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Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 3:26:58 AM   
VanessaChaland


Posts: 362
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline 		Religion, in most aspects, conflicts with nearly everything sexual, other than the standard missionary position for reproduction type sex. If one wants to follow the doctrine, one is living in sin with any sort of pre-marital sex, extra-martial sex, masturbation for some, fantasy, pornography etc. Unitarian churches may have a different perception or agenda on this, I'm not totally sure. But certainly of the big 3 Monos, well, they all have the same doctrine.

So for those that have a religious or spiritual belief along those lines, how do you align that with cuckolding and or other forms of kinky sex? Or do you?

I always think people should consider that the core value and purpose of religion is not what many think or have been taught. Keep in mind that mere mortals, average men wrote the scriptures. The bible has been hacked up, amended, translated, altered, edited, had portions deleted thousands of times over the last couple thousand years.

Man (as in mankind) being what he is, often gets things wrong, or focus's on the wrong things. If one were to look at it that the main agenda of religion (while here on earth) as being kindness, compassion, charity, altruism, benevolence, forgiveness etc, whom you sleep with is of no relevance as long as it is consensual.

What happens in the afterlife is unknown, but I have always felt that the wrath of God is not going to be over sex, sexual choices or inclinations, but rather about hate, murder, apathy towards those less fortunate, rape, child abuse and crimes like that.

Obviously I could be wrong, but only each individual can make the effort to separate out the reality of God and the fiction of man made religion.
Right?
Wrong?


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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 3:36:55 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Wrong section! Someone finally comes up with an interesting discussion and does not put it in the P&R section to balance out all the political and zims.
Did you do this on purpose Vanessa?

(in reply to VanessaChaland)
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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 3:40:51 AM   
VanessaChaland


Posts: 362
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline 		No, the section I placed it in states:
"As the description for this section states, this is a forum for the open discussion of any and all topics of interest. Its fine to debate politics and religion here... and just about anything else you want to bring up."

So I assumed that meant it was correct.
Will there now be spankings or something, lol? :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Wrong section! Someone finally comes up with an interesting discussion and does not put it in the P&R section to balance out all the political and zims.
Did you do this on purpose Vanessa?



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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 4:33:43 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Well I must say your pic looks very inviting for some good old spanking. I'm off to score my monthly dose of the holy herb. And when I am back I will comment on your topic with a high perspective.
I was never a leg man but those legs make me think twice....

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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 6:40:54 AM   
kitkat105


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/29/2011
From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
Status: offline 		Well, at this point in my life I don't wish to have children, so basically, any sex I have is bad because it's not for procreation - if you go by conservative theology. However, with that said, if I am to embrace my possible future religion (reform judaism), they have a more relaxed view when it comes to sexuality (ie. modesty, fidelity, and health and safety in non-marital sex).

I do tend to agree with you though. If God is going to judge us about anything, it's not going to be because a man enjoys watching his woman have sex or because you might enjoy a caning. I think judgement will fall much more heavily on what humanity has done poorly (war, crime, etc).

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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 6:43:31 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, there is no commandment, thou shalt not fuck. That was a later invention.

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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 9:50:23 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		My religion does not prohibit me having a happy and healthy sex life. I'm sorry for the op that hers does.

There's some phrase in the Torah that translates roughly as you shouldn't do what's unnatural. What it doesn't do is define unnatural. My Rabbi defines it as doing what's unnatural for the person. In other words, a gay trying to stay in the closet is unnatural and thus they shouldn't do that. They should acknowledge that they are homosexual and seek a compatible homosexual partner.

As far as positions go? Not something he would even think of passing judgment on. It's all fine. God gave us the ability to find pleasure in sex and thus it would be wrong not to use this gift but instead deny it and only have unpleasurable sex.

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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 1:19:44 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		my kink and my religion mix just fine together. I am in a Male dominant/female submissive relationship. It's closer to my religion than anything else ever possibly could.

My kink is my ultimate religion.


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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 6:20:35 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Catholics kinda invented the new kink with all that self floggin and thou shalt not. A book that talks of the whore of babylon just gets my nads pumpin. Who is that whore? Where can I find here, is she a 1000 dollar whore or just some cheap street ho?

Seriously? Most religious people are normal, but radicalism made enemies on both sides and I am noticing I radicalize because of radicalisation as well on the opposite side of the spectrum.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 6:48:25 PM   
Karmastic


Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VanessaChaland

Religion, in most aspects, conflicts with nearly everything sexual, other than the standard missionary position for reproduction type sex. If one wants to follow the doctrine, one is living in sin with any sort of pre-marital sex, extra-martial sex, masturbation for some, fantasy, pornography etc. Unitarian churches may have a different perception or agenda on this, I'm not totally sure. But certainly of the big 3 Monos, well, they all have the same doctrine.

So for those that have a religious or spiritual belief along those lines, how do you align that with cuckolding and or other forms of kinky sex? Or do you?

I always think people should consider that the core value and purpose of religion is not what many think or have been taught. Keep in mind that mere mortals, average men wrote the scriptures. The bible has been hacked up, amended, translated, altered, edited, had portions deleted thousands of times over the last couple thousand years.

