Just a curious question about slave contracts (Full Version)

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littlekitten1 -> Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/2/2012 11:02:34 PM)

I tried searching for this, but I think I do not know which words to use.

Anyway I've been curious about one thing for a while. Slave contracts aren't binding. But is it possible to create a contract that does basically the same thing, or close to, only omitting certain terms and words that make it just "silly?"
Has anyone ever done that? Perhaps a contract that binds people in ways that, even if it's not mentioned, makes them quite owned?

Just for clarification, I don't intend on making use or signing such a contract :p (Id rather have my choices secured)... But just wondering if its possible to make a sneaky version of a slave contract that actually binds. Has anyone ever heard of it?



littlewonder -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/2/2012 11:13:29 PM)

Since slavery is illegal, no. But you could always be declared incompetent and have a guardian appointed to you.

Or you can get married. That's as close as you can get to owning a person as in the traditional sense of a wife being owned by her husband.



Alecta -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/2/2012 11:21:23 PM)

Yes, as long as the contract itself is legal, ie does not contain any clauses that contradict the law of where it is filed. Slave contracts are not colloquially thought binding because slavery is outlawed in most of the world and precedence on the matter is such that a "legally bound" slave from a country that recognises slavery can escape to a place that does not support slavery and claim sanctuary there, as well as pursue legal action under the protection of that country on his/her "owner". It's quite hush.

Kink-friendly lawyers have been known to draw up pre-nups for BDSM couples that operate in effect like a contract when the intention between the couple is also to get married. In certain countries, slave contracts can be thinly disguised as employment contracts and enforced. It is also possible to craft right of attorney contracts that operate on that level.

I assume by "omitting certain terms and words" you are referring to things like "blowjobs every three hours" and the bum-tit-bum dance.

Calling it something else does, however, take the fun out of it for most subs.



littlekitten1 -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/2/2012 11:44:48 PM)

Well im talking more in terms of owning someone. Just unofficially. I guess a better definition would be: A contract so annoying that the other person practically owns you. Im pretty sure such contracts already exist.. Such as debt. The person you're in debt to owns you financially because otherwise you get the law on your tail. Would it be possible to construct a contract consisting of such elements, that in practicality, they are pretty much owned?

But yea I do agree that changing a slave contract in that way takes the fun out of it. Like I said, my intention would never be to give up my rights legally. I'd find that rather constricting and annoying.



Alecta -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 12:12:58 AM)

I took it to mean where the slave is no longer legally allowed to make decisions for themselves that contradict the owner's wishes, whether in regards to themselves, the relationship, or their property, when I first answered but now I'm kindda confused as to what you mean specifically by "owned"?

in a BDSM context, a slave contract is like a collar and its attached set of houserules. It's as constricting as the Master lets it be, and for most subs with one, a comfort and affirmation to their status.



littlekitten1 -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 12:50:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

I took it to mean where the slave is no longer legally allowed to make decisions for themselves that contradict the owner's wishes, whether in regards to themselves, the relationship, or their property, when I first answered but now I'm kindda confused as to what you mean specifically by "owned"?



Well that is what I mean.. Maybe I got confused :p

But when I talk about own... Well.. it doesn't necessarily have to be in the traditional BDSM sense. Just, in a way that truly makes someone unable to disobey since the 'owner' could invoke severe consequences on that person.



Alecta -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 1:12:03 AM)

Right. So yes, like I said, it is very possible with pre-nups and employment/representation contracts and right-of-attorney contracts, just as long as the terms are deemed reasonable and legal under the law you're filing it under.

For example, a pre-nup could be filed to say that the Owner has the right to request a divorce at any point without giving a reason, that the slave should wear its "ring" at all times. that should the couple divorce, the slave will get nothing and the Owner will get everything, or that the slave will continue to support the Owner to a sum of $x/month. People might look at it and go "geez why would you sign that" but the terms in themselves are not illegal per say. If the pre-nup is contested, the Owner might have to prove that it was signed willingly and with the slave's full understanding of the consequences.

There was a case several years back of a "modelling" agency that signed girls to its contract then shipped them off to Japan as showgirls and prostitutes. Their contract was technically legal under contractual law. One-sided, but legal. It stipulated basically that once the girls are represented by them they would defer all professional decisions to the agency, protect the agency's privacy,pose no competition to the agency, that the agency owns their image and likeness, and that they were obligated to take whatever jobs the agency signed them up to. Not, in and of themselves, unusual or illegal terms. Until the girls got to the foreign country and discover that the "modelling" job was as a poledancer, or a lounge hostess, and they became stuck there, at the mercy of the agency.

The thing about contracts, however, is that they require that the Owner has the clout to pursue and enforce the contract in a court of law. No contract is enforceable if you do not take the steps to validate and enforce it.



angelikaJ -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 4:43:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlekitten1

Well im talking more in terms of owning someone. Just unofficially. I guess a better definition would be: A contract so annoying that the other person practically owns you. Im pretty sure such contracts already exist.


Some employment contracts can be like that I imagine.



OsideGirl -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 7:07:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta
slave contracts can be thinly disguised as employment contracts and enforced.

Which requires compensation and taxes.



dollwish -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 8:45:58 AM)

It could be a form of employment contract, like say for a pole dancer or house servant. The unwritten being as important as the written?



