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RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/3/2012 9:05:29 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I have said it before in these forums and I will say again (yes, I will) gay Republicans are voting AGAINST self-interest. And gay Republicans who actually work on Romney's campaign - what - is there even a word for that?




Yes. The word you are looking for is "free." Got a problem with that?

Some people, and I suspect this will be scandalous heresy to you, don't see the world through a single prism, and sometimes even set their personal interest aside, and work for a much larger good.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/4/2012 1:59:22 AM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Though the bill has just passed the Senate, House Republicans drafted their own version that excludes protections for gay and transgender, immigrant, and tribal issues, ignoring groups at a high risk of becoming victims of domestic violence and crime.


On what logical and moral bases are those groups to be excluded? I'd be fascinated to see what kind of rationale has been put together.


Not likely to vote for them, who needs a moral or even logical base for this....

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/4/2012 3:05:44 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

That's the real-world impact of voting against the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act.


well why dont we get a court system that works for us rather then the gubafia with one size fits all statutes?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/4/2012 3:06:20 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/4/2012 8:12:56 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I have said it before in these forums and I will say again (yes, I will) gay Republicans are voting AGAINST self-interest. And gay Republicans who actually work on Romney's campaign - what - is there even a word for that?




Yes. The word you are looking for is "free." Got a problem with that?

Some people, and I suspect this will be scandalous heresy to you, don't see the world through a single prism, and sometimes even set their personal interest aside, and work for a much larger good.


Yes, they are free to work against their self-interest. If a gay man doesn't care about his own rights that is his prerogative, of course. But it is against self-interest. If someone actually works AGAINST their own freedom what does this say about what they think about "free". Obviously, ultimately, being free to practice their sexuality and have the same protections as others does NOT matter to them.

So I am not saying they can't operate against self-interest. I'm not saying they aren't free to do whatever they want. I think the word I was looking for was "stupid". As my mother always said, "stupid is as stupid does".

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 5/4/2012 8:13:11 AM >

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RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/4/2012 9:25:10 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I have said it before in these forums and I will say again (yes, I will) gay Republicans are voting AGAINST self-interest. And gay Republicans who actually work on Romney's campaign - what - is there even a word for that?




Yes. The word you are looking for is "free." Got a problem with that?

Some people, and I suspect this will be scandalous heresy to you, don't see the world through a single prism, and sometimes even set their personal interest aside, and work for a much larger good.


So when the conservatives decide to eliminate not just gay rights but gays themselves (as they have done historically and even today in other parts of the world), I guess the gay Republicans will just be on board with that "for the greater good". Tremendous sacrifice, that.


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/5/2012 8:12:47 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I have said it before in these forums and I will say again (yes, I will) gay Republicans are voting AGAINST self-interest. And gay Republicans who actually work on Romney's campaign - what - is there even a word for that?


I think it's some sort of humiliation fetish.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/5/2012 9:34:31 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dom4subssub4doms
same reason a gay advisor got forced out in the ARTomney campaign, there is a small vocal powerful minority who dontoppose gay marriage they oppose any idea of equal proetection for somem groups


I don't think it's that small.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/5/2012 7:18:41 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I have said it before in these forums and I will say again (yes, I will) gay Republicans are voting AGAINST self-interest. And gay Republicans who actually work on Romney's campaign - what - is there even a word for that?




Yes. The word you are looking for is "free." Got a problem with that?

Some people, and I suspect this will be scandalous heresy to you, don't see the world through a single prism, and sometimes even set their personal interest aside, and work for a much larger good.


Yes, they are free to work against their self-interest. If a gay man doesn't care about his own rights that is his prerogative, of course. But it is against self-interest. If someone actually works AGAINST their own freedom what does this say about what they think about "free". Obviously, ultimately, being free to practice their sexuality and have the same protections as others does NOT matter to them.

So I am not saying they can't operate against self-interest. I'm not saying they aren't free to do whatever they want. I think the word I was looking for was "stupid". As my mother always said, "stupid is as stupid does".


Well if you feel I am stupid because gay rights is not the only issue I am concerned with, I guess I will just have to live with that.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/5/2012 9:02:08 PM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


Well if you feel I am stupid because gay rights is not the only issue I am concerned with, I guess I will just have to live with that.

Please excuse me if I misunderstand, but I was under the impression that "enlightened self-interest" was highly regarded by people on the conservative side of politics. While of course you are free to adopt any position you see fit, your position seems to be in direct conflict with that dictum.

OTOH, if you are putting the greater good above your own interests, isn't this an inherently "liberal" position? Ayn Rand would be having conniptions in her grave at that one.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/5/2012 9:05:23 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/6/2012 4:20:33 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


Well if you feel I am stupid because gay rights is not the only issue I am concerned with, I guess I will just have to live with that.

