RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (Full Version)

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Dom4subssub4doms -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 8:48:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

We're seeing it more and more. The Norway mass murderer was a nationalist who felt threatened because his previously Christian homogeneous society is being "invaded" by Muslims. I've spoken to people from the region, and this isn't a radical sentiment by any means. I.e., we could be seeing a lot more of this, as the economy weakens, and the U.S. empire fades away.


actually to say the terorist was engaging nin radical hought ignores his deeds. Feeling an irrational threat from a tiny minority may not be radical but going on a killing spree is. We are talking about them being afraid of 3 percent of the population taking over. it's a fear whipped up by Atlasshrugged, Jihadwatch and WND with there hate speech. there is no threat of cultural take over for a 3 percent minority




Dom4subssub4doms -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 9:05:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

I don't think FD is in any way, shape, or form trying to claim that illegal immigration is good simply because the minutemen are against it. But the minutemen ARE NOT federal agents, they are not sanctioned to police our borders, they do not have the authority to kill people coming over the border, even if those people are coming over the border illegally. The minutemen are vigilantes and the last time I heard, that was illegal.

You are wrong. Private security firms are not federal agents. Do they have the right to protect property? Minutemen do not kill people. For you the government is God: what is not specifically allowed by the government (although perfectly legal according to the Constitution) is strictly forbidden.  It is very dangerous way of thinking. If it spreads the country will fall like the Soviet Union.
I dotn understand




Real0ne -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 9:19:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

If law enforcement had properly investigated the Right-Wing militia movement years ago - they might have stopped Timothy McVeigh BEFORE he blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma City.

But Right-Wing anti-immigrant vigilantes and militia members and Tea Party members and anyone remotely connected with Right-Wing anti-immigrant vigilantes and militia members and the Tea Party are AMERICAN PATRIOTS and are NEVER domestic terrorists - correct?


quote:

ssfully to burn down my father's church in New Mexico because they believed (incorrectly) that his church was harboring illegal immigrants, because over 50% of his church me



what they need to do is to shoot em dead!

and left-wingers shot twice!

[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/tol-1.jpg[/image]



which is the greater evil?


that little fertilizer bomb was barely enough to break out the windows.

the building was blown from the inside.

bombs were removed from the inside of the building and it was on the NEWS.

Need to clean the wax out cher ears before condeming mcveigh as the lone bomber.

Especially since they have on record middle eastern man that was with him. and unless you want to claim mcveigh planted 4 more bombs inside the building that were so complex they were removed and taken to sandia labs.... imagine that!















Real0ne -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 9:39:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

I don't think FD is in any way, shape, or form trying to claim that illegal immigration is good simply because the minutemen are against it. But the minutemen ARE NOT federal agents, they are not sanctioned to police our borders, they do not have the authority to kill people coming over the border, even if those people are coming over the border illegally. The minutemen are vigilantes and the last time I heard, that was illegal.





thugs for 300;


what is the difference between a hired group of thugs and non-hired group of thugs?

Well except that the hired group of thugs get a free pass for their evil by special dispensation.







Real0ne -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 9:47:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

I don't think FD is in any way, shape, or form trying to claim that illegal immigration is good simply because the minutemen are against it. But the minutemen ARE NOT federal agents, they are not sanctioned to police our borders, they do not have the authority to kill people coming over the border, even if those people are coming over the border illegally. The minutemen are vigilantes and the last time I heard, that was illegal.

You are wrong. Private security firms are not federal agents. Do they have the right to protect property? Minutemen do not kill people. For you the government is God: what is not specifically allowed by the government (although perfectly legal according to the Constitution) is strictly forbidden.  It is very dangerous way of thinking. If it spreads the country will fall like the Soviet Union.



that is because this gubafia operates on a theory of contract overlay/

The constitution formed the jurisdiction for the creation of a sovereign, though a sovereign technically cannot be a fiction. (but this is america!) *we do everything 1/2 assed*

It does not matter who creates the contract the courts, legislature, some asshole sitting in the bully oval pulpit, it then falls under the presumption of state.

In other words, you can find mountains of court cases where they do it today and refuse to look back simply because its the way they have always done it. right wrong indifferent not with standing.

Welcome Neo to the desert of the real



Oh and PSS: there is a letter floating around by justice david irwin to the then sec of state garfield bitching about this very thing, obviously it was ignored.

No one needs to make this shit up, the truth is far more crazy than any fiction I could dream of.





.





RacerJim -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 9:55:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

If law enforcement had properly investigated the Right-Wing militia movement years ago - they might have stopped Timothy McVeigh BEFORE he blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma City.

