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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/29/2012 6:12:01 PM

OrionTheWolf

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You people are too nice ;).

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/29/2012 9:02:43 PM

littlewonder

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Tell him to get lost, that he's creeping people out, slam the door and go about your business. If he doesn't get the point, take it to the host/hostess. If it still doesn't solve the problem, don't return to the place.

You have to be forward and blunt with such people. He doesn't pay attention to what you say because you're not coming across to him as having authority if all you're doing is giving him a blank stare or just saying "I'm spanking her". Be aggressive, be authoritative.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 4/29/2012 9:03:13 PM >

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/29/2012 9:13:30 PM

Aswad

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More like "be clear", IMO.

Which I note is often considered synonymous with being aggressive.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/29/2012 9:17:26 PM

littlewonder

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when I say be aggressive, I mean get a tone of voice that you mean what you say and not only is it clear, it IS aggressive. Your voice is booming...no loud but very assertive, blunt, and make no mistake about it.....when you hear it you'll want to huddle up into a corner like a trapped mouse.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/29/2012 9:18:24 PM

subbyinlosangele

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I curtly replied, "I'm spanking her", which clarified that I was in charge. He left shortly thereafter. ... After a blank stare in response, he got the message and left. ... Any suggestions? Speak to the hostess, continue with occasional minor corrections for him, or other?

My suggestion is you don't rely on "blank stares" and curt replies to send a message. Just be straightforward with the guy. I would have told him politely and clearly, "The door was closed because we wanted privacy - please respect that." Being in clear, straightforward, and polite in communication, in my experience, will eliminate 95% of these kinds of problems. You get problems when you expect the other person to read your mind.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/29/2012 10:40:52 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

when I say be aggressive, [...]

I got what you meant.

I was suggesting an alternative: being clear.

IWYW,
- Aswad.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/30/2012 2:55:10 AM

sunshinemiss

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You know, there are any number of reasons someone does something that is outside of the cultural norms for a place - being from a different culture, being brought up where this is acceptable despite it not being acceptable in the dominant culture, misunderstanding/misreading cues. Being a jerk or creep is only one of them. I have a friend who frankly is kind of creepy. He just doesn't realize how very uncomfortable people are around him. I've had to explain to him a few things. Don't interrupt people who are deeply focused on someone else. Don't touch strangers on the knee. Don't wink at people who you don't know. Don't talk about being naked with people you don't know. Respect the boundaries people give you. Ask before hugging someone you don't know well. Breath mints are your friends. Take a shower after you exercise. He's not a bad bloke, he just doesn't understand why these things are important. At this point he trusts my judgment and does these things because I tell him they are social norms and he realizes that he doesn't have the radar for it. He seems creepy, but he doesn't mean to. He acts creepy out of friendliness and stops once he finds out that it bothers someone. He has a really good heart. The problem is that people can't find it because they run away from the "creepy" behavior.

Best,
sunshine

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/30/2012 3:23:42 AM

WinsomeDefiance

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In my experience, the 'creepy' ones are usually clueless and harmless. Speaking personally to the guy, while the most respectful thing to do, could end in a lot of he said/creep said and that never goes over well. If you speak to him, I'd do it with the hostess present and I'd do it privately and respectfully so as not to embarrass the guy. Once he has been made aware of his party etiquette mistakes, the responsibility to behave better, is all on his shoulders. Then, if he continues to behave inappropriately, steps can be taken to prevent him from attending future parties.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/30/2012 5:55:28 AM

LadyHibiscus

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WinD is right about most of the creepyguys being harmless and annoying. It's certainly true of the ones that regularly patrolled our events. Use small words, speak clearly. NO. STOP. WE DON'T DO THAT HERE.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/30/2012 7:27:20 AM

OsideGirl

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I guess it depends on what you consider harmless. We were at a club and there was a guy that would follow the submissives around. He would get way too close into the personal space of a scene, touch the submissive and interrupt. He was told it was inappropriate. He interrupted a scene where I was topping a friend to ask if he could spank her. I told him he was being rude and interrupting. The next week, that same submissive had just come off of a heavy scene, standing in the kitchen naked, in the midst of subspace getting a cookie to even out blood sugar. He walked up and touched her butt and privates without asking.