DesFIP -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 8:57:18 AM)

Being declared incompetent is damn near impossible. And if you were, you would probably be so ill you couldn't stay out of a nursing home. So you couldn't do the laundry or be having hot monkey sex anyway.

No, there is no way to have a legally binding contract that only puts obligations on one half of the parties. Even if you signed a contract stating he could take all your money, the moment you told the court about what was really going on, the contract would be thrown out.

Now, a contract for a set term that says you provide certain services in exchange for certain monetary benefits is legal. But it can be ended by either party at any time although two weeks notice is usual.

However, if you aren't willing to live up to your promises, then I doubt the presence of a contract is going to change your attitude. At which point your dominant wouldn't want you around if you're no fun to be with.



littlekitten1 -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 9:13:02 AM)

So in conclusion, one can probably only become a true slave to debt then... Or the army :p Depending on how you look at it.
It does seem to make sense that you can only have a contract that lays the responsibility on both parts.


Im just thinking of all those sneaky contracts, where you didn't read it thoroughly, and suddenly you're forced to perform an action you really don't want to. But it is my guess, that that is confined to value only. Or perhaps information.


I was once 'tricked' into paying a full year's submission to some membership thing even though I thought I was out, because I didn't understand the contract well enough. Was quite annoying as there was nothing I could do about it(i tried). x_x



OsideGirl -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 9:13:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dollwish

It could be a form of employment contract, like say for a pole dancer or house servant. The unwritten being as important as the written?


If its employment contract, there has to be compensation and income taxes paid. That said, it could be compensation of $1. But, here's the rub....because it's an employment contract, you can then be sued for sexual harassment if the employee decides they've had enough.



kalikshama -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 10:59:27 AM)

quote:

I was once 'tricked' into paying a full year's submission to some membership thing even though I thought I was out, because I didn't understand the contract well enough. Was quite annoying as there was nothing I could do about it(i tried). x_x


I used to work for a company that did "free trials." We were good about letting customers cancel. Even the less reputable companies will let you cancel if you get a hold of a supervisor and start talking about the BBB or the state's Attorney General. I see you are in Denmark, though.



fucktoyprincess -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 12:04:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlekitten1

But just wondering if its possible to make a sneaky version of a slave contract that actually binds. Has anyone ever heard of it?


There is something in law called "substance over form" which means that courts will look past the "form" of the contract, i.e., the specific words, to the actual intent of the parties to determine what a contract actually means. So my honest opinion is that there really can't be a "sneaky version" of a slave contract.

And remember, if you are talking about actually enforcing a contract, it means there is a dispute over what the contract means and you are in litigation. In which case, if it is to one party's advantage to make the contract unenforceable, that's exactly what their lawyer will do. They will argue it was a contract for slavery and therefore unenforceable by law, regardless of the language in it.

It seems to me that any "contract" for M/s would necessarily not be enforceable in the courts regardless of how carefully one worded it. I think these contracts work only as a promise between the two individuals involved for defining how they would like their relationship to work and to that extent binding on each other only to the extent that each of you is a trustworthy individual. The moment there is a disagreement and one of the M/s couple actually tries to sue under the contract, the other party is going to claim it is an unenforceable contract and I think no court will uphold any type of agreement that it thinks has anything even remotely to do with slavery, even in its BDSM context.

To me, disposition of assets on break-up, pre-nuptials, employment contracts are all protected by law - so if you have a contract that only speaks to those things then, of course, it will be enforceable, but those are not really "slave" contracts by any stretch of the imagination (regardless of how enslaved by my employer I feel). [sm=2cents.gif]






LafayetteLady -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 12:06:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

I was once 'tricked' into paying a full year's submission to some membership thing even though I thought I was out, because I didn't understand the contract well enough. Was quite annoying as there was nothing I could do about it(i tried). x_x


I used to work for a company that did "free trials." We were good about letting customers cancel. Even the less reputable companies will let you cancel if you get a hold of a supervisor and start talking about the BBB or the state's Attorney General. I see you are in Denmark, though.


But I think the true lesson in the above is that someone needs to read an entire contract carefully to avoid being in such a position in the first place.  The contract isn't exactly "sneaky," rather it is hoping that like the OP people won't read the whole thing and will skip over the fine print.



tennisman2388 -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 12:25:59 PM)

I may be naive but I see no need for a contract between consenting adults. If sufficent trust and understanding hasn't been established, no contract will remedy that issue.  



Alecta -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 12:40:11 PM)

Contracts aren't strictly necessary, they're props that help put people in certain frames of mind. Same principle as collars and chains. They aren't necessary between consenting adults either, but we like having them just the same.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 12:50:23 PM)

quote:

blowjobs every three hours" and the bum-tit-bum dance.


The bum-tit dance comes BEFORE the blow job, or at least that's the way it goes down in *this* household.

All puns intended, Chatte



littlewonder -> RE: Just a curious question about slave contracts (5/3/2012 2:11:28 PM)

So basically you want to be forced to obey. hhhmm...most doms I know would tire of that very very quickly....contract or no contract. I'm sure you can find some guy that's willing to do it in the bedroom..but full time? Good luck.





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