But Right-Wing anti-immigrant vigilantes and militia members and Tea Party members and anyone remotely connected with Right-Wing anti-immigrant vigilantes and militia members and the Tea Party are AMERICAN PATRIOTS and are NEVER domestic terrorists - correct?


And if all of our national intelligence gathering agencies had properly shared what each of them knew about the radical Islamic terrorist groups after the 1st bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 -- they probably woud have stopped the same radical Islamis terrorist groups BEFORE they destroyed the World Trade Center and part of the Pentagon in 2001.

But Left-Wing anti-FBI, anti-CIA, anti-NSA and anti-military liberals and Democratic Party members and anyone remotely connected with the Clinton administration were AMERICAN PATRIOTS and were [NEVER] responsible for any terrorist attacks on American assets, domesitc or foreign - correct?




Moonhead -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 10:26:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

And if all of our national intelligence gathering agencies had properly shared what each of them knew about the radical Islamic terrorist groups after the 1st bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 -- they probably woud have stopped the same radical Islamis terrorist groups BEFORE they destroyed the World Trade Center and part of the Pentagon in 2001.

But Left-Wing anti-FBI, anti-CIA, anti-NSA and anti-military liberals and Democratic Party members and anyone remotely connected with the Clinton administration were AMERICAN PATRIOTS and were [NEVER] responsible for any terrorist attacks on American assets, domesitc or foreign - correct?

Actually, the al queda demolition programme of 2001 went forwards without interruption from the authorities because the chimp couldn't be bothered following up on the warnings that were left for him that bin Liner was up to something. It had fuck all to with Clinton, beyond the fact that the GOP insisted he couldn't take any action against bin Liner because that would be a distraction from villifying him over getting his cock sucked.




Real0ne -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 10:40:20 AM)

clinton via nazi reno orchestrated the murder of a peaceful religious group in waco texas. The gubafia used flame throws to burn them all alive over an unpaid 200 dollar gun license.

But its ok!

BEcause it was We the People who did it!

This is after all America, land of the free!




Dom4subssub4doms -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 3:39:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

clinton via nazi reno orchestrated the murder of a peaceful religious group in waco texas. The gubafia used flame throws to burn them all alive over an unpaid 200 dollar gun license.

But its ok!

BEcause it was We the People who did it!

This is after all America, land of the free!

You mean the peaceful group that didnt honor a legal search warrent and instead had an armed stand off with the feds and eventually died when their illegal ammo dump caught fire? Odd to call a group with that kind of hardware a peaceful religous group.




Fellow -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 3:44:49 PM)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

I don't think FD is in any way, shape, or form trying to claim that illegal immigration is good simply because the minutemen are against it. But the minutemen ARE NOT federal agents, they are not sanctioned to police our borders, they do not have the authority to kill people coming over the border, even if those people are coming over the border illegally. The minutemen are vigilantes and the last time I heard, that was illegal.


You are wrong. Private security firms are not federal agents. Do they have the right to protect property? Minutemen do not kill people. For you the government is God: what is not specifically allowed by the government (although perfectly legal according to the Constitution) is strictly forbidden. It is very dangerous way of thinking. If it spreads the country will fall like the Soviet Union.

I dotn understand



I am just saying the Minutemen are patriots who try to solve the problem. For them the problem is massive illegal immigration plus the government inaction and the government corruption. So instead of watching football, Kardashians and so forth on TV they go out and put their skills to work. At the same time the government is busy trading guns and other military equipment with Mexican mafia. How can people rely on the government these days anyway? The president works for Goldman Sachs and the Congress approval rating has never been so low? The government does not work for you, remember 9/11 [killing ~3000 its own people]. The last should have opened many eyes. Soviet Union fell because the government was not able to solve the mounting problems any more. There was no significant revolution from the masses below. Soviets were fully neutered, they had no means left to survive without the government, so the whole system collapsed. The same could happen to the US. The similar scenario is not so low probability any more.
The question I asked before was if people think there is a problem with illegal border crossing?  Many think the laws prohibiting free movement across the border are wrong and discriminatory.





Dom4subssub4doms -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 3:58:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

If law enforcement had properly investigated the Right-Wing militia movement years ago - they might have stopped Timothy McVeigh BEFORE he blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma City.

But Right-Wing anti-immigrant vigilantes and militia members and Tea Party members and anyone remotely connected with Right-Wing anti-immigrant vigilantes and militia members and the Tea Party are AMERICAN PATRIOTS and are NEVER domestic terrorists - correct?


And if all of our national intelligence gathering agencies had properly shared what each of them knew about the radical Islamic terrorist groups after the 1st bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 -- they probably woud have stopped the same radical Islamis terrorist groups BEFORE they destroyed the World Trade Center and part of the Pentagon in 2001.