Man (as in mankind) being what he is, often gets things wrong, or focus's on the wrong things. If one were to look at it that the main agenda of religion (while here on earth) as being kindness, compassion, charity, altruism, benevolence, forgiveness etc, whom you sleep with is of no relevance as long as it is consensual.

What happens in the afterlife is unknown, but I have always felt that the wrath of God is not going to be over sex, sexual choices or inclinations, but rather about hate, murder, apathy towards those less fortunate, rape, child abuse and crimes like that.

Obviously I could be wrong, but only each individual can make the effort to separate out the reality of God and the fiction of man made religion.
Right?
Wrong?


great post!

i think if you're doing something so antithetical to your stated religion, then you're cheating with Cafe Religion, picking and choosing what you want to follow. You're not really following your own religion, you're following a reformed version of it.

I agree, all organized religion is by and for imperfect men (not even women), but I won't digress cus this isn't the P&R forum. But to answer your question - "my" religion has no problem with it except when there isn't consent.


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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/28/2012 10:50:54 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My religion does not prohibit me having a happy and healthy sex life. I'm sorry for the op that hers does.

There's some phrase in the Torah that translates roughly as you shouldn't do what's unnatural. What it doesn't do is define unnatural. My Rabbi defines it as doing what's unnatural for the person. In other words, a gay trying to stay in the closet is unnatural and thus they shouldn't do that. They should acknowledge that they are homosexual and seek a compatible homosexual partner.

As far as positions go? Not something he would even think of passing judgment on. It's all fine. God gave us the ability to find pleasure in sex and thus it would be wrong not to use this gift but instead deny it and only have unpleasurable sex.


Judaism rocks that way!

When I was very young it was presented to me like this: here are some guidelines we find make sense and provide a good foundation for most people. However, if you personally don't find something to be a good fit...do what you need to. You're still a Jew, and you're still going to heaven (which I believe is right here and now on earth, but that's another topic altogether.)

I think I also heard something in the guidelines about women and sex. She snaps, he hops...even if he's in a business meeting. Maybe Jewish women were the first official femdoms.


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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/29/2012 4:36:05 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

But certainly of the big 3 Monos, well, they all have the same doctrine.


Another plug for poly :)

But seriously, my limited understanding of Judaism's stance on sex was confirmed by DesFip's post:

quote:

There's some phrase in the Torah that translates roughly as you shouldn't do what's unnatural. What it doesn't do is define unnatural. My Rabbi defines it as doing what's unnatural for the person. In other words, a gay trying to stay in the closet is unnatural and thus they shouldn't do that. They should acknowledge that they are homosexual and seek a compatible homosexual partner.


Regarding Unitarianism, I haven't studied it but have attend sporadically over the last 18 years. They are quite welcoming and make a point of doing outreach to LGBT. I've never heard any moralizing about sexuality or mention of personal sin. Social injustice is discussed frequently.

http://www.uunashua.org/100q/c3.shtml#q28

How do you regard sin?

We do not believe that a person is born and enslaved in the manner that the doctrine of Original Sin teaches.

We believe that people are punished by their sins, not for them, and that the evil people do lives with them. We also believe that we are enriched by our virtues and that the good we do lives with us and helps make the world better.
You could attend a UU church for years and seldom hear the word sin.

How do you explain evil?

We have no quick doctrine-based answers to explain evil, pain and suffering, and the fact that life can be hellish at times. For all our optimism, most of us acknowledge there is a broken, fragmented or fallen side to humanity, and in each of our lives. While we admit the existence of this negative side of life, we try not to give in to it.

You will find many UUs involved in efforts to make this a more just, peaceful, sane and livable world at local, national and global levels. We strive to act and think in ways that will allow all humans to reach their potential.

And even if we cannot explain why people suffer, we can try to help them when they do.

Can UUs go to heaven or hell?

Since there is no way to know for sure if we go any place when we die, very few, if any of us believe in the physical existence of a place called heaven or hell.

What about salvation? Can a UU be saved?

Salvation is not a word we use frequently.

We do not believe people are born into a state of sin from which they must be saved in order to avoid spending an eternity suffering in hell.

Since we believe in neither original sin nor hell, we do not feel a need to be saved from either.

Do you believe in a Redeemer?

No. We believe we should be judged by how well we live our lives and serve others, not in what a redeemer will do for us. We respect religious and spiritual leaders such as Jesus, Moses and Buddha for what they can teach us about living, not as redeemers in the traditional sense.

If you do not fear God, hell, or eternal damnation, what is your incentive to act morally and responsibly?

We feel that people who live moral and ethical lives usually do so because they have a sense of responsibility to themselves and to others. Our incentive is that we want to live in a more sane, peaceful, and just world than the one we have at present, and we wish to pass on a better world to succeeding generations.

To hold that moral and ethical living only occurs because people fear hell or damnation is to demean those who seek to lead morally and ethically responsible lives.

(in reply to VanessaChaland)
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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/29/2012 4:57:15 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

So for those that have a religious or spiritual belief along those lines, how do you align that with cuckolding and or other forms of kinky sex? Or do you?