Please excuse me if I misunderstand, but I was under the impression that "enlightened self-interest" was highly regarded by people on the conservative side of politics. While of course you are free to adopt any position you see fit, your position seems to be in direct conflict with that dictum.

OTOH, if you are putting the greater good above your own interests, isn't this an inherently "liberal" position? Ayn Rand would be having conniptions in her grave at that one.


I guess that shows that you can't paint everyone with the same brush based on the side of the fence they are on, no matter how hard you try. There are homophobes on both sides.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/6/2012 4:50:44 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

I guess that shows that you can't paint everyone with the same brush based on the side of the fence they are on, no matter how hard you try


I'm happy to discover nuance and diversity where ever they may be. I wasn't seeking to turn this into a left vs right thing, I was hoping to understand your position and thinking in a little more depth. Alas I feel none the wiser.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/6/2012 4:53:57 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/6/2012 5:21:40 AM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


Well if you feel I am stupid because gay rights is not the only issue I am concerned with, I guess I will just have to live with that.

Please excuse me if I misunderstand, but I was under the impression that "enlightened self-interest" was highly regarded by people on the conservative side of politics. While of course you are free to adopt any position you see fit, your position seems to be in direct conflict with that dictum.

OTOH, if you are putting the greater good above your own interests, isn't this an inherently "liberal" position? Ayn Rand would be having conniptions in her grave at that one.


You state the you were under the impression that "enlightened self-interest" is highly regarded by the right and putting the greater good is inherently liberal and then you claim you aren't trying to turn this into a left vs right thing. Yea right, now pull the other one.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/6/2012 5:36:48 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

I guess that shows that you can't paint everyone with the same brush based on the side of the fence they are on, no matter how hard you try


I'm happy to discover nuance and diversity where ever they may be. I wasn't seeking to turn this into a left vs right thing, I was hoping to understand your position and thinking in a little more depth. Alas I feel none the wiser.


You might be interested in the Log Cabin Republicans, a group who attached themselves to the Republican Party in order to seek equal rights for LGBT Americans. They have not been very successful in changing the hearts and minds of the Right, especially during this time of Fundamentalist ascendency. Points for effort but they seem to be fighting a hopeless battle.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/8/2012 7:28:30 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Well if you feel I am stupid because gay rights is not the only issue I am concerned with, I guess I will just have to live with that.


I would hope that you care about more than one issue but that's not the same as supporting a party that is so very much against you.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/9/2012 4:20:20 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I have said it before in these forums and I will say again (yes, I will) gay Republicans are voting AGAINST self-interest. And gay Republicans who actually work on Romney's campaign - what - is there even a word for that?


I think it's some sort of humiliation fetish.

That's not just the gay Republicans, though. It's all the Republicans who aren't making enough a year to benefit from the top level income tax cuts, for a start.
(Which I'd imagine is almost all of them outside of the Senate apart from a few state governors and quite a few lobbyists.)

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/9/2012 6:42:46 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

It passed the senate last week I believe?
But now the repubs are bringing out their own version
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2012/05/vawa.html

Though the bill has just passed the Senate, House Republicans drafted their own version that excludes protections for gay and transgender, immigrant, and tribal issues, ignoring groups at a high risk of becoming victims of domestic violence and crime.

Public support for VAWA has been unwavering and close to two decades after passage, its provisions have proved life-changing for many Americans.
SO altho the senate passed the reauthorisation they want to exclude certain groups?
Fucked up assholes.


Tribal? So they want to deny the Native Americans, who were here first, whose land our ancestors stole, protection against domestic violence. My guess is they will try to defend their position by claiming they don't want taxes going toward assistance for illegal immigrants. Stupid morons should've thought about that before they included Native Americans.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/9/2012 7:37:10 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dom4subssub4doms


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Though the bill has just passed the Senate, House Republicans drafted their own version that excludes protections for gay and transgender, immigrant, and tribal issues, ignoring groups at a high risk of becoming victims of domestic violence and crime.


On what logical and moral bases are those groups to be excluded? I'd be fascinated to see what kind of rationale has been put together.

same reason a gay advisor got forced out in the ARTomney campaign, there is a small vocal powerful minority who dontoppose gay marriage they oppose any idea of equal proetection for somem groups


I have said it before in these forums and I will say again (yes, I will) gay Republicans are voting AGAINST self-interest. And gay Republicans who actually work on Romney's campaign - what - is there even a word for that?


Masochistic.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Violence Against Women Act.31 - 5/9/2012 8:02:17 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Or stupid, perhaps?

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Profile   Post #: 38
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