But Left-Wing anti-FBI, anti-CIA, anti-NSA and anti-military liberals and Democratic Party members and anyone remotely connected with the Clinton administration were AMERICAN PATRIOTS and were [NEVER] responsible for any terrorist attacks on American assets, domesitc or foreign - correct?
actually that wall came about because Johnson and Nixon employed the CIA in doemstic spying operations against US citizens and Nixon employed them in relation to Watergate actions for politcal purposes. The idea an attack 9 months after Clinton left office is his fault is Ludicrous. You no doubt blame Obama for the job losses 3 months after he took oiffice right under the same thinking?. if the attacks had been in April I'd agree with laying it at Clintons feet. the thing is if you remember the priority was getting the non working missile defense system fundd and in place not nitty gritty terror and the attavle were 9 mouth post Clinton




Dom4subssub4doms -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 4:10:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

I don't think FD is in any way, shape, or form trying to claim that illegal immigration is good simply because the minutemen are against it. But the minutemen ARE NOT federal agents, they are not sanctioned to police our borders, they do not have the authority to kill people coming over the border, even if those people are coming over the border illegally. The minutemen are vigilantes and the last time I heard, that was illegal.


You are wrong. Private security firms are not federal agents. Do they have the right to protect property? Minutemen do not kill people. For you the government is God: what is not specifically allowed by the government (although perfectly legal according to the Constitution) is strictly forbidden. It is very dangerous way of thinking. If it spreads the country will fall like the Soviet Union.

I dotn understand



I am just saying the Minutemen are patriots who try to solve the problem. For them the problem is massive illegal immigration plus the government inaction and the government corruption. So instead of watching football, Kardashians and so forth on TV they go out and put their skills to work. At the same time the government is busy trading guns and other military equipment with Mexican mafia. How can people rely on the government these days anyway? The president works for Goldman Sachs and the Congress approval rating has never been so low? The government does not work for you, remember 9/11 [killing ~3000 its own people]. The last should have opened many eyes. Soviet Union fell because the government was not able to solve the mounting problems any more. There was no significant revolution from the masses below. Soviets were fully neutered, they had no means left to survive without the government, so the whole system collapsed. The same could happen to the US. The similar scenario is not so low probability any more.
The question I asked before was if people think there is a problem with illegal border crossing?  Many think the laws prohibiting free movement across the border are wrong and discriminatory.



When I got to the 911 truther stuff I realized there isnt apoint to disagreeing facts have little effect on anyone who can maintauin the constuct we did that oursleves. the soviet union. Goldmann is quite peeved abot the President banking regulation and consumer watch dog. You paint a group with a huge racist white supremacist following as patriotic???




Fightdirecto -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 4:34:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow
I am just saying the Minutemen are patriots who try to solve the problem. For them the problem is massive illegal immigration plus the government inaction and the government corruption. So instead of watching football, Kardashians and so forth on TV they go out and put their skills to work.

Just one example of patriotic American Minutemen "trying to solve the problem" and "putting their skills to work":

Plotted deadly home invasion - Minuteman leader gets death sentence for killing girl and dad

quote:

A Washington state resident who once bragged she was going to take her Minutemen group to the “next level” was sentenced to death Tuesday for plotting a deadly home invasion that took the life of a 9-year-old Arivaca girl and her father.

A Pima County jury deliberated four hours over two days before deciding Shawna Forde, 43, should join the other two women on Arizona’s death row.

Forde, 43, was convicted Feb. 14 of first-degree murder in the May 30, 2009, deaths of Raul Junior Flores, 29, and Brisenia Flores, 9, and of attempted first-degree murder in the shooting of Gina Gonzalez, Flores’ wife and Brisenia’s mother.

Jurors were told Forde needed money for her border protection group, Minutemen American Defense, and decided to rob drug smugglers near the border.

Gonzalez testified her husband opened the door of their home to a man and a woman claiming to be law enforcement officers looking for fugitives.

The man opened fire on the couple when Junior Flores questioned their story and their 9-year-old daughter was shot at point-blank range while pleading for her life, Gonzalez told jurors.

A handful of inexpensive jewelry was later found in Forde’s possession...

Forde stole Gonzalez’ jewelry and then, upon learning Gonzalez was still alive, turned to Bush and yelled, “Hey! She’s still alive! Get back in there and take care of her!” Unklesbay said.

Days after the slayings, she told an FBI informant they had more targets, Unklesbay said.

“That’s the moral, reasoned response Shawna Forde had after Brisenia had two shots put in her head,” Unklesbay said.