I am drawn to the Tantric principle of seeking liberation via sexuality and spirituality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantra

While the doctrines of Tantra vary too widely to summarize briefly, one of its most salient features when compared with earlier forms of Indian religion is that its nondual forms reject the renunciant values of classical yoga, offering instead a world-embracing vision of the whole of reality as the self-expression of a single, free and joyous Divine Consciousness (for example, see the concept of the world as the divine play of Shiva and Shakti.[4]). The practical consequence of this view was that householders could aspire to spiritual liberation in the Tantric system, not only monks. Furthermore, since Tantra dissolved the false dichotomy of spiritual versus mundane, practitioners could entail every aspect of their daily lives into their spiritual growth process, seeking to realize the transcendent in the immanent. Tantric spiritual practices and rituals thus aim to bring about an inner realization of the truth that "Nothing exists that is not Divine" (nāśivaṃ vidyate kvacit[5]), bringing freedom from ignorance and from the cycle of suffering (saṃsāra) in the process. Though the vast majority of scriptural Tantric teachings are not concerned with sexuality, in the popular imagination the term tantra and the notion of superlative sex are indelibly, but erroneously, linked.[6] It is the case that in the nondual schools that advocated "left-handed" practice (vāmāchāra), sexual ritual was employed as a way of entering intensifying and expanding awareness and dissolving mind-created boundaries.[7]

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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/29/2012 5:02:58 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		You cannot make a blanket statement about religion without specifying if you are addressing a religion as it is practiced or as it is set up/intended. Like the difference between written law and case law.

In the case of Judaism, there are the main branches - Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform. Orthodox Jews have (in some cases) a stringent dress code and a very strong maledom culture. Reform Jews are very socially liberal and I have never heard any kind of moral stricture strongly stated there, although there is a liberal undercurrent. At my synagogue, we have had a gay Jewish man visit to make some statement in support of gay Jews, a lesbian couple checking out the congregation (they were greeted warmly but unfortunately never returned), etc.

Note that Judaism does not reflect Paul's letter like Christians do. Paul's letter included the passage "Wives, obey your husbands. Husbands, love your wives", which to me embodies the essence of maledom.

Mormonism makes it clear that men are to obey Jesus, who has the power to resurrect them after death, while wives are to obey their husbands, who can resurrect them.

I tend to think of Catholicism as having two embodiments: the old style, with mouse-poor priests and nuns and a call to social justice; and the evangelical style, typified by Santorum, which is just as judgmental as the worst of the Protestants.

Islam, having shunned modern culture more than the other Abrahamic religions, is close to how all three used to be. As such, women are more of a financial obligation than in other cultures, and the idea of polygamy makes sense, to support women in the community, for a wealthy man. After the Iran-Iraq war, polygamy became quite prevalent in Iran due to the depletion of men in the war.

Since you specifically mentioned cuckoldry - In the Christian religions, there seems to be a sense that sex is for procreation only and NEVER for enjoyment (although such recent movements like Marriage Encounter ignore that). Within that mindset, cuckolding makes no sense whatsoever and is a form of polyandry, which I have seen no religion endorse. Cuckqueaning is not as "off" since polygamy is acknowledged if not endorsed by some of the religions. In Mormonism, there are "spirit children" just waiting to be born, and there is a subtle encouragement to birth as many of them as feasible.



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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/29/2012 8:42:26 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VanessaChaland
Religion, in most aspects, conflicts with nearly everything sexual, other than the standard missionary position for reproduction type sex.


I don't think it's fair to conflate sex negative aspects of the Abrahamic religions with religion in general. The prohibitions in the Bible against becoming a temple prostitute would suggest that religion and sex aren't necessarily enemies.

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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/29/2012 8:45:27 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, it's precisely the Abrahamic religions that found sex something necessary to control, a danger, an escaped desire.

This isn't true of nature-religions, which embrace sexuality, even raise it up as sacred.

Nor is it true of Eastern religions--even the temples are decorated with sexual depictions.

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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/29/2012 5:53:21 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Awwww yeahhh......

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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/29/2012 6:27:51 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VanessaChaland

And you loved every second of it, didn't you sweetheart. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanessaChaland
Will there now be spankings or something, lol? :)

yes, with a butt like that


Please, Karm, don't encourage her. She's been known to go on and on about her butt for pages.




No, because neither your picture or interminable discussion about it does it for me. I like to look at men's buttocks.

That aside, the rest of us are having a good discussion about sex as relates to religion despite you, so thanks for getting the topic up. I see it's been moved to P&R.

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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/29/2012 6:31:42 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		"I see it's been moved to P&R."



I think it`s cool that P&R gets to party with OTD once in a while......awwww yeah.....Gamma.

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RE: Cuckoldry, Kink and Religion. - 4/29/2012 7:29:06 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VanessaChaland
Obviously I could be wrong, but only each individual can make the effort to separate out the reality of God and the fiction of man made religion.


I've got a question for you, have you considered the idea that it's all man made fiction?

(in reply to VanessaChaland)
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