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Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 6:56:37 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/23/marissa-alexander-shoot-to-kill-or-you-must-not-be-scared-enough/


Marissa Alexander: Shoot to Kill Or You Must Not Be Scared Enough"



"Marissa Alexander is another victim of Florida’s infamous Stand Your Ground law, proving that Florida statute 776.013 is not for battered women or people who won’t shoot to kill. When attacked by her husband in her home, with an order of protection in place, Marissa Alexander shot into the ceiling, instead of into his body, to scare him away. She is now sitting in a jail cell, awaiting sentencing for assault with a deadly weapon.

Ms. Alexander is black and a mother of three. She had given birth nine days earlier to a premature infant, allegedly as a result of battering during her pregnancy. She is a licensed gun owner, with concealed carry permit. She was in her own home. Her husband had a documented history of domestic violence. She reasonably believed that her life was in danger and her husband was violating an order of protection

According to Ms. Alexander:


He assaulted me, shoving, strangling and holding me against my will, preventing me from fleeing all while I begged for him to leave. After a minute or two of trying to escape, I was able to make it to the garage where my truck was parked, but in my haste to leave I realized my keys were missing. I tried to open the garage but there was a mechanical failure. I was unable to leave, trapped in the dark with no way out. For protection against further assault I retrieved my weapon; which is registered and I have a concealed weapon permit. Trapped, no phone, I entered back into my home to either leave through another exit or obtain my cell phone.

The weapon was in my right hand down by my side and he yelled, “Bitch I will kill you!”, and charged toward me. In fear and desperate attempt, I lifted my weapon up, turned away and discharged a single shot in the wall up in the ceiling. As I stood my ground it prevented him from doing what he threatened and he ran out of the home.

He ran all the way to the police station to file charges against her. Police came and took her into custody – no Zimmerman benefit of the doubt that day. Ms. Alexander has since been convicted of three counts of assault with a deadly weapon, because her husband had brought his two young sons with him when he illegally entered the home."


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/25/2012 6:57:12 PM >

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 7:09:57 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		the law always has been stand your ground and its fucked up because of the way the courts construed it.

now the pendulum swings too far the other way.

they put a shit hole label on it that makes it sound like self defense is not part of the stand your ground elements and then people think they can interpret the lew.



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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 8:00:45 PM   
erieangel


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Status: offline 		She should have shot to kill him. Period.


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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 9:21:56 PM   
stef


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Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		That's not a "Stand Your Ground Fail," it's a "Stupid Woman Fail."

If you're genuinely in fear for your life, you shoot the threat, not the ceiling.

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 9:41:25 PM   
subrob1967


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Status: offline 		Is there a credible link to the story, or just the bullshit link Owner offered up? Also, how can it be a fail if the stupid lady didn't even try to defend herself? All the investigators have is a he said/she said, a gun with her prints, and a bullet hole in the wall, if it's a true story.

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 10:08:38 PM   
DarqueMirror


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Status: offline 		The actual terminology is "shoot to stop the aggressive action," which is legalese for "if they can't survive two to the chest, they shouldn't have attacked you."

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 10:45:21 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Is there a credible link to the story, or just the bullshit link Owner offered up?

It's real. I don't have the link handy, and I'm tired of doing other people's homework. But I remember seeing the story.

Personally, I think the charges against the woman are fucked up beyond any pretense of sanity. The guy ought to be thanking his lucky stars that she fired a warning shot instead of killing him. And the fact that the authorities are prosecuting her instead of him is just fucking unbelievable.

K.

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 10:51:24 PM   
Nosathro


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Status: offline 		This just shows how bad this law really is. I know I am going to catch hell for what I am about to say. I just find it curious that Zimmerman was relased at first, the police had no problem about arresting Marissa. I would argue that race does play into who benefits from this law and who doesn't.

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 11:09:33 PM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

This just shows how bad this law really is. I know I am going to catch hell for what I am about to say. I just find it curious that Zimmerman was relased at first, the police had no problem about arresting Marissa. I would argue that race does play into who benefits from this law and who doesn't.


Really? Because Zimmerman's hispanic. Are you trying to say the cops prefer one shade of brown over the other?

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 11:22:47 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

This just shows how bad this law really is. I know I am going to catch hell for what I am about to say. I just find it curious that Zimmerman was relased at first, the police had no problem about arresting Marissa. I would argue that race does play into who benefits from this law and who doesn't.


That was what I got out of it at first, but then I remembered that Zimmerman had a few friends in the DA office and police dept...
Some random black woman would not have those contacts/protections.

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 11:28:05 PM   
subrob1967


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Status: offline 		That random black woman also endangered the public by shooting thru the wall of her house, I'm not feeling too sorry for her dumb ass.

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 11:34:13 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

That random black woman also endangered the public by shooting thru the wall of her house, I'm not feeling too sorry for her dumb ass.

Well actually, the "random black woman" in question "discharged a single shot in the wall up in the ceiling," possibly endangering, at worst, a random bird or whacky inventor zipping around on his anti-gravity platform.

K.