BTW: RAUL JUNIOR FLORES, HIS 9-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER BRISENIA FLORES AND BRISENA'S MOTHER GINA GONZALEZ WERE ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS and neither Raul Flore or Gina Gonzalez were drug smugglers. Of course, we can't be sure that 9-year-old Brisenia wasn't a drug dealer. [;)]

Yep, Just an example of patriotic American Minutemen "trying to solve the problem" by killing American citizens and and "putting their skills to work" robbing their dead bodies to finance their Minuteman group.

To paraphrase the well-known statement from German pastor Martin Niemöller, written while he was a prisoner in the Gestapo concentration camp at Dachau:

First the Minutemen came for the illegal immigrants - and I said nothing because I wasn't an illegal immigrant.

Then the Minutemen came for my Hispanic neighbors who were American citizens - and I said nothing because I was Caucasian.

Then the Minutemen came for the newspaper editor who had written an editorial condemning vigilante violence - and I said nothing because I get all the news I need by watching Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity on Fox and by listening to Rush Limbaugh on my radio.

And then the Minutemen came for me because someone had told them I had money in my house and they needed that money to finance their Minuteman activities - and the police arrived to take my bullet-riddled body to the morgue.




Real0ne -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 9:11:20 PM)

Answer me!

What about these thugs?

Not one prosecution.

What makes these militia people any more evil then these government murderers.

This was straight up massacre by the US Gubafia!


Waco - Rules of Engagement [full]

anyone who can stomach watching this whole thing without puking good luck.

this is enough to make me sick.


Where are the good people? Whats the greater EVIL, some small fringe group with a name that you can attack militia groups at large or the US Gubafia murdering its own citizens?

Oh and for those who want to stand up and be PROUD PATRIOTS here are the flir tapes PROVING they burned those people alive!


Waco FLIR imaging Pt.2



Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing





hlen5 -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/5/2012 10:52:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing




What are You doing, RO?




Real0ne -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/6/2012 3:38:48 AM)

Pointing out on a scale of 1 - 10 what should have been the painfully obvious.


[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/pot-kettle-black.jpg[/image]



What are you doing?




tweakabelle -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/6/2012 4:06:57 AM)

Perhaps the title of this thread should have been: ' Conspiracy Theories Can Only Appeal When People Stop Thinking'

Though to be honest, there doesn't appear to be much doubt about the nature of the Minutemen and their ilk - a bunch of heavily armed demented far right murderous thugs (with the corpses to prove it [see post 33]) who are wrapping themselves in the flag and patriotism purely as an avenue to power. Nothing original about that - Hitler laid out the blueprint in Germany in the 30s and we all know how that turned out, don't we?

Kind of like a Westboro Baptist Church armed with real guns and a political ideology instead of the Bible and a faux religion.




Fightdirecto -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/6/2012 5:15:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing

What are You doing, RO?

Heavy-handedly implying that the actions of Federal Law Enforcement at Waco, Texas in 1993 somehow justify the actions of the Minutemen vigilantes 19 years later.

David Koresh and his followers get in a firefight with Federal Law Enforcement (using illegally obtained .50 caliber sniper rifles) - a fire breaks out at Koresh's compound (some say started by Federal Law Enforcement, some of Koresh's own followers who survived say by Koresh himself)- so this justifies people like Shawna Forde invading the home of American citizens, killing a 9-year-old girl and her father and severely wounding the girl's mother, so that they could get money to continue their Minuteman activities.

A warped attempt at false equivilency...




vincentML -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/6/2012 6:02:54 AM)

~FR~

Responding to the OP . . . . HATE is not a crime in the USA. Wearing a uniform [other than impersonating a law officer] is not a crime. Protected Speech. Like it or not. It becomes a crime when there is a conspiracy to commit violent action.




Fightdirecto -> RE: An Evil That Can Only Flourish Where Good People Do Nothing (5/6/2012 7:27:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Responding to the OP . . . . HATE is not a crime in the USA. Wearing a uniform [other than impersonating a law officer] is not a crime. Protected Speech. Like it or not. It becomes a crime when there is a conspiracy to commit violent action.

Agreed. Bigoted speech is still protected speech.

However, since local, state and federal law enforcement investigates radical anachist groups and radical Islamist groups to forestall conspiracies to commit violent action and even uses "sting" operations to arrest and convict radical anarchist and radical Islamist groups (such as the recent incident in Cleveland) - why are they not doing the same with radical Right groups such as the Minuteman vigilantes? Send in an undercover agent, and if the group discusses commiting a crime, offer them defective weapons or inert explosives to commit that crime with as they did in the Cleveland anarchist case, arrest them when they go to the scene of the proposed crime, and give them jail time.

The Minuteman vigilante groups are no different than the Cleveland, Ohio anarchists or a group of radical Islamists meeting in a mosque in Jersey City, New Jersey - and they should be treated exactly the same way.




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