Talking nicely and politely clearly didn't sink in. When the owner of the club found out that he had touched "S", it was the last straw and he was 86'd from the club. Even then he was still denying his behavior.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/30/2012 7:46:01 AM

ProlificNeeds

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Sounds like he wants to get his vouyer on, and does it without the consent of others, or tries to.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/30/2012 10:48:41 AM

Madame4a

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Is this a public-ish type gathering? group members only? invite only?

those things matter...

remember, at ALL play venues... there are a few people who simply wish to watch... and sometimes when its allowed, jerk off -- (argh) ... and while it isn't my cup of tea... its legit.. depending on rules...

so, I'm sure you got the answer already..but yes, speak to the hostess -- as with any party..if someone makes another person uncomfortable.. you speak tothe person throwing the party.. or owner of the space...

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/30/2012 1:43:40 PM

Karmastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

You know, there are any number of reasons someone does something that is outside of the cultural norms for a place - being from a different culture, being brought up where this is acceptable despite it not being acceptable in the dominant culture, misunderstanding/misreading cues. Being a jerk or creep is only one of them. I have a friend who frankly is kind of creepy. He just doesn't realize how very uncomfortable people are around him. I've had to explain to him a few things. Don't interrupt people who are deeply focused on someone else. Don't touch strangers on the knee. Don't wink at people who you don't know. Don't talk about being naked with people you don't know. Respect the boundaries people give you. Ask before hugging someone you don't know well. Breath mints are your friends. Take a shower after you exercise. He's not a bad bloke, he just doesn't understand why these things are important. At this point he trusts my judgment and does these things because I tell him they are social norms and he realizes that he doesn't have the radar for it. He seems creepy, but he doesn't mean to. He acts creepy out of friendliness and stops once he finds out that it bothers someone. He has a really good heart. The problem is that people can't find it because they run away from the "creepy" behavior.

Best,
sunshine

wow, kudos, you're a good friend and good person to do that. your friend is lucky to have you. sounds a bit like aspergers syndrome.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/30/2012 3:24:12 PM

SailingBum

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yea Im with the man up crowd and talk to the person who seems to be offending your senses. Why drag a 3rd party into the he said/ she said thing. You are a grown up act like one. After all one persons creep is another acceptable behavior. The term is to subjective.

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 4/30/2012 3:52:19 PM >

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 4/30/2012 11:29:34 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

wow, kudos, you're a good friend and good person to do that. your friend is lucky to have you. sounds a bit like aspergers syndrome.

Yeah, sunny is ... well... sunny.

Seeing as Ars is an aspie, and I'm kind of in the limbo where they go "sure, if you want it, we'll put it in the journal", I can relate.

Which is kind of the point I've failed to make, too. We've no idea what Steven actually felt, what he meant by "creepy". There's so much body language, set and setting, context and so forth that doesn't come across, that it's impossible to tell whether this is some aspie or the like (lack of certain preconceptions does predispose to coming to appreciate other relationship models and kinks) or whether it's someone that's actually creepy "on the inside", so to speak. If this is just someone that lacks a clue, he's got a golden opportunity to do something good and make a friend for life, or simply to explain his problem and boundaries and then have them respected with no problem.

If, on the other hand, this is a genuine creep, I'm all for Orion's approach.

IWYW,
- Aswad.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 5/1/2012 12:30:49 AM

MasterSlaveLA

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Reason #5,238 why I continue to maintain the Club/Kink-Dom is anything BUT "dominant". Fer fuck's sake, a VANILLA guy (or girl, for that matter) would look the ass-hat square in the face and tell 'em to scram, or things would not fair well for them from that point forward -- but an alleged "Dom" doesn't know what to do?!! Pffft.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 5/1/2012 4:28:18 PM

Aileen1968

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I regularly attend a local monthly spanking party called Scarlet Moons. It's a great party, although it restricts play to impact play only - no whips, no floggers, no fireplay, no needle play, no wax, etc. It's unusual in that bystanders are allowed to heckle sceners good-naturedly and complain that the spanker isn't swinging hard enough, that spankees shouldn't be allowed to keep panties on, etc.