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/25/2012 11:35:42 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

That random black woman also endangered the public by shooting thru the wall of her house, I'm not feeling too sorry for her dumb ass.


You are right, discharging a firearm into a person is much safer than firing it into a wall. Someone could get hurt if you shoot a wall...

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/26/2012 12:08:38 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Reported...


Yeah, he gets that a lot. Some more...immature posters....just don't understand what polite conversation/debate is.

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/26/2012 12:19:14 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		Gray admitted to a history of physical abuse. In a previous incident, Alexander said he beat her so severely she ended up in the hospital and he ended up in jail. "He pushed me, choked me, pushed me so hard into the closet that I hit my head against the wall and passed out for a second," Alexander said.

In a deposition for the case against Alexander, Gray backed up much of his wife's story. "I told her if she ever cheated on me, I would kill her," he said during the proceeding led by a prosecutor for State Attorney Angela Corey's office and his wife's defense attorney.

"If my kids weren't there, I knew I probably would have tried to take the gun from her," Gray said, adding, "If my kids wouldn't have been there, I probably would have put my hand on her." When Alexander's defense attorney asked him what he meant by "put my hand on her," Gray replied, "probably hit her. I got five baby mammas and I put my hands on every last one of them except for one."

Alexander's attorney filed a motion for dismissal under the stand your ground law but at that proceeding her husband changed his story. Gray said he lied during his deposition after conspiring with his wife in an effort to protect her. At the hearing, he denied threatening to kill his wife, adding, "I begged and pleaded for my life when she had the gun." The motion was denied by the judge.

Alexander was offered a plea deal by Corey's office, but she opted to go to trial. A jury found Alexander guilty in 12 minutes. She is baffled why invoking the stand your ground law wasn't successful in her case.

"Other defendants have used it. What's so different about my situation that it doesn't apply to me?" she asked.

The local NAACP believes race may have played a role.

"There's a double standard with stand your ground," said Isaiah Rumlin, president of the Jacksonville Chapter of the NAACP. "The law is applied differently between African-Americans and whites who are involved in these types of cases," he added.

Rumlin cited two shooting cases in Florida with white shooters: One had a successful stand your ground defense and the other has yet to be charged with a crime. Online blogs are also raising the question of race. Last week, a spokeswoman for the Rev. Al Sharpton confirmed he, too, was looking into Alexander's story. When asked about race as a factor in her case, Alexander declined to comment.

CNN requested an interview with Rico Gray for this story. He agreed but later declined through a family friend, saying he was concerned that speaking publicly would put his life in danger. On Sunday, he resumed contact with CNN, offering an interview to "anyone who would like to pay." Monetary compensation for an interview is against CNN policy.

Through a spokeswoman, State Attorney Angela Corey declined to comment on the case until after the sentencing. Alexander's attorney, Kevin M. Cobbin, is fighting for a new trial and that hearing is tentatively scheduled for next week. If that motion is denied, Alexander will receive a mandatory 20-year sentence with no possibility of parole.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/florida/article/252719/19/Marissa-Alexander-in-her-own-words

I see a huge court battle over this. Possibly all the way up the line to the SC.

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/26/2012 12:25:56 AM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline 		Manunkind,
Have you ever heard the saying "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar?"
In my experience, conservatives are mostly just people like liberals, and when you talk to them person to person, you find that they are generally decent folks.
Also, the more you talk with them, the more common ground you can find. This means less anger in the world, less fighting, more solutions. Less suffering, more people getting work and having nice lives with nice spouses and kids and good teachers and garbage collection and buses running on time...
A threat in the internet age is that we self-censor, only listen to sources that agree with us, and devolve into a society with two groups living in different worlds. The long term result of that is war, civil war, and I don't think this nation can survive another of those, do you?
So lets try to reach out to our neighbors, find solutions. Compromise sometimes means giving up something and having the other guy give up something, but it can also be finding a path that satisfies everyone's concerns, and makes everyone happier.
/end polyanna, we now return to your regularly scheduled all snark all the time channel from me...

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/26/2012 7:10:57 AM   
papassion


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I would think the reason they arrested her was because of the backlash they got for NOT arresting Zimmermen. I would assume their policy now is to arrest first, sort out later.

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/26/2012 7:23:15 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		No, she was convicted...

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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/26/2012 7:42:19 AM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

This just shows how bad this law really is. I know I am going to catch hell for what I am about to say. I just find it curious that Zimmerman was relased at first, the police had no problem about arresting Marissa. I would argue that race does play into who benefits from this law and who doesn't.

One other thing to consider: Zimmerman's father is a former magistrate of Florida's Fairfax County's 19th Judicial District - Marissa Alexander apparently is not related to anybody "special" in the eyes of the cops.


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RE: Another Florida Stand Your Ground Fail...... - 4/26/2012 8:16:56 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		I am going to have to back track a bit. I do not believe this is a Stand Your Ground case, under Chapter 776, 776.012 rather 776.013 still, it does not change anything I have previously said.

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or (b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or (c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or (d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

(5) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night. (b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest. (c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.

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