his real life struggle in losing his wife, and coming to terms with her death. Some very very strong stuff.



SexyThoughts -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (5/3/2012 5:58:40 AM)

The dislocation happened in two point restraints as an improv thing at a play party. A extroverted, ticklish, brat being tickled by other brats in front of an audience. She was having a great time and over excited, but her body was trying to escape the tickles. And when people get trapped in an ambigious position, their survival mechanism burns any IQ points to get hulk muscle energy. She contorted her whole body, dislocated her own shoulder just being tickled, didn't notice and laughed, until she noticed everyone had stopped in horror.

So comparing 2 versus 5 point restraints as far as the safety of escapability.
2 points is easier to escape than 5, which is good if the Top(s) wanders off. But otherwise if the person actually in them is "primal" at peak pain/pleasure, then if their brains floated off outside their body, freeing their unthinking, adrenaline crazed body is a bad idea.

And above a certain level of play, over-restraining is safer than under-restraining, since the restrained person becomes "predictable". And since everyone is different and surprising, you have to have stretch space in your scene, not just for "worst case" but the opposite "better than expected"
And the same goes for engineering, you can save time and money, but after a certain point flimsy stuff breaks, and broken stuff can injure the person in them. Shibari gurus rant about suspension load factors, because if the suspension fails for any reason, you can drop someone on their head, paralyzing them for life or worse. Thin stocks break and put jagged wood near the neck. Impaler toys can impale for real. The trial and error kink community has many injuries people don't mention. You want to try new stuff, but you want to iron out the obvious flaws in advance. :)

So when you design edge-devices, Iron Maidens or otherwise, you need to work through all the angles, because mistakes can have permanent consequences. It's cheaper to fix those kind of mistakes before they're made. :)


The head's easy to protect by making the maidens head space wider than the shoulder space, so the shoulders will always hit the sides first. Neck braces either hard or soft, should prevent whip lash if a feedback loop happens and the subject starts ping-ponging off, between a live pair of walls non stop. But if that's happening, you probably want to cut the power, until they get their balance back.

(Neck braces are pretty cool for concealing a non-vanilla collar in public BTW)



mslave4M -> RE: any one knows iron maiden? (5/3/2012 4:47:51 PM)

Bastinado is not a torture device; its an instrument of divine delight...........just my two penn'orth!



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