There's one attendee that just gives me creepy vibes. A few months ago I was spanking a lady OTK over panties and he happened by and asked me earnestly and directly "Are you going to spank her bare assed?" I was taken aback and replied, "Excuse me?" He then asked me if I would pull down her panties. I curtly replied, "I'm spanking her", which clarified that I was in charge. He left shortly thereafter.

Friday night, I was about to give a shy woman a spanking and went with her to a bedroom and shut the door. We were doing preliminary chat when she sat up. The creepy fellow had quietly entered the room and closed the door behind him. I explained that she was shy and wanted to be spanked in private. He said, "But I can watch, right?" After a blank stare in response, he got the message and left.

I'm not sure what to do. I'm contemplating speaking to the party hostess, who is very versed in the lifestyle, and asking her to go over etiquette with him. He seems to be getting frightened of me, so I wouldn't be the ideal one to discuss this with him. Also, I realize that some of my issue with him is due to the vibes he gives off, as opposed to any specific actions. Had he, in the first instance, just given me a grin and said, "C'mon! Pull those panties down!", it would have fit right in.

Any suggestions? Speak to the hostess, continue with occasional minor corrections for him, or other?

Tell him point blank to get the fuck away from you.
I have never had a problem telling people who are invading my personal space to get away. And I'm a lowly submissive.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 5/1/2012 6:54:24 PM

searching4mysir

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I have to say, Dark Steven, that this question seems to be out of character for you.

In here you are direct and to the point while remaining polite, however you didn't take the bull by the horns and deal with this guy in the same way you would have in the forums.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 5/1/2012 7:08:40 PM

strangedesire

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Steven, I really, strongly recommend that you speak to the hostess about this gentleman. I wouldn't necessarily ask her to do anything about him, but tell her that you have seen some troubling behaviors and are worried. You are a large and confident man in his fifties who comfortable in the scene and comfortable advocating for himself. Honestly, many folks (especially women) are not able to police their boundaries as well as you can, and new players may not realize that they have a right to ask Creepy Dude to leave them alone. At the very least, the hostess needs to know to keep an eye on this guy.

I'm inclined to by sympathetic to the guy, honestly. He reads as socially challenged, not malicious - he doesn't appear to be targeting vulnerable people for his creepiness - and the social atmosphere of play parties can be hard to read at first. When everything is laughing and joking and talking about your Deepest Secret Kink, it can be hard to remember that there's more to those interactions than sexytimes. I'm guessing that you're less put off by what he's actually done, and more thrown by what he hasn't done: related to you and your partner as fully realized humans.

I was shy once, too. I had a hard time integrating my kinky drives and desires into my vanilla self at first. Hell, I remember my first play party. Awkwardness and shame aren't excuses for transgressing the boundaries of other people, but they can explain bad behavior from folks who are not bad people.

That, or he has a nasty sense of entitlement and wants to use his fellow party-goers as real-time porn. I've met a few of those, too.

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RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? - 5/2/2012 6:14:53 AM

Bhruic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I regularly attend a local monthly spanking party called Scarlet Moons. It's a great party, although it restricts play to impact play only - no whips, no floggers, no fireplay, no needle play, no wax, etc. It's unusual in that bystanders are allowed to heckle sceners good-naturedly and complain that the spanker isn't swinging hard enough, that spankees shouldn't be allowed to keep panties on, etc.

Any suggestions? Speak to the hostess, continue with occasional minor corrections for him, or other?

Part of the problem, as I see it, is this policy of allowing heckling, as you call it.

At the clubs I play at here in Toronto there is an established etiquette everywhere that - aside from watching from a respectful distance - you do not interfere in anyone's scene unless invited to. Perhaps this heckling thing blurs the line of propriety for the unfamiliar and gives him the impression he can do as he likes. As soon as you feel comfortable talking to someone while they are in a scene, you feel engaged and, in a sense, part of the scene. I know I would not find it comfortable to have people talking to me while I was in a scene.

If he seems afraid of you, fine. I would suggest calmly, and in a friendly tone, explaining to him some of the finer points of etiquette in these situations. If he doesn't respond positively to that, then I would ask the hosts to deal with him.

I have had experiences of people intruding on a scene, or hovering like vultures too closely, and I've found they are generally responsive if you just politely hip them to the rules of engagement :)

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